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thanks for moving it neformoe.

Respectful women that have done nudes:

Marilyn Monroe
Angelina Jolie
Janet Jackson
Madonna
Janis Joplin
John Lennon & Yoko Ono (she's crazy though )

I wouldn't want my daughter having ANY of those girls as role models

How bout women like:

Amelia Earhart
Molly Pitcher
Harriet Tubman
Marie Curie

Instead you want women who can only entertain, rather then think.

Why not a women like Marie Curie...

Marie Curie and Pierre Curie thus discovered first polonium (named for her native Poland) and then radium. On January 12, 1902, Marie Curie isolated pure radium, and her 1903 dissertation resulted in the first advanced scientific research degree to be awarded to a woman in France -- the first doctorate in science awarded to a woman in all of Europe.

In 1903, for their work, Marie Curie, her husband Pierre, and Henry Becquerel, were awarded the Nobel Prize for Chemistry.

But, its better to run around being 'Like a Virgin'... rather then thinking...

So... to rephrase, and restate the new topics of this board...

15 year old girls being 'sexed up'

Are these 'celibrisluts' good role models for our young women?

*** Celibrisluts = Paris Hilton, Britny Spears, Miley Cryus ***

Also, i am not saying every woman needs to be a noble prize winning scienticst, a woman can still show off her body and have a respectable carrer. Persinal, i think Profesional CheerLeaders are some of the most amazing women in our society. Every single one of them has a job outside of cheerleading, they are healthy woman, who are not just skin and bones, and can actualy perform physical activity. Many of them have degrees of Higher learning, some with Masters Degrees, and there are also several Doctors on NFL cheerleading teams... 31 NFL teams with Cheerleaders (GB doesnt have them), with about a dozen cheerleaders per team... so thats over 350 role models that i would take vs 350 celibisluts...

reply to post by TKainZero

I agree with everything you said and I sort of gave up trying to make people understand the social implications. But I'm not sure about the cheerleading part, they are sex symbols. And by your false logic of a woman capable of maintaining two different images of herself at once then Annabel Chong would be a respectful women because she was academically successful. I know that was an extreme example there but its the only one I could find at the moment, as long as you get my point.

reply to post by TKainZero



Thats the Problem. These are MODERN Role Models. Nothing wrong with it. but it's what our society does.

and No they aren't sluts.

If they were... you or I could lay them... and I promise, that is NOT the case.

reply to post by coven


dude, who cares they promote 'slutness' anyway. not you or I know what they do in their private lives. actually the fact that they are famous eliminates the lifestyle of 'slutness' that you are describing. lol at you. as if you will try and pick up Angelina jolia at a bar. the only way you can ever hook up with them is if you know their agents and even then. These people wont sleep around of course you got it all wrong. they are filthy rich thanx to their antics that messed up society. slutty people are the ones with low self esteem issues and attention seekers or rarely hypersexuality issues and all it takes for a teenage girl is to see one britany spears video and then next day she loses her virginity because she thought that was cool and make her popular.



[edit on 13-5-2008 by DuneKnight]

[edit on 13-5-2008 by DuneKnight]

Originally posted by TKainZero
thanks for moving it neformoe.

Respectful women that have done nudes:

Marilyn Monroe
Angelina Jolie
Janet Jackson
Madonna
Janis Joplin
John Lennon & Yoko Ono (she's crazy though )

I wouldn't want my daughter having ANY of those girls as role models

Really, a UN Goodwill Ambassador isn't a suitable role model for your daughter?

How bout women like:

Amelia Earhart
Molly Pitcher
Harriet Tubman
Marie Curie

Instead you want women who can only entertain, rather then think.

Madonna's a billionaire, Yoko Ono is an avant garde artist who's spent half a century provoking thought through her art, what's not to think about?

Why not a women like Marie Curie...

Yeah, modern Western society is a little too celebrity obsessed for my liking, but a number of those celebrities (namely the actors) do get to play Marie Curie types on film, thus promoting the fame of your "thinkers".

And you know what, thinkers aren't the only role models out there...

