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The Conspiracy against Manhood.
page: 8share:
Originally posted by eye open doors
Sure. Ive met cynthia rothtock, Mouse Mallone, and Laila Ali. Everyone one of whom was a supremely well conditioned, and trained, woman. I asked everyone of them what they would do if attacked by a man with similar training.
"Surprise him with an attack and run like hell" was the consensus response
Life and death battle does not equate to simulated battle.
Youre right. Life and death battle is less forgiving, more chaotic, and the chances of someones with a serious disavdanvtage surviving is lower.
People train so that when the time comes they will be ready. Or as Sun Tzu put it, "he who sweats the most in training, bleeds the least in battle"
Originally posted by whitewave
Exactly. Men and women fight differently. Men will beat each other up and then buy each other a beer. Women will make a place in the tomato patch for your biodegrading corpse.
So many bull# stereotypes, so little time.
Youre right. Life and death battle is less forgiving, more chaotic, and the chances of someones with a serious disavdanvtage surviving is lower.
I am not trying to be right.
So many bull# stereotypes, so little time.
I have noticed you are prone to heavily stereotype. Is it because you are a man that allows you to do so?
[edit on 5/11/2008 by eye open doors]
I haven't read all these 8 pages but im sensing trouble here
I personally never met a feminist except for my professors but most girls i know never conform to feminist ideas and think its ridiculous so I dont think there is any conspiracy at all. women need men, men need women, in their pure forms. if you think men are becoming emasculated I will disagree because I think men just upgraded their idea of masculinity with so compromise of course. as a matter of fact, its not feminists who instilled these ideas onto us, it was our moms. I thought that wouldve been obvious by now. Our moms told us to value women no matter what and thats what we are doing, why is that so wrong?
plus our Manliness has always been defined by the opposite sex, women; depending on the purpose we serve. like during barbaric time men wouldve been required to be macho, strong, deadly so he can protect his woman and family or else women would have not survived. such is the case with blond women in Europe after the ice age. black haired women almost became extinct there after the emergence of alien-like blond women who attracted men more at the time and were defended. which is why scandanvia is filled with blonds.
[edit on 11-5-2008 by DuneKnight]
[edit on 11-5-2008 by DuneKnight]
[edit on 11-5-2008 by DuneKnight]
I personally never met a feminist except for my professors but most girls i know never conform to feminist ideas and think its ridiculous so I dont think there is any conspiracy at all. women need men, men need women, in their pure forms. if you think men are becoming emasculated I will disagree because I think men just upgraded their idea of masculinity with so compromise of course. as a matter of fact, its not feminists who instilled these ideas onto us, it was our moms. I thought that wouldve been obvious by now. Our moms told us to value women no matter what and thats what we are doing, why is that so wrong?
plus our Manliness has always been defined by the opposite sex, women; depending on the purpose we serve. like during barbaric time men wouldve been required to be macho, strong, deadly so he can protect his woman and family or else women would have not survived. such is the case with blond women in Europe after the ice age. black haired women almost became extinct there after the emergence of alien-like blond women who attracted men more at the time and were defended. which is why scandanvia is filled with blonds.
[edit on 11-5-2008 by DuneKnight]
[edit on 11-5-2008 by DuneKnight]
[edit on 11-5-2008 by DuneKnight]
plus doesnt anyone think its ironic that complaining about the loss of your manhood on internet forums isn't manly at all I'm gonna go now chop
some wood and treat my wife like s**t because thats the manly thing to do.
I personally don't mind living in a society full of wimps, as its much more peaceful now. if we are ever to evolve we must abandon our primitive ways and one of them is your ancient idea of manhood.
right now i live in the middle east, and here you can see manliness at its worst. be careful for what you wish for.
I personally don't mind living in a society full of wimps, as its much more peaceful now. if we are ever to evolve we must abandon our primitive ways and one of them is your ancient idea of manhood.
right now i live in the middle east, and here you can see manliness at its worst. be careful for what you wish for.
reply to post by whitewave
Here you have hit the crux of the problem. It is not paranoid to believe that there are a handful of select few who run the world. This is how the world works. It is thesis plus antithesis that equals synthesis.
For many years, women were treated as property or worse. This is thesis. Enter feminism which disrupts the male’s idea of life should be. This is antithesis. The consequential war that erupts from thesis rubbing against antithesis is where we are now.
Women who are insecure can only feel better about themselves by emasculating men. Men who are insecure can only feel better about themselves by bashing women. Since the beginning of the feminist movement, there have been a huge number of insecure men and women trying to find their position in life. Those of us who have reached a certain level of security in our lives see this “fight” for what it is; silly and immature.
This is not to say that there haven’t been many casualties on both sides. On the contrary, both men and women have been hurt by the fallout of this war between the sexes. The brutality on the behalf of both genders has been unconscionable. If we can’t end this war on our own, we will only continue to suffer. The solution to suffering is offered by those few elite in charge in the form of new laws and regulations. This is synthesis. When we are in so much pain that we are willing to give up our freedoms we have reached the place where the elite want us.
Yes, there is a conspiracy against manhood. Are you willing to work towards peace or give up your rights to be free men and women.
Originally posted by whitewave
reply to post by Shazam The Unbowed
Your manhood is being usurped; not by women-we're just the scapegoats set up to take the fall for the usurpation, but by the powers that be. Divide and conquer seems to be the modus operandi. Blacks and whites against each other. Catholics and Protestants against each other. Muslims and Jews against each other. Men and women against each other. Young against old. Poor against rich.
Unless we all learn to respect each others differences and work together to save each other, we're ALL in big trouble. If you want to tackle THE conspiracy you need to ditch the tunnel vision and see the big picture.
Here you have hit the crux of the problem. It is not paranoid to believe that there are a handful of select few who run the world. This is how the world works. It is thesis plus antithesis that equals synthesis.
For many years, women were treated as property or worse. This is thesis. Enter feminism which disrupts the male’s idea of life should be. This is antithesis. The consequential war that erupts from thesis rubbing against antithesis is where we are now.
Women who are insecure can only feel better about themselves by emasculating men. Men who are insecure can only feel better about themselves by bashing women. Since the beginning of the feminist movement, there have been a huge number of insecure men and women trying to find their position in life. Those of us who have reached a certain level of security in our lives see this “fight” for what it is; silly and immature.
