Disappearing threads... again

OK, I've seen this on a couple of occasions, but this last one is simply ridiculous. So, I will ask this very politely and calmly...

What happened to this thread?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

To clarify matters, this is the thread in which several people described their encounters with government agents. The same agents I described as "provocateur agents". Does that term ring any bells with people in charge?

The thread is no longer visible in personal profile either, so there is absolutely no doubt that it has been completely removed from the site.

I don't want to direct my question just at the site owners. If they received a letter from NSA (the top of the list of my suspects at this time) they are in no position, and I repeat, in no position whatsoever, to even admit of receiving such a letter. Unless they wish to be charged for breaking the national "security" laws ("security"? what a joke), or even imprisoned for unspecified amount of time. It is how the system works, and I'm very aware of it.

Therefore...

I will politely ask the responsible parties outiside of ATS (NSA, I'm looking in your direction right now) what happened to that thread?

And to prevent some stupid questions from even being formulated...

Of course I don't expect any response. Responding to "lowly peasants" is not how the system works.

What I do expect is explanation (the one that makes sense, that is), not excuses.

I am wiling to give you people two days (48 hours for those within NSA uncapable of doing the math). I am ready to forget about this (second, on completely different site(!)) stupid attempt at hiding the truth. I will even forgive you, if it makes any difference to you.

If I don't get satisfying explanation within 48 hours, then you will have to learn to live in your sorry little secret world without any help from outside. Whatsoever. You will be completely on your own, and trust me, that is the worst thing that can happen to you right now.

From now on, no more "mister-nice-guy-giving-you-the-secrets".

This is The Time to Choose.

Choose wisely.

P.S.
Oh, yes... One more thing... Deleting this thread will be taken as a very clear "explanation" in its own right.

Was the thread against the T&C of the site? Sometimes threads that violate the rules are indeed shut down.

This is the most likely cause. I have had threads closed and trashed because they violated the rules.

I am sure that there is a very good reason for the thread your questioning to have been removed. It's not a decision that is made lightly but one that does happen sometimes.

The Mods and Admin of this site do this for various reasons. One is to protect the site from being sued others may include remarks or pictures in the posts that would cause this site to be filtered by net nannies. Thats a reason that a thread could get shut down.

Welcome to ATS blah blah blah there trying to conceal the truth.

That's what i hear them saying already lol !

Take care.

Regards
Lee




[edit on 5-5-2008 by h3akalee]

reply to post by elendal


Who the hell are you to start throwing ultimatums around?

Mr Nice Guy Giving Us The Secrets? Pathetic.

Originally posted by elendal
What happened to this thread?
www.abovetopsecret.com...
To clarify matters, this is the thread in which several people described their encounters with government agents. The same agents I described as "provocateur agents". Does that term ring any bells with people in charge?

I trashed the thread because the thread author recently replied and clearly showed he was making up the entire story that started the thread. As such, it seemed prudent to remove a thread that was authored by someone who was obviously playing games.

That being the case, you're more than welcome to initiate a new thread on the types of experiences you mention, and if you need to do so from a post you created within the now-trashed thread, let me know and it can be retrieved for you.



Nothing mysterious... just game-playing by the thread author.

Originally posted by Irma
reply to post by elendal

 

Who the hell are you to start throwing ultimatums around?

And who you might be?

No, please don't answer with a flaming war. I've seen that before. I'm interested, though, to see how you'll respond to my question...

So, who are you?

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by elendal
What happened to this thread?
www.abovetopsecret.com...
To clarify matters, this is the thread in which several people described their encounters with government agents. The same agents I described as "provocateur agents". Does that term ring any bells with people in charge?

I trashed the thread because the thread author recently replied and clearly showed he was making up the entire story that started the thread. As such, it seemed prudent to remove a thread that was authored by someone who was obviously playing games.

[
Why delete it entirely. Why not post a note at the top of the OP like I've seen before that it is a *HOAX* or *JOKE*

It looks bad when you delete threads.

Can you bring it back from the dead and lock it at least?

Nothing mysterious... just game-playing by the thread author.

It wasn't mysterious before BUT NOW it is!

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
I trashed the thread because the thread author recently replied and clearly showed he was making up the entire story that started the thread. As such, it seemed prudent to remove a thread that was authored by someone who was obviously playing games.

Let me see if I get this right...

You trashed a perfectly good thread because OP was accused of lying? And with (presumably, at best) lying OP, you also trashed other people's responses to his claims, collaborating his story?

Wait a minute... There's something very wrong with this picture.

How many threads have I seen around here that were being labeled as [HOAX]? What made this particular thread so different from those, that it had to be trashed?

