The very real conspiracy against Freemasonry

Originally posted by seawave
just get to know your Tubal cain word and your in

Yes, becasue after reading this thread, its YOU Im going to take Advice from concerning the masons.

hot danm here we go again I must say its the same drill again and again no matter what the intension was at first it ends up claim vs claim always!

so here is my conclusion you can only know what you have experienced otherwise its just what some have written down vs what others have written down. Like *IF* there is an inner core that control goverment, international banking, the media and has there hands on education and development it must be possible to hide facts especially if you are the ones giving official fact and preserved data! but that dosen't make it the truth I mean if the kennedy speach dosen't exist in the official files then it could have been removed could it not ? and if one makes a claim with out official aproveal he gets taken down by four that has official aproveal who do you belive? does that make it so?

Now again this is something I have read can't provide any sources but here it goes : certain scientist have argued that the new insight into qantum physics makes older things like the relativity E=mc"2 obsolete meaning many things official was wrong* even though people have claimed this long before it was accepted. Take Nicolai tesla as an example a mand ahead of his time. I am no scientist so how can I tell? I can only read to get an understanding of things and later that understanding is officialy refuted.. but 10 years after, the official explanation was wrong so the nut case turns out to be ahead of the current way of thinking.

On the flipside If you have the control to alter information it could also be done the other way around like the OP suggest...I would say both is a possebility at the end of the day.

regarding anti masonic material I find it funny that all the hidden wisdom is always exsplained in *a new book* meaning profit to the one making it .
If the information is for the best of humanity should it not be free so that all can learn? yet it is never the case..

In terms of symbology i find it strange that most of the esoteric symbology goes back to the time of the pyramids so to say that the freemasons was established in what 1700-1800 is not what i belive
each his own i supose, and just the fact that alot of the interier of the lodges/buildings has egyptian statues symbols ect gives a good idea that
maybe its older...be it for good or bad who can tell except the ones in power? but many says its gonna be alright in the end so who cares? enlightment should befall us all at some point and the world know true peace yada yada yada! if not KaBooM all is dead so what ? if its destiny we can't do nothing about it so why worry ? if its not destiny and we make the calls its our choice to live or die. and again if there is a creator/god then no worries its all planned . if there is no creator and life end when you die permenetly, then life has no meaning nothing we do matters since its all ends regardless. If we are part of the universal thought and all is one, then when you are gone you get to restart the game so no problems... guess I will stop speculating since that is all everything is IMO. Bottom line what do any of us realy know and does it realy matter ?

On a side note am I the only one that things society as we know it is pointless? work= stupid waste of your life time and don't see no problem in death. Maybe i get to go one through the layers of dimensions or maybe there is nothing.. just like sleeping when you cant remember your dreams and so what all i do right now is things i hate yet i must in order to survive, this forum is a small escape but its there..... for Iam nothing and nothing is me, that is all and all is nothing...btw Iam manic depressive

but is that a disease or another point of view.....
ok Now i realy gonna stop i always end in this kind of thing sorry for typos and all that talk about existence but that is at the base of it all I would suggest

Who knows what to believe anymore. What could any of us truly do, to stop a world agenda? Telling people, yeah right. If top level Masons have a world conquering agenda, telling your(probably stranger) neighbor living next to you, isn't going to accomplish anything, except ridicule.

This entire world will fold, under a jackboot, or a plasma burst.

Because the whole of mankind, cannot trust itself.

And refuses to unite, refuses it's neighbors, continues in racially motivated ignorance.

Has so many religious cultural taboos, that the lie of separation keeps us all worldwide, apart.

This is how the one percent, will survive, and see the stars.
By controlling and manipulating all of the above.
We are all fodder, grist for the mill, and there is no hope.
Live as happily as you can, for as long as you can.
Moments of bliss, for the coming years, probably will be, for most of us, our happiness.

Something Wicked this way Comes.

Originally posted by seawave
Also why do all presidents have to be 33 degree, and all nasa astronauts?