This is not to say that there haven’t been many casualties on both sides. On the contrary, both men and women have been hurt by the fallout of this war between the sexes. The brutality on the behalf of both genders has been unconscionable. If we can’t end this war on our own, we will only continue to suffer. The solution to suffering is offered by those few elite in charge in the form of new laws and regulations. This is synthesis. When we are in so much pain that we are willing to give up our freedoms we have reached the place where the elite want us.
Yes, there is a conspiracy against manhood. Are you willing to work towards peace or give up your rights to be free men and women.
Caballero,
I dont have any problems showing women respect who are capable of giving or showing me something about which to be respectful. I find this very lacking in many of todays women. Many of todays men too ,for all that matter. Not all but many. And the number of many is growing.
Oh..by the way..I dont have a problem with women getting drafted and going off to war. This is equal liability as well as equal responsibility. It is equal..not just semantics.
However..it will cause huge problems in discontent with people who have survived to that point..on default settings to play through unchallanged.
I just jumped both my nieces and sisters backside this evening ..for trying to pass through..default ..on such cheap settings and thinking that no male would challange it. I let them know in no uncertain terms that there was a man in this house..,not a doormat. I am not intrested in that girl stuff religion...or Victimization defaults.
My sister is heavy into that femminist claptrap and thinks no men can think their way through it.
Eyes open doors,
Do you think the average male cannot think through this one. It looks good on paper as a thesis...how does this supporting role look in the face of abortion? How does the purest form of love look?? How do women as more valuble in this social structure look?? Someone out here tell me how many abortions were performed last year?? I am not quite sure how to look it up. Just dont expect to default through with me on this one.
This looks pretty silly in the face of the abortion stance promoted by the womens groups and the government through planned parenthood et al.
I am not saying here that women are not valuable..not at all am I saying this.
Potential to heal the ills of the world?? Is that like Magic...being flashdanced through ..magically?? Who is going to be taking the RISK for all this to take place and stage this event....solving the ills of the world??
And I bring this point up out of the greatest respect.
This..Eyes..is textbook stereotyping. I can make this point about many women I have known. I often express this as the "appearance of commitment" rather than be committed. You mean women dont do this type of counterfit role playing game?? And do it by stealth to an incredibly ignorant and imperceptive male?? I mean..after all ..he is getting her body once in a while..why would he ever think or expect more??
Point here is that I too can speak from experience.
If I want to hear this stuff I watch television ..it is all over the place.
It does not default through with me.
I agree with you here...for purposes on which Whitewave elaborated. This often blinds many women to real female value...and substitutes ersatz value. This works on many men as long as they dont think outside of social defaults.
Oh..and as someone on another thread posted ...Duzey I think..women dont always look attractive for men..they often do it as much against the other women.....status. This can be very primordal.
You are losing me here. Can you elaborate more on the specifics of this declaration.??
Not in a default social set up or a default relationship and especially if one party does not know it is going on.
I agree here. However..this does not conceal or discount that defaults are taking place...and are even becoming fashionable and marketable..a lifestyle for many.
Shazam,
YOu do understand, and Whitewave has graciously confirmed for me, that women are always in the survival mode.
I have been unfortunate in witnessing several women fights and it was quite shocking..the first one...very feral..even primordal..right out of the wildest primordal ooze. The first one left a lasting impression on me to this day.
Why on earth would a woman want to fight in a manner as does a man?? It is quite obvious to me that most of them have no intrest in it. I have had women try to get physical with me in this womans manner. I have no problem sweeping thier feet right out and quickly from under them..nor putting them in an arm or wrist lock. What I worry about are those darned nails. Dude..they are quite feral with those nails.
I do know this about most women ...you threaten their children..and you are going to have a tiger by the tail and cannot let go. Woe to any man or other woman against a woman like this if they have a real weapon and know how to use it.
I can and will respect a woman like this for her motives. This to me is one of the highest purest expressions of love..even if it is a man doing this for his children. It is not just the provincialness of giving birth..but also the struggle to raise the children....the fruit. The RISK...male and female.
Oh..as regards women fighting...I liken this to guerrilla warfare. Stealth. Even with all its primordal ferocity. I dont blame them for this. Guerrilla warfare is become quite popular today and going into what is called Fourth Generation Warfare. I suspect women have been way ahead of the curve in this stealth...for milleniums. As I have said...many times..subtilty is a very very powerful tool...or weapon. Can I get an AMEN on this??
Oh..again..you do understand that more and more women today are purchasing firearms.?? Yes?? I dont fault them for this. There is alot of wildlife out here..male and female. I am trying to teach my woman more center mass shots up at the gun club. She is working on it and it takes quite a bit of ammunition(38 Special) but I reload so it helps. Mind you now ..she doesnt like to shoot unless she has on surgical gloves as she spends alot on her nail jobs. Guess what ..I dont care..I buy her the gloves if she shoots and practices. Up at the class for her concealed permit..the other person who could consistently shoot straight was in fact a woman. It was obvious to me that she had logged much time with her tools. Most of the other guys were all over the paper. I admire that woman for her work and potential. She has good motivation..she is the night manager at a resteraunt ..and does the night drops at the bank. I would too.
I agree with what Whitewave says here
Whitewave is a nurse. Having dated two nurses I know what some of the risks are in this occupation. Most of the public hasnt a clue.
As part of my nuclear qualifications I know how to use levers pulleys , wheels wire and rope. I am a trained rigger making knots etc. Also a qualified crane operator. I know what the risks are in my profession. Around the home I use more and more of this when I move heavy loads. Work smarter not harder. I use my come along on heavy loads rather than tostesterone when possible.
I also agree with her that women need more than T&A around me. I can get that all over the place in lieu of taking up with a woman. It is not a rare or endangered commodity in the marketplace.
I dont fault a woman at all if she can figure out how to use pulleys, chains etc etc..or failing this ..blink her eyes and get a man to do it for her. More power to her. Pity the guy dumb enough to fall for this however.
I will continue further by posting again as I am running out of characters down at the bottom of the page
Orangetom
I dont have any problems showing women respect who are capable of giving or showing me something about which to be respectful. I find this very lacking in many of todays women. Many of todays men too ,for all that matter. Not all but many. And the number of many is growing.
Oh..by the way..I dont have a problem with women getting drafted and going off to war. This is equal liability as well as equal responsibility. It is equal..not just semantics.
However..it will cause huge problems in discontent with people who have survived to that point..on default settings to play through unchallanged.