Violette Reine Elizabeth Bushell Szabo, G.C., M.B.E., CdG (June 26, 1921 – c.February 5, 1945) was a World War II Allied secret agent.

en.wikipedia.org...

www.imdb.com...

Margaret Bourke-White (June 14, 1904 – August 27, 1971) was an American photographer and photojournalist...

...Bourke-White was portrayed by Farrah Fawcett in the television movie, Double Exposure: The Story of Margaret Bourke-White and by Candice Bergen in the 1982 film Gandhi.

But, its better to run around being 'Like a Virgin'... rather then thinking...

but knee-jerk reactions based on...what exactly?...that's the way to go...Did you, you know, agree with Dan Quayle's knee-jerk response to Murphy's pregnancy?

Also, i am not saying every woman needs to be a noble prize winning scienticst, a woman can still show off her body and have a respectable carrer. Persinal, i think Profesional CheerLeaders are some of the most amazing women in our society.

Really? One of the least useful things the professionalisation of American sport has produced from my Australian point of veiw.

Every single one of them has a job outside of cheerleading,

Because Cheerleading doesn't pay a living wage.

they are healthy woman, who are not just skin and bones,

So are my sisters. Oh, look, almost normal people, must make them role models...

and can actualy perform physical activity.

For thirty seconds at a time.

Many of them have degrees of Higher learning,

Yes, because they got scholarships just like the boys they are cheering. Remember Forest talking about his four years of Home Economics? Sports scholarships do not produce a surfeit of scholars.

some with Masters Degrees,

Every profession has people with Master's Degrees. Master's Degrees don't overly impress me.

and there are also several Doctors on NFL cheerleading teams...

Doctors of what? PhDs are nice, but writing a dissertation ain't that hard. The reason people are wowed by PhDs is the time it takes.

31 NFL teams with Cheerleaders (GB doesnt have them), with about a dozen cheerleaders per team... so thats over 350 role models that i would take vs 350 celibisluts...

Without knowing anything about the 350 individual cheerleaders beyond the fact that "several" of them have written and defended PhDs. Whereas you know all about Paris and Lindsay because of the blanket coverage of their trainwreck lives and you've thrown Miley into that basket, even 'though she hasn't been into rehab, hasn't been into custody, hasn't been drink-driving, hasn't been the subject of a best-selling hardcore porn film and hasn't gone on Larry King to tell us all that she read the Bible "a lot" in prison (all fortnight of it), but can't actually quote a single passage. (How about "Jesus wept."? That's a fairly appropriate one, I'd say.)

You do remember the case of the Cheerleading mother who tried to murder her daughter's rival's mother to ensure her daughter would make the team? Yeah, obviously a great effect on society...

People don't think about Angilina Jolie as a UN Ambassador.
People think about her making out with her brother, snatching black children from Africa, and Her and Billy Bob Thorton.


Nice woman you linked too. Woman make the best spies... why... because Men are the ones with the information... Some of the most senitive info has been 'stolen' by woman spies.

also,

Did you, you know, agree with Dan Quayle's knee-jerk response to Murphy's pregnancy?

I don't know what your talking about here.

SO, from your post i see that you are an Aussie. Do Aussie sports have CheerLeaders?


Here are some Bios of some RANDOM NFL Cheerleaders.

Terita Walker of the Denver Broncos, who is working on her Ph.D

Nicole Hopkins of the Washinton Redskins, is a Science Teacher

DiAnne of the New Orleans Saints, has a Batchlors, and a Masters in Moleculear Biology, and is working towards being a plastic surgon.

Sarah of the Kannas City Cheifs, has a degree in Mathmatics



Mabye i am giving these celibi-sults too much flack... mabye Paris Hilton has a Degree in Buisness, and Miely Cryus is working ona cure for aids on her spare time... but i doubt it.


Why am i grouping Miely Cryus in with Hilton and Britnay... heres why...
The First time i heard of Hilton was when her 'night-vision-sex tape came out', the first time i hear of Cyrus is when she is photo-graphed with a sheet draped over her, in a 'sex-ed' manner.