Ever heard of Sally Ride, first American woman in space? Or Kathryn Sullivan, first American woman to walk in space? Anna Fisher, Kathy Thornton, Mae Jemison, and yes even the crazy one who was stalking one of the other astronauts...all astronauts; none Masons. Were you high when you wrote this, or are you just this enlightened in your natural state? Either way, stop posting stupid statements.

It's good to see you posting this article about Freemasonry. Those who seen in it nothing but a demonic conspiracy to rule the world and control individuals are very far off base. Keep up the good work. THINK FOR YOURSELF. QUESTION AUTHORITY.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Extreme and Unjustified Paranoia is a mental illness

Psychosis is a generic psychiatric term for a mental state often described as involving a "loss of contact with reality." People suffering from it are said to be psychotic.

However, most people have unusual and reality-distorting experiences at some point in their lives, without being impaired or even distressed by these experiences. For example, many people have experienced visions of some kind, and some have even found inspiration or religious revelation in them.[3]

Psychosis may involve delusional beliefs, some of which are paranoid in nature

Even in the case of an acute psychosis, people may be completely unaware that their vivid hallucinations and impossible delusions are in any way unrealistic

Pardon me if I am wrong, but this type of posting is actually counter-productive to your case. It is just a fancy way of calling people names.
It is a childish thing to do.
The whole thing with free-masonry ; the main reason why people distrust them and societies like them, is that its always a bunch of condescending, self-important people who believe they are better than others and because of their superiority, they are better equipped to make decisions about weighty questions. They see it as their duty to 'enlighten' the less-informed masses.
Freemasons believe in a supreme being and claim they are descended from ancient and important societies, dating from way before the birth of christ, so its not the christian god they believe in.
They believe in a structured, hierarchical society which relates and spreads information thru initiations (that are secret to any but those initiated in that level) and symbolic representations.
They claim to have knowledge of and make us of magic.
They withhold this information from others, who are not inititiated.

While it is all probably not a conspiracy, the structure of masonry itself, in my opinion, is one of trying to establish a paternally ruled, exclusive, highly organized society.
My own opinion is that the only teacher is nature and the only way to learn from 'her' is thru self-experience, and freedom.
Structured hierarchical society is what has made this planet to be on its way to doom. The secrecy and therewith the misunderstanding of the nature of these societies is in itself the reason that people mistrust masons.
Anyway in my opinion it is very smart to mistrust secret societies that claim to have superior knowledge and magic.
If their knowledge is so superior, it should ofcourse be evident in their works. and their superior handling of situations and problems. Which I believe it is not....
I always wonder about primitive peoples, if their knowledge is so inferior, I would really like to know why they have been and are still living in such a balance with nature and why is it that 'superior' structured society is such a mess and destroys nature at the rate it is doing that.
To me these groups are just a bunch of people who echo the older ones who act important. They are made up of people who need hierarchy, because they themselves have not found the key to enjoyment of the self.
To belong to a society like this makes the members feel important and gives them, ofcourse, a feeling to belong to a 'family' that matters. It is the same reason why people join religions, political parties and gangs. To be a part of a larger body. To have more impact than a single person. To have the feeling that they are doing better than average. And ofcourse to be relatively untouchable, becuase they have a group behind them.
My thoughts are that man will not fully grow up by being breast-fed the things he otherwise has to find out by himself.

To think that the masons are behind the evils of the planet is to give them way too much credit. But it cant be denied that they are influential.

reply to post by dervishmadwhirler


And anyway, all this squirming to defend freemasonry has the opposite effect on those who are suspicious. Especially the way it is done; by dissing people and trying to tell everyone they are crazy, etc. Bully-tactics mostly make the point of the opposite party.
My grandfather used to be a mason and what he has shown me about Freemasonry hasnt made me very positive about their intentions.
While probably not evil, they are quite elitist and repressive. To be born into a masonic family, for many people has not been very free and open.
My dad remembered having to play with card-games full of masonic symbols and play games full of structurizing lessons. Lots of evenings when his dad was out to 'important meetings of the order.'
We also clearly remember the way the relationship between men and women was perceived;the man being the head of the family, the woman subservient to him....All subservient to the supreme being, whoever that is.
Suiffice it to say that I do not share their opinions on a lot of subjects.