I just jumped both my nieces and sisters backside this evening ..for trying to pass through..default ..on such cheap settings and thinking that no male would challange it. I let them know in no uncertain terms that there was a man in this house..,not a doormat. I am not intrested in that girl stuff religion...or Victimization defaults.
My sister is heavy into that femminist claptrap and thinks no men can think their way through it.
Eyes open doors,
If the man goes against the supportive role, the growing child within is affected. The woman who is pregnant is vulnerable. The woman is more emotional. The purest form of love is limited through the lack of intent of the parents. The actions of both parties ripple outward and inward.
Do you think the average male cannot think through this one. It looks good on paper as a thesis...how does this supporting role look in the face of abortion? How does the purest form of love look?? How do women as more valuble in this social structure look?? Someone out here tell me how many abortions were performed last year?? I am not quite sure how to look it up. Just dont expect to default through with me on this one.
One can replace the word love with potential. Within the womb of every pregnant woman lies potential to heal the ills of the world. If abused that healing can form into harm. So when I say women are more valuable to society, it is out of the greatest respect.
This looks pretty silly in the face of the abortion stance promoted by the womens groups and the government through planned parenthood et al.
I am not saying here that women are not valuable..not at all am I saying this.
Potential to heal the ills of the world?? Is that like Magic...being flashdanced through ..magically?? Who is going to be taking the RISK for all this to take place and stage this event....solving the ills of the world??
And I bring this point up out of the greatest respect.
By mens blindness as to what woman is. I speak from experience. I have be acquainted with too many married men that just play in their relationships. They complain about them, the cheat on them, they take advantage of them, they abuse the sanctity of their role.
This..Eyes..is textbook stereotyping. I can make this point about many women I have known. I often express this as the "appearance of commitment" rather than be committed. You mean women dont do this type of counterfit role playing game?? And do it by stealth to an incredibly ignorant and imperceptive male?? I mean..after all ..he is getting her body once in a while..why would he ever think or expect more??
Point here is that I too can speak from experience.
If I want to hear this stuff I watch television ..it is all over the place.
It does not default through with me.
Women tend to place more importance on looking attractive. I feel that biology plays a roll in this.
I agree with you here...for purposes on which Whitewave elaborated. This often blinds many women to real female value...and substitutes ersatz value. This works on many men as long as they dont think outside of social defaults.
Oh..and as someone on another thread posted ...Duzey I think..women dont always look attractive for men..they often do it as much against the other women.....status. This can be very primordal.
The power struggle in an unhealthy relationship creates harmful interactions. Such as an unwillingness to share vulnerability in the bed. Or demanding money, or denial of money if said vulnerability is withheld.
You are losing me here. Can you elaborate more on the specifics of this declaration.??
Both the sexes are accountable individually in a relationship
Not in a default social set up or a default relationship and especially if one party does not know it is going on.
In a healthy relationship which honors a partnership, such things as money are miniscule. Interpersonal risk is far more important to a relationship.
I agree here. However..this does not conceal or discount that defaults are taking place...and are even becoming fashionable and marketable..a lifestyle for many.
Shazam,
Then you are either lieing, or you have never been in one. I've known champion fighters, olympic wrestlers, Army MMA fighters, and Black Belts, and not opne of these legitimate badasses could honestly say they ad never lost a fight.
YOu do understand, and Whitewave has graciously confirmed for me, that women are always in the survival mode.
I have been unfortunate in witnessing several women fights and it was quite shocking..the first one...very feral..even primordal..right out of the wildest primordal ooze. The first one left a lasting impression on me to this day.
Why on earth would a woman want to fight in a manner as does a man?? It is quite obvious to me that most of them have no intrest in it. I have had women try to get physical with me in this womans manner. I have no problem sweeping thier feet right out and quickly from under them..nor putting them in an arm or wrist lock. What I worry about are those darned nails. Dude..they are quite feral with those nails.
I do know this about most women ...you threaten their children..and you are going to have a tiger by the tail and cannot let go. Woe to any man or other woman against a woman like this if they have a real weapon and know how to use it.
I can and will respect a woman like this for her motives. This to me is one of the highest purest expressions of love..even if it is a man doing this for his children. It is not just the provincialness of giving birth..but also the struggle to raise the children....the fruit. The RISK...male and female.
Oh..as regards women fighting...I liken this to guerrilla warfare. Stealth. Even with all its primordal ferocity. I dont blame them for this. Guerrilla warfare is become quite popular today and going into what is called Fourth Generation Warfare. I suspect women have been way ahead of the curve in this stealth...for milleniums. As I have said...many times..subtilty is a very very powerful tool...or weapon. Can I get an AMEN on this??
Oh..again..you do understand that more and more women today are purchasing firearms.?? Yes?? I dont fault them for this. There is alot of wildlife out here..male and female. I am trying to teach my woman more center mass shots up at the gun club. She is working on it and it takes quite a bit of ammunition(38 Special) but I reload so it helps. Mind you now ..she doesnt like to shoot unless she has on surgical gloves as she spends alot on her nail jobs. Guess what ..I dont care..I buy her the gloves if she shoots and practices. Up at the class for her concealed permit..the other person who could consistently shoot straight was in fact a woman. It was obvious to me that she had logged much time with her tools. Most of the other guys were all over the paper. I admire that woman for her work and potential. She has good motivation..she is the night manager at a resteraunt ..and does the night drops at the bank. I would too.
I agree with what Whitewave says here
If all a woman needed or wanted was brawn, she could train an ape to move heavy objects pr employ wheels, levers, pulleys, etc. Men need to be more than muscles, just as women need to be more than T&A. As long as both sexes persist in this one-upsmanship nonsense, the senseless battle will continue.
Whitewave is a nurse. Having dated two nurses I know what some of the risks are in this occupation. Most of the public hasnt a clue.
As part of my nuclear qualifications I know how to use levers pulleys , wheels wire and rope. I am a trained rigger making knots etc. Also a qualified crane operator. I know what the risks are in my profession. Around the home I use more and more of this when I move heavy loads. Work smarter not harder. I use my come along on heavy loads rather than tostesterone when possible.
I also agree with her that women need more than T&A around me. I can get that all over the place in lieu of taking up with a woman. It is not a rare or endangered commodity in the marketplace.
I dont fault a woman at all if she can figure out how to use pulleys, chains etc etc..or failing this ..blink her eyes and get a man to do it for her. More power to her. Pity the guy dumb enough to fall for this however.
I will continue further by posting again as I am running out of characters down at the bottom of the page
Orangetom
Continued...