Also, NFL Cheerleaders are FAR MORE HEALTHY then these celibrisults. A NFL cheering retuine has these women throwning each other in the air and catching them.

Who is the better role model, This or This


I don't know how people can argue that these Celbrisluts are good role models for the young Women of America. I submit that the Average NFL cheerleader, is a FAR better role model then any of these celibrisluts...

reply to post by HowlrunnerIV

LOL women do make the best spies. all they have to do is act seductively and pretend to be a hooker. has any one heard of PROJECT MONARCH? anyway there is a movie coming out from france about French woman agents and one of them is a hooker working for france in WW2.

and again, cheerleaders are sex symbols now they are tainted, they were really short skirts! and their routines are terrible at least from what i seen, because moving your arms to make air letters is embarrasing, its not a sport. plus the whole thing about girls fighting to be on the cheerleading squad and the recent cheerleaders ambush thing just shows you how it messes them up. that and proms.

[edit on 14-5-2008 by DuneKnight]

Originally posted by TKainZero
People don't think about Angilina Jolie as a UN Ambassador.
People think about her making out with her brother, snatching black children from Africa, and Her and Billy Bob Thorton.

YOU think about that stuff, but that just shows YOUR limited vision and imagination. As does this

Nice woman you linked too. Woman make the best spies... why... because Men are the ones with the information... Some of the most senitive info has been 'stolen' by woman spies.

Your Victorian-leanings are starting to show through pretty clearly there, were you the one who told Hillary to iron your clothes?

also,

Did you, you know, agree with Dan Quayle's knee-jerk response to Murphy's pregnancy?

I don't know what your talking about here.

But had you decided to find out anything about Margaret Bourke-White, you might have followed the link to Candice Bergen - who won how many Emmies playing Murphy Brown? - and whose portrayal of Murphy Brown allowed the Republican Party to prove it was still mired in the '50s.

SO, from your post i see that you are an Aussie. Do Aussie sports have CheerLeaders?

Yes, some do, mostly the American sports played in Australia, like Basketball. Rugby League did have some cheerleaders. Aussie Rules has never needed them except for the only privately-owned team in the league and everyone else thought they were an American joke.

Mabye i am giving these celibi-sults too much flack... mabye Paris Hilton has a Degree in Buisness, and Miely Cryus is working ona cure for aids on her spare time... but i doubt it.

Maybe you should try staying on the roadmap of the argument instead of taking boring detours...Miley Cyrus is 15, name me any other 15-year old who is working on a cure for HIV/AIDS. Hint: if unable to do so, don't utter such stupidities.

Why am i grouping Miely Cryus in with Hilton and Britnay

Well, see, I've already decided it's because you are ignorant and a judgmental prude, but keep talking.

... heres why...
The First time i heard of Hilton was when her 'night-vision-sex tape came out', the first time i hear of Cyrus is when she is photo-graphed with a sheet draped over her, in a 'sex-ed' manner.

So, based on a single incident, with no background knowledge of any kind, you put a professional photography session in the same category as an amateur pron film. You know, you're not diggin your way out of that hole there.

Also, NFL Cheerleaders are FAR MORE HEALTHY then these celibrisults.

You know what Paris' diet is, do you?

A NFL cheering retuine has these women throwning each other in the air and catching them.

So? Go read Joanie Laurer's autobiography. [*Generalisation alert*] These "athletes" are fit enough to do their routines and very little more. At the end of a routine they have used their energy and they need the next passage of play to recover for the next routine. Cheerleading is about the look, not the substance. They are not spectacularly fitter than the average jogger, they have some more strength, but no more endurance.

Who is the better role model, This or This

In what way is the second image of relevance to this discussion?

I don't know how people can argue that these Celbrisluts are good role models for the young Women of America.

Well, if I was doing that then your statement would have some validity in this discussion. But as I have done no such thing, it's a complete waste of time except to show that you refuse to understand what you are reading if it doesn't conform to your Mullah Omar-derived view of women, their abilities, their value and their place in society.