I AM getting a bit more suspicious concerning the so-called good that freemasons do; the motivation behind their charities can very well be world-domination and control.
I rerckon they will not support re-forestation of the Amazon, reverting to natural religion, re-establishing a balance with nature, minimizing industry and pollution, etcetera.
While many of the ideas of masons are positive, they fail to ensure me of their worth to mankind. Just like any religion. Or political party.
To me the best and highest form of order is always Nature herself.
The supreme being, the cause and goal of life are and will in my opinion always be personal quests to find out. To learn a predefined definition of life means to be the people before you; their understanding in itself is always old and not your own. Principles can ofcourse be taught, butas there are no absolutes in understanding, the bulk of learning has to be done personally.
Anyway, this is an interesting thread, I like the subject and the responses.

Originally posted by a-being-?
certain scientist have argued that the new insight into qantum physics makes older things like the relativity E=mc"2 obsolete meaning many things official was wrong*

Funny E=m"2 was working just fine last week, when I was at the reactor.

reply to post by dervishmadwhirler

The truth be know most masons I have meet in the 18 years that I have been a mason are quite humble. Many of them have done great things with their lives, yet are quiet about it. Many give a great deal of money to chairity, yet don't ever claim it on their taxes.

Since I have been reading posts at ATS,I have seen many people who were somewhat anti-manson, end up joining Freemasonry. So I guest definding Masonry must do some good.



[edit on 6-5-2008 by lost in the midwest]

Originally posted by dervishmadwhirler

Pardon me if I am wrong, but this type of posting is actually counter-productive to your case. It is just a fancy way of calling people names.
It is a childish thing to do.

I respect and understand some anti-masons and know "where they are coming from" because Ive had moments (albeit as a teenager) where I thought similarly.

When I however, realize that some are touching the edges of sanity, this respect is replaced with compassion and some embrassment.

In other words, when someone accuses me directly of being in league with satan and and permissive of the most criminal acts...I wouldnt respond with "how dare you accuse me of that" but with a sense of compassion for the person who has lost touch with reality.

And this is not actually funny. Mental illness is not a joke. Crime (libel, slander) is not a joke. When conspiracy-theoriy turns into stuff like this it becomes a social issue we all have to deal with...masons and non-masons alike.

The fact that so many here are trivializing, downplaying and ignoring the beginning-signs of psychosis and criminal behaviour is worrisome.



[edit on 6-5-2008 by Skyfloating]

I would love to hear the opinions of our anti-masonic posters here on this:

How do you explain that everything you accuse masons of doing and being, is actually being done by anti-masons?

Does this have anything to do with "point a finger at others and five are pointing at yourself"?

First off I'd like to say that a feeble attempt to justify freemasonry on a conspiracy forum is ludicrous at best. In fact, non-Masons should question both the OP's motive and the validity of his/her thread to begin with.

In fact, I've had the pleasure of speaking with Freemasons on this forum only to be berated after examining so-called dogmatic truths and exposing to people what these truths really are- pseudo-enlightenment attained under false pretext.

Its sad that you feel you can make claims for the whole of your order. Your knowledge is limited to your jurisdiction and your individual rite; as no one mason or non-mason can attain knowledge in every aspect of the craft. Chances are you know little of the rituals and practices of the White Shine of Jerusalem if you are a Scottish Rite Mason. Likewise, a York rite mason knows little of the Ancient and Accepted order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine. Even if you were a member of multiple rites and affiliates no one man could oversee all lodges and temple. It is impossible.

Unfortunately, Masons tend not to make distinctions about Masonry, or its affiliates, until they are forced to; yet another tactic used as a last resort to distance or separate themselves from guilty parties. If no distinction can be made then the individual mason asks other masons to assist the "widow's son."

