The very real conspiracy against Freemasonry

Being investigated by the BBB is not the same, by far, as being investigated by the FBI or IRS.

True. Then again if they were being investigated by the FBI, hypothetically speaking, would you or I even know?

It would be ignorant to assume all the money you donate to any charity actually goes to charity. Usually it's around 40% or so of total procedes.

My responce.

Landers mentioned that the Shriners appropriated over 71% of the donated monies, equaling roughly $21.7 million U.S dollars, for personal intrigues such as travel, entertainment, and fraternal ceremonies.

And as far as I can see from the Shriners case, they did nothing illegal.

I disagree.

Thanks in advance,

Distracto

Originally posted by Distracto


Certianly. However, they do not call them Christian.

From the Cathechism of the Catholic Church, Section 838:

The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church.

This shows conclusively that the Roman Catholic Church consideres Protestants "honored by the name of Christian".

LOL. Wow. No one likes an ass.

Good debate.

Welcome to my Blist.

I'm honored!

Have a glorious day,

Distracto

reply to post by Masonic Light


Let the trolls be brother. Remember the old saying, don't argue with an idiot, he will only bring you to his level.

The topic: The very real conspiracy against Freemasonry.

who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized

The key word is properly. There are many different forms of baptism; sprinkling, submersion, etc. The name Christian is conferred upon CATHOLIC guidlines; which in turn conforms to Vatican ii/council of trent standards.

Furthermore, please re-read this post.

In no way can you possibly say that other denominations are accepted as Christian by catholics. Baptists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, and non-denominational Christians (among others) do not accept the authority of the pope; hence they are anathema.

Thanks in advance,

Distracto

Originally posted by Distracto

The key word is properly. There are many different forms of baptism; sprinkling, submersion, etc. The name Christian is conferred upon CATHOLIC guidlines; which in turn conforms to Vatican ii/council of trent standards.

"Properly baptized" refers to all mainstream Protestants. "Proper" concerns the Trinitarian formula (In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).

Therefore, the Roman Catholic Church do not consider Oneness Pentecostals and Jehovah's Witnesses to be Christians. They do consider Methodists and Presbyterians to be Christians.

In no way can you possibly say that other denominations are accepted as Christian by catholics.

Not only do I say it, but the official statement of the Catholic Church says it, as I quoted above.

Baptists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, and non-denominational Christians (among others) do not accept the authority of the pope; hence they are anathema.

The question of the authority of the pope does not define "Christian". The Roman Catholic Church defines "Christian" as one who has been properly baptized and confirmed (or made confession of faith). This applies to mainstream Protestants as well as Catholics and the Orthodox.

"Properly baptized" refers to all mainstream Protestants. "Proper" concerns the Trinitarian formula (In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).

The sign of the cross is not used in Protestant faiths (In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). In fact, the rituals for baptism are completly different.

Not only do I say it, but the official statement of the Catholic Church says it, as I quoted above.

My responce.

Nevertheless, our separated brethren, whether considered as individuals or as Communities and Churches, are not blessed with that unity which Jesus Christ wished to bestow on all those who through Him were born again into one body, and with Him quickened to newness of life- that unity which the Holy Scriptures and the ancient Tradition of the Church proclaim.

We are not "blessed with that unity.." hence the term "seperated brethren" instead of "fellow christian."

Try again.

Thanks in advance,

Distracto

Onomatology of distracto’s name, would seem to indicate the nature of his cause.

Further, particularly in the last page of this exchange, one finds distracto apparently undertaking to impart to his readers everything he knows that is not germane to the topic at hand.

The result is a topical treatment of dogmas of faith that may initially impress the reader as imminently informed. However, by understanding the structural methodology with which he has framed his argument, he has indeed only reinforced Skyfloating’s original premise.

edit to: correct the spelling of distracto's name

[edit on 7-5-2008 by Zeptepi]

Originally posted by Rockpuck

The topic: The very real conspiracy against Freemasonry.

I think the real conspiracy is that the Elks and the Eagles have gaming tables and bars. Just what is up with that? How did Masonry lose out on something like this?

The plot thickens.

To clarify:

Section 3 deals with "separated brethren" -- followers of Christian denominations which The document repeats the belief that the Roman Catholic church is the only true Christian church -- the only denomination which "has been endowed with all divinely revealed truth and with all means of grace."

A non-catholic is "christian", but not a true christian by Catholic Standards. Hence, the division between Catholic and Christian.

Additionally, the Unitatis Redintegratio states that only the Catholic church is endowed with divine truth.


Thank you in advance,

Distracto

Originally posted by Distracto


The sign of the cross is not used in Protestant faiths (In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).

Yes it is. In fact, the entire procedure of the Anglicans and Lutherans is practically identical to that of the Roman Catholics (and all Anglicans and Lutherans use the sign of the cross).

Try again.

No need to. You said that Catholics did not consider Protestants Christians. I demonstrated that you were in error by quoting from the Church's official Catechism. As far as I'm concerned, that's the end of it.

