Does God Want Us To Exist?

There are things in life too absurd to contemplate yet we think about it everyday. There are alot of contradictions to our concepts of life and one of them is the reason behind God's will. when he created us, did he want us to exist in the first place or did it just happen instantly (out of control). Im wandering why are we the only existing entity that experiences death while angels and demons do not.

and as a race why do some of us contemplate suicide which is the opposite of existence, isn't it? how can our essence be so corrupted and deluded to want to end itself or is it just a means of ascension (in their mind).

so finally, God could've implanted in us this absurd concept so we have a limit to our existence and maybe someday the apocalypse might come to us in the form of mass suicide.

Concerning the Afterlife, religious people view heaven as eternal which is odd to me because why would God let humans live forever when the universe and everything else isnt eternal. even God isnt eternal himself since there is a mention of time in his world. and why would God want us when we already achieved our purpose (whatever it may be).




[edit on 7-5-2008 by DuneKnight]

reply to post by DuneKnight


Hi DuneKnight,

Very interesting question. You mention 'God's will' when he created us, did he want us to exist in the first place?

Firstly, if God created us and did not want us to exist in the first place, would that not be a 'mistake' on behalf of the creator? Do God-like creators make mistakes? Does that make God the evil scientist and us his monster creation intent on destroying ourselves?

Why is it that the Earth is in perfect naturalistic balance, albeit, without the protruding footprints of us humans? Take Humans out of life's equation, would it go on forever, or would something simply take our place?

I'm not being judgemental with regards your question, just trying to justify my own points.

If God did create humans, it is possible that he / she / it left us to our own devices, to grow, learn, develop, fight, re-create, die, all by ourselves. If so, what is the point of life? It does not matter if we choose to fight and a country defeats the rest of the world - we simply loose ourselves rather than create a new self.

With regards to suicide, if it is God's will to create us, it is within our intelligence to destroy ourselves. Such intelligence gave us the edge over all other species on this planet. The ability to think, learn and analyse (I.e. use our brain). A person takes their own life due to various internal and external factors. Why should God intervene if a person takes his or her own life if they feel it is not going their way – is there a ‘way’ we should live that satisfies both ourselves and God? What about those babies that died (and still die) of famine throughout Africa and South Asia? Was that God’s will or just life’s lottery that God gave us? Do we not control such a lottery?

With regards God - was there, is there? I doubt the religious take on our existence - but still want to know the purpose of it. Is there a purpose to our life or is this just an exercise in how to completely f*** it all up!!

Therefore, I think the question should be - do we want ourselves to exist??

Just me thinking out loud. (does'nt answer your question though)!

S&F

Brei.

reply to post by DuneKnight


The issue I have is why did he make us in the first place? So we can worship him? If he's a perfect being, why does he want or need anything? Also, by making us, he guaranteed that some people will follow satan - As he doesn't make mistakes (being infallible, etc.), he must have meant to do that.

The whole thing doesn't make much sense if you look at it. It all seems like a bunch of stories cobbled together to make sense of a daunting universe, and to give moral guidance at the same time. It's a shame people take the book literally.

First: God made us to have fellowship with him for his pleasure, he created the universe for us to enjoy. Worship is intimacy with God much like we experience intamacy naturally, only this is how its done supernaturally.

Second: Our current state is a product of Sin, what it really is, is sorta like a virus in our programming in lamens terms. Sin entered through adam and because of that Sin is what causes the evil in this world through men and demons. The only cure is to be reborn, God has to destroy the old spirit and create a new one. Even after we're born again we still have to keep our minds in check and battle our flesh until we are given new bodies.

Thirdly: Major scientists across the globe believe the universe to be infinite. We can't put a number on it, and evidence assumes the universe is getting bigger and bigger every second.


Fourthly: God doesn't exist in time, he exists in all time meaning he's in the past,present and the future. yes its hard to wrap our heads around that but its the truth. i like to think of it like a wagon wheel God is the hub and the wheel is time. lastly, God has always existed, he has never had a beginning, has always been and always will be.



Keeper

Originally posted by dave420
reply to post by DuneKnight

 

The issue I have is why did he make us in the first place? So we can worship him? If he's a perfect being, why does he want or need anything? Also, by making us, he guaranteed that some people will follow satan - As he doesn't make mistakes (being infallible, etc.), he must have meant to do that.

The whole thing doesn't make much sense if you look at it. It all seems like a bunch of stories cobbled together to make sense of a daunting universe, and to give moral guidance at the same time. It's a shame people take the book literally.

Don't understand your issue, and I actually feel sorry for you for being so vain regarding God.
Maybe he's made a whole crapload of societies all over the universe and we're the only ones that f'ed up? Also, I think if He is the alpha and omega, the end all be all, then he has a right to want or need or demand, or just end our pathetic little lives if he wanted to.

reply to post by DuneKnight



Why are you asking other people these questions? Why do do you give your authority away? If you believe in God ask God this?