I submit that the Average NFL cheerleader, is a FAR better role model then any of these celibrisluts...

I submit that the average NFL cheerleader is a barely more adequate role model than Paris Hilton or Lindsay Lohan on the grounds that not every rumour about average NFL cheerleaders involves snorting coc aine in hotels with Dallas Cowboys, but enough of them do to have created a permanent association in the public's mind between cheerleaders and sex.

But that's just one example (of many)

www.dallasnews.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

and that doesn't include a simple Google search that turned up these images...

from the basically tame, but woohoo which includes shake those pom-poms

to oh, a (former) cheerleader, a bed and a cake

and a few others on a blog that included the words "teen" and "sleazy", but the pasting of whose url here I'm pretty sure would violate the T&Cs.

Now, I'm sorry, but these are clearly women who's tool of work is their physical attractiveness and who earn money by displaying that physical attractiveness in clothing that if worn outside the stadium would immediately earn them the label "'ho".

Why your double standards?

If you want a role model for your daughter, try this lady.

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
I've already decided it's because you are ignorant and a judgmental prude

Since you have lowered this debate to personal attacks, this will be my last post to you, as it seems reason is lost on you.


Mabye if i spent more time reading celibirity gossip magazines, i would apreciate the life of these celibrisults more... the way that you do.


I will admit, that i do not watch much TV, and because of this, i have a limited exposeure to these celbrisults. I had no idea who Meily Cryus was, and my first exposeure to her, is a photo that has her drapped with a sheet, and her hair all 'sex-ed up'.

So no, Meily didn't break onto the scence like Paris Hilton did with her sex tape, and she hasn't rocked the teen-world with her singing either, Ala Spears... instead we are only given a half naked picture of this girl, and that is her presentaion to the world, weather she likes it or not, this is what she is known for now... Much like Jolie is known for Snatching black babies out of Africa, and making out with her brother.

So i will agree, to keep an eye on this Meily Cryus, as you seem to be the very offenced that she has joined the ranks of the celibrisult, so ill keep an eye out for her. Mabye in a few years she will do a full-frontal nude, so you can consider her a good role model...

*** SIde note, who was the other disney girl to pose nude recently? She was at the Game 4 Lakers-Jazz game. The HIgh School Musical Girl? I don't remember her name, but i remember a news link, and proof, that the girl from disney did a full frontal nude...

Now, for pure reserach purposes, the first time i heard of this Hana Montana was on South Park, this past season, season 12, the second episode. Here i suggest you take 20 mins to watch... also, worth noting, that the pisture in the SP episode is nothing like the picture in the AD that apears on this website. And upon further review, the SP show does call her by her real name, i guess i just didnt catch it the first time...


*** Also, i am glad you admited that the Average NFL Cheerleader is a better Role Model then your Average Celebrislut.

Originally posted by TKainZero

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
I've already decided it's because you are ignorant and a judgmental prude

Since you have lowered this debate to personal attacks, this will be my last post to you, as it seems reason is lost on you.

Don't make me laugh, I might actually expend some energy...Personal attacks? Uh, no. That isn't a personal attack. See, a personal attack would look like this: "You are a complete merchant banker!" I stated my opinion and it's based on the themes that keep showing through what you type.

Mabye if i spent more time reading celibirity gossip magazines, i would apreciate the life of these celibrisults more... the way that you do.

Allow me to quote myself in response to yourself once again.

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV

Originally posted by TKainZero

Mabye i am giving these celibi-sults too much flack... mabye Paris Hilton has a Degree in Buisness, and Miely Cryus is working ona cure for aids on her spare time... but i doubt it.

Maybe you should try staying on the roadmap of the argument instead of taking boring detours...Miley Cyrus is 15, name me any other 15-year old who is working on a cure for HIV/AIDS. Hint: if unable to do so, don't utter such stupidities.

and

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV

Originally posted by TKainZero
I don't know how people can argue that these Celbrisluts are good role models for the young Women of America.

Well, if I was doing that then your statement would have some validity in this discussion. But as I have done no such thing, it's a complete waste of time except to show that you refuse to understand what you are reading if it doesn't conform to your Mullah Omar-derived view of women, their abilities, their value and their place in society.