Originally posted by Illahee

Originally posted by Rockpuck

The topic: The very real conspiracy against Freemasonry.

I think the real conspiracy is that the Elks and the Eagles have gaming tables and bars. Just what is up with that? How did Masonry lose out on something like this?

The plot thickens.

We have a huge billiards room and a very nice bar, it may need to be refurbished but it's there.

We can't use it though.. alcohol is the devil!

(pool tables work but I can't play pool without a glass of rum and a cigar.)

Gambling is strictly forbiden here to.. we can't even do raffles! lol no joke..

And here people think we are more evil then all the others. I agree, it's the Elks and Eagles that run the world!

No need to. You said that Catholics did not consider Protestants Christians. I demonstrated that you were in error by quoting from the Church's official Catechism. As far as I'm concerned, that's the end of it.

And I countered successfully.

Good speaking to you,

Distracto

The question of the authority of the pope does not define "Christian". The Roman Catholic Church defines "Christian" as one who has been properly baptized and confirmed (or made confession of faith). This applies to mainstream Protestants as well as Catholics and the Orthodox.

Additionally, considering many denominations do not recieve the blessesd sacrament of Confirmation they cannot be considered true christians (by your own words.)

Have a good day,

Distracto

What does any of this have to do with the topic? Remember:

The very real conspiracy against Freemasonry.

Originally posted by Distracto
And I countered successfully.

Bollocks. It's clear to everyone here except your good self that you have delved into (fairly petty) semantics and hairsplitting when Masonic Light clearly demonstrated the Catholic Chruch accepts Protestants as being Christian.

Get over it. Move on. Back to the topic.

After having re-read the original post and done a little reading on the Net as well, I have to admit that, as a Mason, I'm fairly proud of our fraternity when I consider the list of historical "enemies" we have faced over the years: Facists, racists, totalitarian "Communists", the Inquisition, and other violent religious fundamentalists...

I'm curious as to how the hardcore anti-Masons feel about having such bedfellows in their zealous quest...

OK, "bedfellows" is harsh. Philosophical allies perhaps?

The Secret Purpose of this thread


A second purpose, ahidden one of this thread was to provoke anti-masons to present their best evidence in countering the topic. I looked forward to intrigue and mystery. Im a bit dissapointed that there is no evidence of a masonic conspiracy other than some rehashed quotes from a hundred year old book and something about some other group and their charity funds.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Not to mention Catholics is Evil bit..

Not sure what that had to do with ANYTHING what so ever..

I swear I don't intend to sound arrogant or mean in any way what so ever when I say this. When you look at an Antimasonic post.. and compare it to a Masonic post.. I think it is clear to see that there is a .... difference which, imo, makes up the biggest divide between those who fear Masonry, and those who partake in it or do not fear it.

I don't want to say it's an intelligence factor, because .. it might not be. However the difference clearly has a level to do with understanding and creates it's own thought process which is shrewd to say the least..

The other clearly noticeable difference is.. that the antimasons do NOT intend to ever change their way of thinking. They are set in their ways, they are consumed with hate, and never intend to "change" or accept reality.

It's terribly sad being on the inside and reading the absurdness that some people go to great lengths to believe in. Especially when you know they are lies.

Some have an agenda. A blatant agenda.. like Spirit7/stompk/straightenarrow/what ever he goes by now. OR Chadandrew/hippo/freight.

Or maybe they are all the same I don't know. Odd that those with a set agenda make different names to compliment themselves to further their own agenda.

If that is not evidence of a conspiracy against Masonry, what is?

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Don't make me bring Flyersfan in here!

Oh Lord! I have a reputation! Okay ... that's fine and good.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
The topic: The very real conspiracy against Freemasonry.

It's really amazing how fast a subject can go from Freemasonry to highly inaccurate posts about the Catholic faith. That being said - YES I think it is very possible that there is a conspiracy against Freemasonry. I also think that there could be a consipracy within the higher ranks of Freemasonry against the Catholic faith. The thing is that we are dealing with a somewhat secret society - Freemasonry, and a corporation - The Catholic Church. Neither one is going to let it's corporate/secret society secrets out to the general public. - IMHO

In no way can you possibly say that other denominations are accepted as Christian by catholics. Baptists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, and non-denominational Christians (among others) do not accept the authority of the pope; hence they are anathema

Acceptance of papal authority has nothing to do with the catholic church recognizing someone as 'christian'.

Originally posted by Distracto
only the Catholic church is endowed with divine truth.

WRONG (again). The Catholic Church says that the Catholic Church is the only one with the FULLNESS of divine truth. It says that all religions have some elements of divine truth.

This is not unlike all the other faiths - everyone thinks they are the one to get it all right and that others are lacking in some area or other.

Distracto - all your statements about the Catholic faith show a severe lack of understanding of it. I highly suggest that you read the Catechism.