I am glad, though, to receive a response from a site owner stating that he trashed the thread himself. That certainly narrows down the possibilities.

And what about the whole NSA internet and telephone spying evidence that was presented in that thread? Was that a [HOAX] as well? Was I [HOAX]-ing when I spoke of that? Were others hoaxing when they spoke of their own experiences? Maybe you are assuming they were, and I'm assuming they weren't. We are both assuming, aren't we?

This is your site, and you are entitled to do with it whatever you wish. I am not questioning your rights here. I am questioning your motives.

Since you've been so polite to offer retrieving lost posts, how about retrieving all the posts except OP's from that thread? If OP is guilty as you seem to insinuate (I have no idea whether he is or is not, but neither have you, do you?), why not retrieve the whole thread and just remove all of OP's posts as violations of T&C?

Does that sound OK to you? It certainly does to me. OP's guilty (I will accept that assumption for the time being), so come on! Let's nail the SOB!

But to punish everyone in that thread... what's wrong with this picture?

In case I sound too calm to be recognized... I am pissed off, and I am pissed off for a reason. As I said, this is not the first time this kind of a thing happens, and both times it had to do with "national secrets". Coincidence? I don't think so.

I really want to see how far this will go. I am pushing the limits of this matter, and I want to see how much this matter means to people I have in mind.

Therefore, I am giving another ultimatum. I expect to see that thread restored in another 2 days, or my warning still stands.

This ultimatum, by all my predictions, will lead to me being banished from ATS. Sometimes you have to sacrifice everything you think you have (which here, on this planet, really amounts to nothing) in order to see how far the other side is willing to go.

This is a lesson by example I am conducting now. I have nothing to lose, and nothing to gain by saying these things. It is a perfect position to act from.

I am looking forward to your response... including thrashing this thread.

The thread was trashed for two reasons...

1) As stated, the author was concocting a story.

2) The story itself perpetuates a myth that's not possible.


#1 was addressed above.

#2 was the notion put forth by the thread author that somehow his actions on ATS were tracked and as a result, whomever was doing the tracking came looking for him. This is not a probable scenario.

There were two issues at play, the author creating a hoax, and that hoax seemingly designed to create doubt as to the integrity of how this website is run/managed (by revealing user's private information).

reply to post by SkepticOverlord
I have to agree with Tuebor on this one, it doesn't look good when you delete a thread. As far as the op trying to cast doubt on the integrity of ats, i seriously doubt that would've happened. The op just wasn't believable to me or many others from what i saw. There were however other posts in the thread that seemed plausible, but did not lead me to believe that ats was in any way responsible. If the gov really wanted to track the users here they could do it easily without your help. It is your site so you are free to do what you will, but imo the fact that you deleted a thread that you felt cast doubt on the integrity of ats is what in fact what will really cast a shadow of doubt on the integrity of ats. I hope i don't offend you, but your response stating that that was the reason the thread was trashed may lead some members to doubt your integrity and question your motives. Again jmo, but i believe that you may have done a disservice to the members as well as to ats by trashing the thread for the #2 reason that you stated.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
#2 was the notion put forth by the thread author that somehow his actions on ATS were tracked and as a result, whomever was doing the tracking came looking for him. This is not a probable scenario.

So, now we are going to play logical games as well?

Don't you see that every post you make gives me further evidence that you willingly chose to trash that thread? There was no NSA letter, was there? The top of my list of suspects has just changed the occupant.

Let me reply to your replies:

1) And you would know this... how?

I don't know if it was genuine or not, and I certainly know much more than you do. So, how would you know that he was making it all up?

2) Not possible?

Is that the same "impossible" (in your own words) that I already proved wrong in that thread?

To clarify this to people who weren't there, this is how I proved it (someone else around here posted a Countdown interview with the guy on YouTube; I would check if that thread is still around).

This is a word for word external source quote I put on the thread in question.

His first inkling that something was amiss came in summer 2002 when he opened the door to admit a visitor from the National Security Agency to an office of AT&T in San Francisco.

"What the heck is the NSA doing here?" Mark Klein, a former AT&T technician, said he asked himself.

A year or so later, he stumbled upon documents that, he said, nearly caused him to fall out of his chair. The documents, he said, show that the NSA gained access to massive amounts of e-mail and search and other Internet records of more than a dozen global and regional telecommunications providers. AT&T allowed the agency to hook into its network at a facility in San Francisco and, according to Klein, many of the other telecom companies probably knew nothing about it.

Klein is in Washington this week [november 2007]to share his story in the hope that it will persuade lawmakers not to grant legal immunity to telecommunications firms that helped the government in its anti-terrorism efforts.