This says it all. I can't write it more clearly than this clip says.

**Warning Explicit Comments**





[edit on 5/10/2008 by whatukno]

wow you guys are all turning against me, its not my fault that the thread was moved. my arguments are purely philosophical and hypothetical. but more so I put myself in God's shoes and realized that I don't have to care about these humans, I'm not obligated to. and whether God wants us to exist well is absurd also in a way since God can do anything he imagines so our un-existence can be a whim if God just engenders it. But what if God doesn't want us to exist but is comlied to let us exist at the same time due to some other factor.

And while we are at why is worship so vital, it will only be important to God if he were human. the need to be worshiped is a human thing, even though the idea of God has always been attached to the idea of worship. though all this doesn't make much sense.

I didn't turn against you. I turned towards you. I don't have the answer to your question, and neither does John Doe or Jane Doe even. Only you can answer these kinds of questions.

well thanks for nothing you cycloptic triangle thingy.

I'm trying to assess the situation here through God's eyes. maybe I'm wrong maybe God doesn't even know that we exist. too bad for us

[edit on 10-5-2008 by DuneKnight]

Does God Want Us To Exist?

No...He created us because He wants us dead!

too bad for us

If you say so

Well since we do exist then it's like duh....

OF COURSE HE DOES

If he didn't he'd flood the earth again. But he promised to not do that again.

Ah, yes, yes, DuneKnight, many questions. Good. What makes sense to me is that God is like a big pile of bread dough and we're like little bits of that dough taken off to grow into our own bread.
I no longer view God as separate from humanity. God is not a god "out there" to be worshiped or direct us; that is what humans have thought through the ages, except for the humans like Jesus or the Buddha or others from other cultures. We are made in the image of God, the Kingdom of Heaven is within. We are God experiencing this physical world. That was a concept hard to understand for our ancestors.

As humans we do bad things to other humans, to ourselves. This existence is hard for far too many. We can do this, when we ignore the "Kingdom of God" is in us. We look "outside" ourselves for "salvation"; we need to look inward. We need to forgive ourselves, as well as others. We need to love ourselves, as well as our "enemies". When we do harm, we forget that we can be better than that.

okey im sensing that people here are looking forward to a group prayer or something. yeah that faith, spirituality forum gotta be the weirdest forum on ATS. My thread was moved here so I'm not really sure how to understand you guys, no one is giving a clear answer. My questions of God are speculative but can you refute them. Is there any evidence of God caring about us and please no stories from any religious books.

reply to post by DuneKnight


sure G-D wants us to exist otherwise They wouldn't have gone to all the trouble we cause Them so far----ever since our first parent's told Them to butt out of their/our lives(genesis3)

G-D wants us to grow to maturity just like any parent hopes for their children---to grow up out of the baby stages and give up on the temper tantrums---crapping in our own pants etc.and making a general nuisance of ourselves for others to endure and hopefully not ending up in a prison or on death row.

once we get to the point where we could be trusted to not "be a mad max"that would wreck dads new caddi or rolls royce or want to be the next hitler/satan we get to go on to become G-D's-------if i am reading the scriptures correctly---which i think i am------the humans that reject the offer of eternal life as a G-D only available thru the Messiah(acts4:12)* in effect suicide themselves---hopefully in the end most will go along with G-D's plans for us and give up on satans plans for us which is eternal death

* notice i said thru the Messiah-----not thru a bunch of bickering disobedient to G-D religious organizations/synagogues/assemblies or mosques or temples etc.

reply to post by dave420


Hi there.

The issue I have is why did he make us in the first place? So we can worship him? If he's a perfect being, why does he want or need anything?

"The issue I have is". Do you really mean this? If so, I hope the answer, which is both straight-forward and very profound, will open up a new door in your life.

There is no shortage of logic in your question. But truth goes beyond logic into the realm of beauty:

He is, always has been, and always will be perfect, lacking in nothing and knowing nothing but sublime bliss far beyond man's wildest dreams. Why did he create us then? To share the inexpressible bliss. Why would he want to? L o v e.

By making us in his own image he gave us the capacity to experience the very essence of his being: love.

Can you see that in this light worship, far from being some kind of sycophantic servitude, is true, heartfelt adoration.

There was a moment in time when the bliss that God has enjoyed throughout eternity was interrupted. When his unique, beloved Son was hanging on a cross. Now what on earth motivated him to allow that?..

you totally missed the point, including yahn goodey who quoted religious texts which i said not to. now i have to play it your way and try and make my point in a way you guys would understand

here is my simple question: Does God love to see us in pain?
no not for entertainment of course but out of necessity.

or is God just punishing us so we can learn from our mistakes?

but why would God want humans to be better beings, werent the devils stronger beings who threatened God, then maybe God is lessening our potential and making us more inferior by 'dehumanizing' us. you know some people do hate their own creation so the same thing here can apply.