Wait a minute..men dont forego education...even while working? Take RISKS.?? Men dont perform services worth substantially more than they are being paid...
I'll tell you something else too...if a woman leaves a man there are little or no social programs for him to turn to or fall into as a safety net in case he cannot cash in on his "biology " in the social marketplace. At least some of the benefits of marriage are preserved by laws for women..not so for men. Sometimes I ask myself what people are possibly thinking.
Almost nothing a man receives from a woman is covered in death or in the disolving of a marriage. No safety net for a man. Who is the victim in this social structure? Only a man can be this naturally dumb.
Intresting point about NYSE traders and tostesterone levels. How would that work out if a NYSE trader had to get under a 600,000 pound load??
Or would he beg off to someone else doing it. That is the difference Shazam..not tostesterone.
However ..it is an intresting point and one for which I had not fully thought through myself. I shall keep it in mind. Thanks for this added view. I am not sure I agree but will consider it further.
Scarlett,
Good post you made there. Well spoken. Thanks,
Whitewave,
LOL LOL..hey I know this woman!! A couple of them once I think on it a few minutes. Wait a mnute...its not really all that funny now that I think further on it.
Hmmmmm!! What in the world am I thinking???
I agree once again Whitewave..nice shooting.
You know I recoiled for a minute when I read your part about women being Meeeeeeaan!!!
That is exactly right..correct ..nice shooting again!! Awhile back I mentioned to you and some others in a post about watching some women at a company Christmas party as an escort to the woman I was seeing at the time. How feral and primordal they were out in the lobby watching not the men but the other women. There was a wild..look in their eyes as they gave the other women the once over in a quick scan..like radar sweeping very quickly. They saw everything they needed to see in a short quick scan. They were by looks ..establishing a wild feral pecking order.
Whitewave it was absolutely wild...even uncivilized!!
The correct term for it is Meeeeeaan!! That is precisely the word I have been looking for but never discovering. I keep using words like feral , primordal..et al.. But Meeeeeaann is exactly how to describe it. Meeeeaann...is exactly what I saw in these womens eyes. Not hidden....unfiltered...raw. Like that first womans fight ...I remember this because of the meanness. Some of these women in the lobby were educated and had degrees. Education did not make these women rise above this meeeaaness.
Well..anyways..thanks for opening my eyes to the correct word to describe it. I never would have come up with that word on my own. To much guy stuff blocking my thinking here.
My thanks to all for thier posts,
Orangetom
[edit on 11-5-2008 by orangetom1999]
And you raise a good point. A woman who forgoes education or work to raise a family or take care of a home takes a massive risk. Furhtermore the man saves an enormous extra amount, since she performs services worth substansially more than most would suppose. (think clean thoughts chums) I have no doubt that such women deserve substansial compensation. Whether they deserve half the mans wealth is debatable depending on his level of worth, but she does deserve compensation for the reduced lifetime expected income.
Wait a minute..men dont forego education...even while working? Take RISKS.?? Men dont perform services worth substantially more than they are being paid...
I'll tell you something else too...if a woman leaves a man there are little or no social programs for him to turn to or fall into as a safety net in case he cannot cash in on his "biology " in the social marketplace. At least some of the benefits of marriage are preserved by laws for women..not so for men. Sometimes I ask myself what people are possibly thinking.
Almost nothing a man receives from a woman is covered in death or in the disolving of a marriage. No safety net for a man. Who is the victim in this social structure? Only a man can be this naturally dumb.
Intresting point about NYSE traders and tostesterone levels. How would that work out if a NYSE trader had to get under a 600,000 pound load??
Or would he beg off to someone else doing it. That is the difference Shazam..not tostesterone.
However ..it is an intresting point and one for which I had not fully thought through myself. I shall keep it in mind. Thanks for this added view. I am not sure I agree but will consider it further.
Scarlett,
Good post you made there. Well spoken. Thanks,
Whitewave,
Exactly. Men and women fight differently. Men will beat each other up and then buy each other a beer. Women will make a place in the tomato patch for your biodegrading corpse.
LOL LOL..hey I know this woman!! A couple of them once I think on it a few minutes. Wait a mnute...its not really all that funny now that I think further on it.
Hmmmmm!! What in the world am I thinking???
Men are just strong; women are meeeeaan. I worked at a male prison once and almost all of the guards admitted they had started out at a womans prison because they thought it would be easier. They all confessed that women were much worse than the men, more unruly, more prone to violence, more manipulative, more everything that made their jobs difficult. As for you believing me, don't care.
I agree once again Whitewave..nice shooting.
You know I recoiled for a minute when I read your part about women being Meeeeeeaan!!!
That is exactly right..correct ..nice shooting again!! Awhile back I mentioned to you and some others in a post about watching some women at a company Christmas party as an escort to the woman I was seeing at the time. How feral and primordal they were out in the lobby watching not the men but the other women. There was a wild..look in their eyes as they gave the other women the once over in a quick scan..like radar sweeping very quickly. They saw everything they needed to see in a short quick scan. They were by looks ..establishing a wild feral pecking order.
Whitewave it was absolutely wild...even uncivilized!!
The correct term for it is Meeeeeaan!! That is precisely the word I have been looking for but never discovering. I keep using words like feral , primordal..et al.. But Meeeeeaann is exactly how to describe it. Meeeeaann...is exactly what I saw in these womens eyes. Not hidden....unfiltered...raw. Like that first womans fight ...I remember this because of the meanness. Some of these women in the lobby were educated and had degrees. Education did not make these women rise above this meeeaaness.
Well..anyways..thanks for opening my eyes to the correct word to describe it. I never would have come up with that word on my own. To much guy stuff blocking my thinking here.
My thanks to all for thier posts,
Orangetom
[edit on 11-5-2008 by orangetom1999]
Do you think the average male cannot think through this one.
I believe a large portion of society cannot, or choose not to get past themselves.
It looks good on paper as a thesis...how does this supporting role look in the face of abortion?
If all was done intentional, out of respect and honor for love. abortion would be out of the question.
Potential to heal the ills of the world?? Is that like Magic...being flashdanced through ..magically?? Who is going to be taking the RISK for all this to take place and stage this event....solving the ills of the world??
And I bring this point up out of the greatest respect.
Meaning, a baby who is nutured and raised by parents who intend for the child to have love has a step up. They are more likely to become the next nobel peace prize winner. I do not understand how risk applies.
This..Eyes..is textbook stereotyping. I can make this point about many women I have known.