Source

And this is also what I posted there (typing from my memory):

I gave it some more thought, and I have to withdraw my SSL question [Secure Socket Layer being implemented on ATS]. The problem is that the initial exchange of SSL encryption keys is performed over the same line as the communication itself. Whoever interecepts the exchange of keys will be able to listen to "secure" communication with no problem.

...

It's always better to know for certain that communication is not secure, than to be falsely convinced that it is.
[as FBI learned quite recently; isn't that right, you FBI guys out there?]

...

Keep hitting the patterns NSA is looking for, and you are certainly going to end up on their watch list. Try looking on the net for a way to get a weapon, and you've just increased your "threat assesment status" to a level that justifies sending certain people (that I described as "provocateur agents") to check on your real-life activities.

...

What this should do is teach people that there is no privacy on the Internet. At least, that's the stand that should be taken by anyone serious enough about what they are doing on the net (whatever it is).

I sure hope this was the reason for trashing that thread. Because if it is, I have just forced you to trash this one as well. If you had any choice before (due to playing on the card of forgiveness, on the account of my anger), you simply can't avoid it now, can you?

I said I am going to push the limits of this matter, and God be my witness, I am doing it right now.

The clock is ticking, guys. One day has almost passed... You have just one more to go.

Good luck with choosing what to do.

P.S.
SkepticOverlord, I will give you just one simple advice. I have no wish to continue this discussion anymore.

If you are truly honest to your beliefs stated on ATS, the only thing you have to do is to simply say "I can't retrieve the thread".

That will be enough for me. It will not change the situation in any way, but misunderstanding between you and me will be resolved.

reply to post by elendal


rofl, get over it

reply to post by elendal


Just chill out dude.

I have no idea what your agenda is here, but it seems to me that you have a bee in your bonnet.

Calm down or go away.

In response to more_serotonin_pls and brian1, and anyone else with "smart" remarks:

"Message received, but somewhat unclear."

Would you two like to elaborate on what you actually wanted to say? That you are here to defend SkepticOverlord? I believe he is quite capable of defending himself. He certainly doesn't need "smart" remarks like the ones you gave.

Besides... You two really don't understand anything, do you? Never heard of expression "read between the lines", have you? Learn some more things about real life, and then come back here and give truly smart remarks. Not the "smart" ones.

But, you did do you part of the job here. Your remarks, together with some new information from ATS, made me post this.

It seems facts have a nasty habit of surfacing in the most inappropriate moments...

Am I really speaking to the same SkepticOverlord who posted this only two years ago?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

What is going on here? What happened to the guy who spread the truth himself, and not so long ago? Did he get lost somewhere along the way? Was he treatened into submission? Was he bribed? Did he simply become disillusioned with the world? Simply gave up, turned away, and never looked back?

This is like directly from a Twilight Zone. What has happened here?

How can a man who two years ago understood that nothing on Internet is safe from spying claim today that no spying can happen on ATS?

Isn't there, somewhere, a logical contradiction? Or is it just me not understanding?

reply to post by elendal



What's the beef chief?

S.O. already said you were welcome to start your own thread on the subject and offered to produce your posts from the thread. So he trashed a thread, site owners are known to do that from time to time. On ANY site.

Is it that you somehow think your revelation about NSA wiretapping was some kind of secret that is being squashed? If so, hell that story is old news. It's been all over the internet, not exactly sensitive information at this point in the game. In fact Skeptic himself posted this thread on the subject back in 2006. Seems like you are trying to read WAY to much into this dude.

This is just a suggestion Elendall but perhaps a conspiracy site is not in your best interest. You seem to be taking it all a little too....uhh......seriously? As cloak and dagger as it may seem here, it is after all just another website.

My God,

You really have an over inflated sense of your own self importance don't you?

Smart comments? What do you mean by smart comments? Commenting that you should just chill out is in no way a smart comment. It is my opinion.

You want me to elaborate on what I meant by my post - fine - I will do and risk any warnings or point deductions that may come my way.

Giving deadlines and ultimatums on a web site like you did in your initial post on this thread is quite frankly pathetic. You will keep 'truths' hidden from us if you don't get your answer? Go ahead. I wonder what truths they are...the fact that you are bored? The fact that you take things far too seriously. The fact that you have no sense of humour. The fact that you are - IMHO - an idiot?

Have I ever heard of the expression 'read between the lines?' Hmm let me think...

Reading between the lines I would guess that you really have no life. I like inferring things.

When has SO said that there is no spying on the internet?

And how dare you suggest I go away and learn something about real life. You know nothing about what I know about life - NOTHING - so don't even go there, boy.

I make a light hearted chill comment - jeez.

I am sick to death of people on the internet with bad attitudes and overblown egos. Put it this way - if you used that tone to me in the street - you would not be standing on your feet.