Following this, every attempt is made to discredit the debating non-mason. If this is not possible then a Straw man tactic is used to blur the non-masons argument. Then, the misinterpreted argument is debunked by the mason(s) fairly easily. After this, the debating non-mason is ridiculed.

Furthermore, the reputation of Freemasonry in the hearts and minds of the everyday individual is well-deserved by way of their own previous and present actions. For example, vast propaganda campaigns have been launched, at Freemasonry's own discretion, to try and blur the lines between truth and lie. One should ask himself, whether mason or non-mason, why an Order, supposedly without blemish, would resort to propaganda.

The History Station, for one, constantly airs pro-masonic propaganda; whereby selected Masons debunk misinterpreted 25+ year old arguments. Of course no knowledgeable Non-Mason is present- as they are not paying to challenge non-masons arguments. Instead their intentions are only to increase their plummeting membership- membership at levels far below their own fancy. Movies like National Treasure try and bewilder audiences with astonishing tales of Masonic gallantry just as video games like Assassin's Creed or Dark Messiah explore fabricated Masonic-like legend and lore.

The OP speaks of good will through philanthropy? Its sad that so much money is donated to an organization such as the Shriners when they have a tendency for substandard business practices. Many allegations have been made against them which lead to an investigation by the BBB.

One of these allegations stem back to an investigation conducted by the Orlando Sentinel in 1985. Once the investigation was concluded, a respected columnist employed by the Sentinel, named Ann Landers, wrote about some of these findings. Landers mentioned that the Shriners appropriated over 71% of the donated monies, equaling roughly $21.7 million U.S dollars, for personal intrigues such as travel, entertainment, and fraternal ceremonies.

There is so much more to be told. All in time.

Sincerely,

Distracto

-Ta.Tk.Ts-

reply to post by Distracto


First, I would hardly call the Freemason's works on ATS to be "feeble". In fact, we are sometimes reprimanded for being to strong. Scared all the Anti's away.

When it comes down to it, the Anti-Masonic mentality is based purely on speculation, assumption and an over active imagination.

As Sky said, there are conspiracies, no doubt, I believe Sky and I share a few of those beliefs. However, there is no grand Masonic conspiracy, and I have never seen proof, or even probable evidence to suggest that one exist.

What we have is essentially you-tube junkies who watched one to many videos. Now they believe their intelligence and insight into a world they don't belong to is far superior to the actual men who are indeed Masons. I find it perplexing that someone with no relations to a Masonic lodge has the audacity to try and tell me they know more about the Craft then I. I find it ludicrous that people can watch a Youtube video and accept it hands down as fact. I find it preposterous that some of these Anti Masons preach, no, they scream that mind control is out there, that we spread propaganda, that you can't believe anything people tell you.......

Yet it was watching one or two youtube videos that made them think this way. It was accepting as fact the words of Ike, Schneoble, and Jones. I find it hysterical, that those in a frenzy over Freemasonry and our evil deeds fell victim to the VERY SAME thing they preached against. Some punk with a webcam showed you something exciting, a little dangerous, with the promise that your life is more exciting then a Hollywood movie.

And y'all ate it up. You made them rich doing it. You became suspicious and cast down an entire people through bigotry and unfounded hate. Freemasonry is not dangerous, but blind ignorance is.

Anti-masons make the assumption that when another Mason is in trouble, all Masons will help. And guess what, you are right. When a Mason comes ill, falls on hard times, be it financial or I have even seen efforts for a Mason who was simply depressed. If you think something is wrong with that, then my view of you and your kind may have just worsened. You suggest, without evidence, and through uneducated assertions of stupidity, that there are "guilty parties" within our organization. I cannot tell you every Mason is innocent, I am yet to meet a man anywhere who did not have some kind of skeleton in his closet. However, I have never seen, heard of, or found considerable evidence that there is a corrupt lodge operating under Regular Freemasonry. But what do I know, I am just a lowly Mason and would surely never know. You would though... Alex Jones told you so, it must be true.