I have not said that women can be dishonorable to their roles as mothers. Earlier in this thread I posted that I have two friends that have custody of their children because the mothers are dead beats. One even gave up her children, because she did not want the responsibility.
In my travels, I have encountered women who have sex willy nilly, drink like fish, do and give drugs to their children, allow their boyfriends to abuse their children, and all sorts of stuff.
This works on many men as long as they dont think outside of social defaults.
Out of curiousity, can you expand this please?
women dont always look attractive for men..they often do it as much against the other women.....status. This can be very primordal.
Women can be very competitive. Is it as though their appearance of beauty gives them an ego boost?Oh and Status is an illusion.
Can you elaborate more on the specifics of this declaration.??
When there is a power struggle, in the stead of a partnership. There is a tendency towards leverage. And this is not always the case, just making common gender specific examples. The man has his fists and money. The woman has her vagina, and food prepation skills. With holding of these this can be used, or the threat of.
Not in a default social set up or a default relationship and especially if one party does not know it is going on.
In my opinion, a healthy relationship has a couple that are individualy accountable.
I agree here. However..this does not conceal or discount that defaults are taking place...and are even becoming fashionable and marketable..a lifestyle for many.
Isn't it sad?
reply to post by eye open doors
You may have a point here. I am coming around to this position too in a heavily consumer oriented social structure. The fashion is to consume each other and think this is normal. Also to justify such..by defaults.
I posted;
you replied:
lol lol lol..you know ..Eyes...it has taken me several post to finally get a handle on the fingerprint of how you think. I'm getting it down now. Have you ever considered running for public office. You can run on the platform of Hope and Change.
I can tell. You know ..back earlier this year when I was working 12 hour shifts from 6pm to 6am in the morning I had a woman I know call me up when I got home..all in a panic her refrigerator went out. She knows I have a refrigeration certificate. She also knows I was working 12 hour days and the hours I was working. IN a panic she calls me up wanting me to come over and fix it for her. Alot of her and the kids food was in this refrigerator. I told her to call a repairman ...I was getting some sleep.
Understand the risk now?? or just her need??? Should I have let her default through on my knowlege, risk, and labor??
In otherwords Eyes..should I have let male expendability and disposability play through to its rightful and deserved defaults so that her and the children could continue to watch American Idol unstressed while I was at work that night short on everything including sleep/rest.
Not understanding how risk applies..is how male expendability and disposability happen and default through. Now ..if it is female expendability and disposability it is immoral and a crime of the worst kind.
Watch how this works..male expendability and disposability.
Here:
I think you meant....you have not said that women cannot be dishonorable to their roles as mothers. Ever occur to you or others that they are also dishonorable to the men who fathered these children...or do the men not exist..by default??? This concept would require some balance. The default is that the men are implicit and the women are explicit. It is actually.. by this process ..by default ..becoming that the children are also implicit.
you posted:
I replied:
you ask me to elaborate on this....the idea of social defaults..no problem. With many women this tends often to blind women to real female or femminine values in lieu of beauty/attractiveness. You know...beauty raises value in the marketplace...et al..etc etc. Especially to males who cannot think this through. The best years of her life and all that stuff. Many women pay for this on the other end of age if all they have invested in is looking attractive. They can easily become high maintenance. Especially if thier career is swapping thier attractiveness for the earnings to make life easier for her and the offspring..at great risk to the male.
For many men this would be considered an equal exchange. For some women this is more than equal. It easily defaults through unquestioned. It is not value nor a worthy default to me. I will raise the question.
If all a woman has invested in is beauty and attractiveness...and the biology runs out ...and it gets close to midnight Cinderella...I would be perfectly justified in getting rid of her for a woman with some Best years left...if beauty/attractivenes is so valuable.
No where in this default ...is the concept ever brought up about what RISKS a man is, often in ignorance, taking for access to this placebo.
Notice how I keep coming back to RISK?? Over and over again.??
Oh..I agree with you in that status is an illusion. Especially beauty status. Very deceiving. Especially if there are no other skills or knowlege to match...or compliment.
you are stereotyping here:
and here too:
LOL LOL ...Ive been up this road with numerous women trying to default through unquestioned.
I can cook...although I really like a fine meal prepared by a woman who cares. I do not come to a woman for cooking skills. I will not starve...or become manicly depressed. One more thing of importance here. There are a larger and larger number of women today for whom if they cannot go out and have dinner ...or microwave/fast food lane...they too are in bad straights. Microwave meals ..tv dinners etc ...in othewords technology have made many a womans skills unecessary and obselete in this field...food preparation arenas.
As to sex as a threat/leverage...this position presupposes that a mans sex/sexuality has no value in the marketplace. Only a womans sex has value. Men never do or give anything of value to a woman in sleeping with her. It is all one way ..the woman doing all the giving of any value. This is how so many women justify the stupidity of something like " You used me." This justification is also a default on a phoney placebo. Sexual leverage is also how many women begin the maneuver of swapping a mans value system with hers. Othewise how can she justify...."You Used Me" with a clear conscience.
I dont have any problem explaining to a woman that she is not sitting on the only one in town....if that is clearly the only skill in which she thinks is valuable. I know lots of women who will think and try to use this default ..dont you??? It just doesnt work on me.
Ive also taught this philosphy to numerous men with some intresting results. Most of the women were obviously not accustomed to a man being able to think this through....they were accustomed to managing/manipulating an oil shortage mentality among men..ie ..stereotype. In otherwords managing by default.
Eyes ..you can try this type of textbook stereotype explainations with most men..out here as rational ..it just doesnt work on me.
I will always come back with RISK!!
Thanks,
Orangetom
I believe a large portion of society cannot, or choose not to get past themselves.
You may have a point here. I am coming around to this position too in a heavily consumer oriented social structure. The fashion is to consume each other and think this is normal. Also to justify such..by defaults.
I posted;
It looks good on paper as a thesis...how does this supporting role look in the face of abortion?
you replied:
If all was done intentional, out of respect and honor for love. abortion would be out of the question.
lol lol lol..you know ..Eyes...it has taken me several post to finally get a handle on the fingerprint of how you think. I'm getting it down now. Have you ever considered running for public office. You can run on the platform of Hope and Change.
I do not understand how risk applies.
I can tell. You know ..back earlier this year when I was working 12 hour shifts from 6pm to 6am in the morning I had a woman I know call me up when I got home..all in a panic her refrigerator went out. She knows I have a refrigeration certificate. She also knows I was working 12 hour days and the hours I was working. IN a panic she calls me up wanting me to come over and fix it for her. Alot of her and the kids food was in this refrigerator. I told her to call a repairman ...I was getting some sleep.