I await my punishment from the mods, but I hope people who know me, understand how wound up I must be to post like this.

I think I need a break...


[edit on 6-5-2008 by more_serotonin_pls]

Originally posted by elendal
Am I really speaking to the same SkepticOverlord who posted this only two years ago?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Yes you are. However, since then, my time has been more focused on making this website seven-times more popular now than it was then... ensuring that more and more people see posts like that, and everything else our members post. (We get more than a million unique people visiting this site every month, and they see an average of seven pages each.)

How can a man who two years ago understood that nothing on Internet is safe from spying claim today that no spying can happen on ATS?

I never said any such thing. I said it's not possible for the "spy" to get someone's location, or other personal information, simply from their posts on ATS. Implying that it can happen implies that we would willing breach our privacy policy, which we vigorously defend.

Originally posted by SystemiK
reply to post by elendal

 

In fact Skeptic himself posted this thread on the subject back in 2006.

Sorry, but did you just repeat the link to the same thread I posted? You probably didn't see it.

Originally posted by more_serotonin_pls
The fact that you take things far too seriously. The fact that you have no sense of humour. The fact that you are - IMHO - an idiot?

Aside from calling me an idiot, that was a much better post you made. Now you are begining to earn my respect (not that it means anything to you, but it doesn't really matter).

"Take things too seriously", "no sense of humor"...

Oh, but on the contrary, my dear friend (or maybe you'd like me to adress you as "adversary"? you are not my adversary; you can trust me on that or not; it will also make no difference). Maybe you should browse through some of my other posts. The less serious ones (yes, there are such around).

If I took the things as seriously as you seem to believe I am, I would have been gone 9 years ago. Trully gone.

You may believe that I'm saying now that things are not as serious as I seem to believe. I am not saying that. Ther are serious, much more serious than you can even imagine right now (since you haven't read those other posts of mine, you really can't imagine it now; trust me on that one).

"Inflated ego"...

Yes I do give such impression, don't I? That is only because of years of practice, posting on forums that would eat you alive if you even tried mentioning the UFO subject. That experience has taught me much. Among other things, that it really doesn't matter what people say or do. It makes absolutely no difference whatsoever. The only thing that matters is what they intend.

My intention here was to get to the bottom of this subject. To reveal the truth, however hurtful it may be. You can't even begin to imagine how these posts hurt me. They hurt like hell. They hurt beyond belief. Is anyone else around here prepared to hurt themselves in order to reveal the truth? Does anyone even understand what I am saying here?

Revolution? By the people who can't stand the pain of ridicule? How anyone can imagine that to work? It won't work. There will be no revolution in the U.S. That much is clear now. And because there won't be one, there will be destruction. The cleaning. The last effort to prevent the unthinkable. The Nova.

Can you understand what I'm saying here? If you can't, go through my other posts. In some of them you will find the reality. As it is. No makeup there. Unfortunately, some posts haven't survived, so you won't be able to know some of the things taht those who are far above you know now. They guard their preciousss sssecretssss. Like it will do them any good... *sigh*

The things are serious, and only because I don't give a damn about this planet, I am able to actually try to do something about it. Try to help, even when there is no help.

It is all going in a very certain direction, so none of my attempts really mean anything. I am doing this without expecting anything in return. Not even success. I wouldn't have it any other way.

...

SkepticOverlord, I must again correct you. It is possible to get people's address in the real world. The only thing you have to do, once you have complete spying on the U.S. part of the Internet, is to follow the IP address. That address belongs to some Internet provider. The provider has its own database of its clients. Some providers have already given their records to U.S. alphabet agencies. Home many? Almost everyone, for all I know.

If you truly want to protect ATS users, warn them. Don't lull them into the false feeling of safety. You have been doing the lulling, and that is what is so unforgivable about this whole matter. You act as if you want them to feel secure on ATS, even though the Internet hasn't been secure for a very long time.

Is that your intention? To lull the people?

I am sorry for having to say this...

My whole life experience is telling me that it is your intention. For what reasons? That is your question to answer.

I sometimes feel like I'm talking to a wall here, but since none of what I do really matters... who cares. Wall, or a person, it's all the same now.

I bid you all farewell.

And, good luck... You'll need it.

ka·mi·ka·ze (käm-käz)
n.
1. A Japanese pilot trained in World War II to make a suicidal crash attack, especially upon a ship.
2. An airplane loaded with explosives to be piloted in a suicide attack.
3. Slang An extremely reckless person who seems to court death.
adj.
1. Of or relating to a suicidal air attack: a kamikaze mission.
2. Slang So reckless in behavior or actions as to be suicidal

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