Now, where have I defended Paris Hilton? Where have I defended Lindsay Lohan or Britney Spears?

The fixation with the cranially-vacant residents of Los Angeles is all yours. So much so that you are ascribing actions and motivations to me that you cannot, if you search through all my posts in this thread for quotes, support with evidence. I have "defended" Miley Cyrus against your attacks on her character, but that was simply because in, your own admitted, ignorance you chose to brand her a whore.

Which is just one of the pieces of evidence I have of your status as a jucgmental prude. But back to your self-admissions...

I will admit, that i do not watch much TV, and because of this, i have a limited exposeure to these celbrisults.

But never let it be said a lack of information has prevented you from forming an opinion and stating it loudly and repeatedly.

I had no idea who Meily Cryus was, and my first exposeure to her, is a photo that has her drapped with a sheet, and her hair all 'sex-ed up'.

And with no idea as to the origin or purpose of the photo in question. See, that's what we call a "knee-jerk response".

So no, Meily didn't break onto the scence like Paris Hilton did with her sex tape, and she hasn't rocked the teen-world with her singing either, Ala Spears

But that's no reason not to dump her in their company on your "celbrislut" register.

... instead we are only given a half naked picture of this girl, and that is her presentaion to the world,

Except that it isn't, is it. Her presentation to the world is her weekly television show. This is a single photo that will have a limited shelf-life as things like Cyclone Nargis and Sichuan earthquakes hit the headlines.

weather she likes it or not, this is what she is known for now

Only among a small number of the public who in no way affect her economic viability. All those pre-teen girls out there still think her name is Hannah Montana.

... Much like Jolie is known for Snatching black babies out of Africa, and making out with her brother.

Again only among a limited number of the public and then only the ignorant who know nothing of the story. Do you know how many kids Jolie has? Do you know where they're from? Madonna is the one facing adoption problems in Africa, not Jolie.

So i will agree, to keep an eye on this Meily Cryus, as you seem to be the very offenced that she has joined the ranks of the celibrisult,

Only in your mind, I don't see anyone else jumping in to agree with you and slap me down here. I don't see the US press pages filled with editorial after editorial about this. What's its longevity on cable been? I've already delineated my stance.

so ill keep an eye out for her.

Could stretch your concentration there, don't strain yourself, you don't want to hurt anything, I mean you keep coming back to this...

Mabye in a few years she will do a full-frontal nude, so you can consider her a good role model...

Which proves you are unable to concentrate long enough to both make it to the end of a post and actually understand the words on the screen.

to wit:

*** Also, i am glad you admited that the Average NFL Cheerleader is a better Role Model then your Average Celebrislut.

Read again, I'll even bold the important bits for you

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV

Originally posted by TKainZero

I submit that the Average NFL cheerleader, is a FAR better role model then any of these celibrisluts...

I submit that the average NFL cheerleader is a barely more adequate role model than Paris Hilton or Lindsay Lohan

Now, let's go back and look at what you've been saying. You admit you knew nothing about Miley Cyrus, but you saw that photo and you decided she was a whore and a slut (your words).

I had no idea who Meily Cryus was, and my first exposeure to her, is a photo that has her drapped with a sheet, and her hair all 'sex-ed up'.

Here's a thought for you to ponder: What if that photo had actually been the image for a date-rape awareness campaign? What if that photo had been a still shot taken from a film about rape? What if that photo had been a still from a film about child prostitution?

Answer: wouldn't have mattered. The purpose of the photo didn't enter into your thought process, you saw the image and without any investigation branded the girl a whore.

That's what makes you ignorant and a judgmental prude.

Now, let's see you actually apply some of the reason you claim to have been using on me. Your constant attempts to drag Paris Hilton in here don't cut it and your determination to brand me her worshipper don't cut it either.

www.belowtopsecret.com...

Oh, wow...
This thread has gotten WAY off track. I don't even know what the arguement's about anymore
Guess that's what you get when you leave for a while