Understand the risk now?? or just her need??? Should I have let her default through on my knowlege, risk, and labor??
In otherwords Eyes..should I have let male expendability and disposability play through to its rightful and deserved defaults so that her and the children could continue to watch American Idol unstressed while I was at work that night short on everything including sleep/rest.
Not understanding how risk applies..is how male expendability and disposability happen and default through. Now ..if it is female expendability and disposability it is immoral and a crime of the worst kind.
Watch how this works..male expendability and disposability.
Here:
I have not said that women can be dishonorable to their roles as mothers. Earlier in this thread I posted that I have two friends that have custody of their children because the mothers are dead beats. One even gave up her children, because she did not want the responsibility.
I think you meant....you have not said that women cannot be dishonorable to their roles as mothers. Ever occur to you or others that they are also dishonorable to the men who fathered these children...or do the men not exist..by default??? This concept would require some balance. The default is that the men are implicit and the women are explicit. It is actually.. by this process ..by default ..becoming that the children are also implicit.
you posted:
Women tend to place more importance on looking attractive. I feel that biology plays a roll in this
I replied:
I agree with you here...for purposes on which Whitewave elaborated. This often blinds many women to real female value...and substitutes ersatz value. This works on many men as long as they dont think outside of social defaults.
you ask me to elaborate on this....the idea of social defaults..no problem. With many women this tends often to blind women to real female or femminine values in lieu of beauty/attractiveness. You know...beauty raises value in the marketplace...et al..etc etc. Especially to males who cannot think this through. The best years of her life and all that stuff. Many women pay for this on the other end of age if all they have invested in is looking attractive. They can easily become high maintenance. Especially if thier career is swapping thier attractiveness for the earnings to make life easier for her and the offspring..at great risk to the male.
For many men this would be considered an equal exchange. For some women this is more than equal. It easily defaults through unquestioned. It is not value nor a worthy default to me. I will raise the question.
If all a woman has invested in is beauty and attractiveness...and the biology runs out ...and it gets close to midnight Cinderella...I would be perfectly justified in getting rid of her for a woman with some Best years left...if beauty/attractivenes is so valuable.
No where in this default ...is the concept ever brought up about what RISKS a man is, often in ignorance, taking for access to this placebo.
Notice how I keep coming back to RISK?? Over and over again.??
Oh..I agree with you in that status is an illusion. Especially beauty status. Very deceiving. Especially if there are no other skills or knowlege to match...or compliment.
you are stereotyping here:
The man has his fists and money.
and here too:
The woman has her vagina, and food prepation skills. With holding of these this can be used, or the threat of.
LOL LOL ...Ive been up this road with numerous women trying to default through unquestioned.
I can cook...although I really like a fine meal prepared by a woman who cares. I do not come to a woman for cooking skills. I will not starve...or become manicly depressed. One more thing of importance here. There are a larger and larger number of women today for whom if they cannot go out and have dinner ...or microwave/fast food lane...they too are in bad straights. Microwave meals ..tv dinners etc ...in othewords technology have made many a womans skills unecessary and obselete in this field...food preparation arenas.
As to sex as a threat/leverage...this position presupposes that a mans sex/sexuality has no value in the marketplace. Only a womans sex has value. Men never do or give anything of value to a woman in sleeping with her. It is all one way ..the woman doing all the giving of any value. This is how so many women justify the stupidity of something like " You used me." This justification is also a default on a phoney placebo. Sexual leverage is also how many women begin the maneuver of swapping a mans value system with hers. Othewise how can she justify...."You Used Me" with a clear conscience.
I dont have any problem explaining to a woman that she is not sitting on the only one in town....if that is clearly the only skill in which she thinks is valuable. I know lots of women who will think and try to use this default ..dont you??? It just doesnt work on me.
Ive also taught this philosphy to numerous men with some intresting results. Most of the women were obviously not accustomed to a man being able to think this through....they were accustomed to managing/manipulating an oil shortage mentality among men..ie ..stereotype. In otherwords managing by default.
Eyes ..you can try this type of textbook stereotype explainations with most men..out here as rational ..it just doesnt work on me.
I will always come back with RISK!!
Thanks,
Orangetom
LOL!!!
Oh my! A one line response. I'll have to fix that.
LOL!!!
Oh my! A one line response. I'll have to fix that.
LOL!!!
this whole conspiracy thing is a dud. everyone should just stick to the kind of relationship he wants with his partner whether its equality or
dependence or adaptation, whatever works... and concerning masculinity, if you wanna lift weights then go right ahead no one is stopping you but
don't ask people to admire you for doing so.
I wake up most mornnings drink a couple of Buds for breakfast and have a big chew of "Red Mans" on the way to work.
I try to stay as manley as possible and don't text message either.
I try to stay as manley as possible and don't text message either.
reply to post by RUFFREADY
I try to be manly as well thats why i participate in bar fights everyday. plus I only end up in the ER once a week anyway. I also like to do manly things like fix my car for no reason, because its like its a car the symbol of manliness without it i would be riding horses...unmanly. vroom vroom
I try to be manly as well thats why i participate in bar fights everyday. plus I only end up in the ER once a week anyway. I also like to do manly things like fix my car for no reason, because its like its a car the symbol of manliness without it i would be riding horses...unmanly. vroom vroom
lol lol lol, DuneKnight,
Bravo, I agree. Nicely said. I dont chew tobacco. Not much use for it. If a guy wants to chew ..no problem with me. I draw the line at Big Red Chewing Gum. I just dont think chewing tobacco is part of manly..nor chewing gum..for that matter.
Dont drink much beer either. Beer drinking is not part of my maleness. The beer companys will not make a living off me. Nor will the hard liquior companys. I will text message at times but dont like to spend hours on the phone...period. Say it or text it and done. Not a phoneaholic here.
Dont care for that male or female. Heavy drinking either. A drunk man is disgusting. A drunk woman is to me both disgusting and pitiful.
Repairing cars...I will repair them. NOt because of manliness but because I hate paying someone else to do it for me. Id rather spend the moneys on something other than a car.
Cutting the grass..I hate cutting grass..and yard work. I just hate it more paying someone else to do it for me. And I even have a riding lawnmower. Still hate cutting grass. The only thing which makes yardwork bearable to me is an invention called a Sony Walkman.
Most manhood to me is overated today. So too is most of what attempts to pass for womanhood.
Bravo DuneKnight..well said..well said.
Orangetom
Bravo, I agree. Nicely said. I dont chew tobacco. Not much use for it. If a guy wants to chew ..no problem with me. I draw the line at Big Red Chewing Gum. I just dont think chewing tobacco is part of manly..nor chewing gum..for that matter.
Dont drink much beer either. Beer drinking is not part of my maleness. The beer companys will not make a living off me. Nor will the hard liquior companys. I will text message at times but dont like to spend hours on the phone...period. Say it or text it and done. Not a phoneaholic here.
Dont care for that male or female. Heavy drinking either. A drunk man is disgusting. A drunk woman is to me both disgusting and pitiful.
Repairing cars...I will repair them. NOt because of manliness but because I hate paying someone else to do it for me. Id rather spend the moneys on something other than a car.
Cutting the grass..I hate cutting grass..and yard work. I just hate it more paying someone else to do it for me. And I even have a riding lawnmower. Still hate cutting grass. The only thing which makes yardwork bearable to me is an invention called a Sony Walkman.
Most manhood to me is overated today. So too is most of what attempts to pass for womanhood.
Bravo DuneKnight..well said..well said.
Orangetom
Originally posted by orangetom1999
YOu do understand, and Whitewave has graciously confirmed for me, that women are always in the survival mode.
I have been unfortunate in witnessing several women fights and it was quite shocking..the first one...very feral..even primordal..right out of the wildest primordal ooze. The first one left a lasting impression on me to this day.
I was right. You have no clue what a fight is. All fights are primordial, all are strugggles for survival, if it isnt its not a fight, its just a dominance challenge.
Why on earth would a woman want to fight in a manner as does a man?? It is quite obvious to me that most of them have no intrest in it. I have had women try to get physical with me in this womans manner. I have no problem sweeping thier feet right out and quickly from under them..nor putting them in an arm or wrist lock. What I worry about are those darned nails. Dude..they are quite feral with those nails.
Tell you what, new thread rule. If you've never been stabbed, shot, or jumped by multiple attackers, then dont try and pipe in about violence.
Theres nothing worse than listening to a virgin give sex advice.
I do know this about most women ...you threaten their children..and you are going to have a tiger by the tail and cannot let go. Woe to any man or other woman against a woman like this if they have a real weapon and know how to use it.
You mean like the Father I posted a link to earlier?
A Fathers Love
[edit on 5/12/2008 by Shazam The Unbowed]
lol lol lol..you know ..Eyes...it has taken me several post to finally get a handle on the fingerprint of how you think. I'm getting it down now.
I am curious, what is my fingerprint?
Have you ever considered running for public office. You can run on the platform of Hope and Change.
Honestly, I would like very much to have a carreer where I could create change and improve society. Infact it's my dream.
In otherwords Eyes..should I have let male expendability and disposability play through to its rightful and deserved defaults so that her and the children could continue to watch American Idol unstressed while I was at work that night short on everything including sleep/rest.
Is this another way of talking about enabling?
Not understanding how risk applies..is how male expendability and disposability happen and default through. Now ..if it is female expendability and disposability it is immoral and a crime of the worst kind.
Is this interpersonal risk? I was confused by your terminology.
Ever occur to you or others that they are also dishonorable to the men who fathered these children...or do the men not exist..by default???
Of course, both are accountable. It's best if they both understand this. Men exist, I am a man. I am more than a meal ticket, and the women I like know they are more than a body.
If all a woman has invested in is beauty and attractiveness...and the biology runs out ...and it gets close to midnight Cinderella...I would be perfectly justified in getting rid of her for a woman with some Best years left...if beauty/attractivenes is so valuable.
No where in this default ...is the concept ever brought up about what RISKS a man is, often in ignorance, taking for access to this placebo.
Shallow begets shallow. Looks only last so long. So anyone going into a reltionship strictly for looks are bound to be burned. Like the song Cannibals Hymn by Nick Cave and the Bad Seed says "Darling if you are going to dine with cannibals, sooner or later you're going to get eaten".
Notice how I keep coming back to RISK?? Over and over again.??
Life is a series of risk. Some calculate the risk, some follow their hearts.
Eyes ..you can try this type of textbook stereotype explainations with most men..out here as rational ..it just doesnt work on me.
I will always come back with RISK!!
I am just trying to learn and teach at the same time.
Originally posted by RUFFREADY
I wake up most mornnings drink a couple of Buds for breakfast and have a big chew of "Red Mans" on the way to work.
I try to stay as manley as possible and don't text message either.
this is pathetic... drinking from sun up to sun down and chewing on tobacco, which is a disgusting habit, should not be what defines you as a man and i believe we have gone over that earlier in the thread.
How does text messaging make you any less of a man?
reply to post by Shazam The Unbowed
You are sure about this? Most peoples,male and female, their struggles/fights for survival are daily in their labors and taking care of their familys. This is survival. Dont shortchange people for your provincal view of what constitutes manhood. I will easily demonstrate this for you and the readers with your next quote.
No Shazam. This is why you are not much different from Eyes Open Doors in your femminity. Swapping your value system for someone elses and thinking no one will notice it or that they will be intimidated by this tack....ie.. defaulted into silence such that it will play through unquestioned. This type of one upmanship is very similar to female competition. You see...a smart intelligent man chooses better locations to frequent than places where they will be stabbed, shot , or jumped by multiple attackers. This applies to a smart woman too.
He does not feel the need to demonstrate his manhood in such an unprofitable manner. In otherwords they are secure in thier manhood. He has no intrest in going places like an alley cat to be scarred and torn up for life in feral competition or meet such dubious company and then boast of it as some kind of standard. Be careful who you approach in this manner...many of us here can see in multiple dimensions/directions...not just one.
Like a poliltician, this looks good on paper or in smoke filled rooms. It is just not smart. Note carefully what I am going to tell Eyes Open Doors about a politician..but it applies to most of them. But you are corrrect about one thing from your previous post. It is not impressive.
One more thing, and I have told many women this too, I do not define my manhood or who I am by my sexuality. Being a man or a ,woman once again, is much more than sexualiity. A whole lot more!! This does not work on me nor am I wont to let it play through as intelligence or the high ground.
Pity...more people dont grasp this because politicians , educators, and social thinkers tend to use this device...sexualiity and all the trappings/devices of sexuality, to divide the sexes..not get them to work together.
yes...like the link you posted. It is a good post and thanks for the link. More stories like this should be posted but the PC media is not wont to do such.
I also recall reading of a woman doing similar at a train station when a famous politician arrived. The crowd surged twords the train carrying the people in the front of the platform onto the tracks. This woman's last despirate act was to toss her child clear before she was crushed to death by the train wheels. Her child survived. This is not strictly a male trait. This too was a sad story. But it demonstrates clearly..both storys... how far a parent will go in thier love and devotion to thier offspring. This is what I mean by more stories like this should be in the news as examples to us all and about a real and honest nobility...their last full measure of honest nobility.
Eyes open doors,
Your fingerprint to me is femminine. You are very indirect in your responses...like many women. This does not do well with people like Shazam. While I understand their response or reaction to your tack...I also make note of both of you two in your methods.
It is just the way I view or sense the world around me after viewing it for awhile. I tend to index these things in people and their posts in my search for Salt.
This statement of mine is a reference to Barack Obama...a politician I consider femminine. Hope and Change is one of his partys Mantras..no details..just fluff and slogans. But he is not alone in this. Many politicians are in fact just like this.
Caballero,
Well stated here ..well stated. Nicely done. I dont care if a man chews tobacco..as long as they purchase and support the habit themselves. Personally I am not into it. But dont try to tell me it is a definition of manhood. Or in my case ..Chewing Big Red gum...this too is not a standard of manhood.
Text messaging does not make one less of a man...but to me ..being a social phonaholic does.
Once again..nicely stated.
Thanks to all for thier posts,
Orangetom
[edit on 13-5-2008 by orangetom1999]
I was right. You have no clue what a fight is. All fights are primordial, all are struggles for survival, if it isnt its not a fight, its just a dominance challenge.
You are sure about this? Most peoples,male and female, their struggles/fights for survival are daily in their labors and taking care of their familys. This is survival. Dont shortchange people for your provincal view of what constitutes manhood. I will easily demonstrate this for you and the readers with your next quote.
Tell you what, new thread rule. If you've never been stabbed, shot, or jumped by multiple attackers, then dont try and pipe in about violence.
Theres nothing worse than listening to a virgin give sex advice.
No Shazam. This is why you are not much different from Eyes Open Doors in your femminity. Swapping your value system for someone elses and thinking no one will notice it or that they will be intimidated by this tack....ie.. defaulted into silence such that it will play through unquestioned. This type of one upmanship is very similar to female competition. You see...a smart intelligent man chooses better locations to frequent than places where they will be stabbed, shot , or jumped by multiple attackers. This applies to a smart woman too.
He does not feel the need to demonstrate his manhood in such an unprofitable manner. In otherwords they are secure in thier manhood. He has no intrest in going places like an alley cat to be scarred and torn up for life in feral competition or meet such dubious company and then boast of it as some kind of standard. Be careful who you approach in this manner...many of us here can see in multiple dimensions/directions...not just one.
Like a poliltician, this looks good on paper or in smoke filled rooms. It is just not smart. Note carefully what I am going to tell Eyes Open Doors about a politician..but it applies to most of them. But you are corrrect about one thing from your previous post. It is not impressive.
One more thing, and I have told many women this too, I do not define my manhood or who I am by my sexuality. Being a man or a ,woman once again, is much more than sexualiity. A whole lot more!! This does not work on me nor am I wont to let it play through as intelligence or the high ground.
Pity...more people dont grasp this because politicians , educators, and social thinkers tend to use this device...sexualiity and all the trappings/devices of sexuality, to divide the sexes..not get them to work together.
You mean like the Father I posted a link to earlier?
A Fathers Love
yes...like the link you posted. It is a good post and thanks for the link. More stories like this should be posted but the PC media is not wont to do such.
I also recall reading of a woman doing similar at a train station when a famous politician arrived. The crowd surged twords the train carrying the people in the front of the platform onto the tracks. This woman's last despirate act was to toss her child clear before she was crushed to death by the train wheels. Her child survived. This is not strictly a male trait. This too was a sad story. But it demonstrates clearly..both storys... how far a parent will go in thier love and devotion to thier offspring. This is what I mean by more stories like this should be in the news as examples to us all and about a real and honest nobility...their last full measure of honest nobility.
Eyes open doors,
Your fingerprint to me is femminine. You are very indirect in your responses...like many women. This does not do well with people like Shazam. While I understand their response or reaction to your tack...I also make note of both of you two in your methods.
It is just the way I view or sense the world around me after viewing it for awhile. I tend to index these things in people and their posts in my search for Salt.
Have you ever considered running for public office. You can run on the platform of Hope and Change.
Honestly, I would like very much to have a carreer where I could create change and improve society. Infact it's my dream.
This statement of mine is a reference to Barack Obama...a politician I consider femminine. Hope and Change is one of his partys Mantras..no details..just fluff and slogans. But he is not alone in this. Many politicians are in fact just like this.
Caballero,
this is pathetic... drinking from sun up to sun down and chewing on tobacco, which is a disgusting habit, should not be what defines you as a man and i believe we have gone over that earlier in the thread.
How does text messaging make you any less of a man?
Well stated here ..well stated. Nicely done. I dont care if a man chews tobacco..as long as they purchase and support the habit themselves. Personally I am not into it. But dont try to tell me it is a definition of manhood. Or in my case ..Chewing Big Red gum...this too is not a standard of manhood.
Text messaging does not make one less of a man...but to me ..being a social phonaholic does.
Once again..nicely stated.
Thanks to all for thier posts,
Orangetom
[edit on 13-5-2008 by orangetom1999]
Your fingerprint to me is femminine. You are very indirect in your responses...like many women.
So what is your point?
This does not do well with people like Shazam.
It wasn't my intention to do well by Shazam. I chose to use his reactions through his obvious insecurities to give me a place to post some of my beliefs.
Have you ever considered running for public office. You can run on the platform of Hope and Change.
Honestly, I would like very much to have a carreer where I could create change and improve society. Infact it's my dream.
This statement of mine is a reference to Barack Obama...a politician I consider femminine. Hope and Change is one of his partys Mantras..no details..just fluff and slogans. But he is not alone in this. Many politicians are in fact just like this.
Are you calling me a liar?
Since you request directness, I will dance like a man. I find your risk/default "philosophy" to be an oversimplification of matters. A cop out if you will.
Can you enroll me in believing otherwise?
[edit on 5/13/2008 by eye open doors]
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