All of your assertions are baseless, vile vomit regurgitated from statistics that have no factual truth behind them. All while on this high pedestal of self righteousness, oh how I wish I had the intellectual insight to goingons of a society that I belong to, and you do not. Your words have been repeated, over and over again, a redundant cycle that keeps replaying it's self here on ATS by the Anti Masonic crowd. Nothing you say is original, nothing you say is backed by fact. Nothing that you, or any anti Mason can say would change my view of the craft, an inside view unlike your own.

But I have to wonder, again like I always do when I see some bigot shout his mouth off with incorrect information he gathered some obscure webvideo.. how you can honestly believe your self to be right. Usually your kind is pompous and arrogant, who believe themselves endowed with knowledge that no one else has. I honestly think you get a feeling of self importance and that others need you and your fictional tales. Maybe it's the logic I employ for my self that says if I don't belong to something, I should make judgements as to how it works on the inside. And that's just the thing. You are not a Mason, you probably never will be, in fact, I doubt you are man enough to even step foot in a Masonic lodge, yet you have an aura of self superior knowledge.

It's laughable at best, however I find it sad that an organization of such historical importance, that can offer a philosophy so desperately needed in this society, is ridiculed, mocked, insulted and defamed. And that is sad. And so are you.

[edit on 5/6/2008 by Rockpuck]

reply to post by Rockpuck


Very well said brother,
But it’s the mere fact that they will never change. They will always fear the unknown and will still come up with excuses as to why the masons are controlling the mass society, even though they have no real evidence or proof of that matter.
I think it's come to the point where we are just beating a dead horse with a lead pipe, and that no matter what we say or tell them, they won’t change their views. It’s sad that they cannot be as open-minded as they were when they first dwelled into anti-Masonic conspiracies, and still contain that open-mindness towards our words. When I see anti-masons blare off insults or false accusations I just laugh and sit back and say to myself "if only they knew what we do, would they truly have a bowel movement in their own pants."

It's ridiculous that we even have to defend freemasonry from people like this. It doesn’t make any sense either. I think the whole Masonic conspiracy is laughable and that some of these "stories" or "thoughts" that they conjure up, are psychotic to say nonetheless.
Geez if you want to figure out masonry. JOIN. we aren't suppose to solicit freemasonry, but seriously, if you want to find out what masonry is about join, and see what its like. You will be surprised how you’re David Icke and outrageous anti-Masonic stories still hold water when you see what masonry is really about.


[edit on 6-5-2008 by bushidomason]

Originally posted by Distracto
First off I'd like to say that a feeble attempt to justify freemasonry on a conspiracy forum is ludicrous at best. In fact, non-Masons should question both the OP's motive and the validity of his/her thread to begin with.

Is that so?

Your knowledge is limited to your jurisdiction

Is that so?

Unfortunately, Masons tend not to make distinctions about Masonry

Is that so?

There is so much more to be told

Is there?

Im still waiting for an honest anti-mason to stop by here.

reply to post by bushidomason


All I can say Brother is that, I once believed in conspiracies, and I know of 2 other Masons on ATS who joined the Craft like my self through ATS and talking to Masons like ML, Trinity and Apak.

And when I get U2U's from members saying they where completely wrong and are now considering joining a lodge because of what I or another Mason on ATS has said. Well that makes all the redundant debating well worth it.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Yesss and that’s exactly why I came on here too, is to change the views of some so that they may reconsider freemasonry, and see what it’s really worth. I have always gone on ATS before I joined and read constantly about freemasons for over 3 years I only joined recently so that I could shed some light as well.
I mean that post mostly for those who are resilient (e.g. Cutbothways, AndrewATS etc...)
But it is good to hear that there are changes in view of the craft. We need good thinkers and smart people like the people on ATS in lodge. All the better for a call for reform later in the years.

Kudos to Dervish, excellent posts. I don't think I've seen you here before, so welcome to the forum. I don't agree with all you've written, but it was certainly well thought out, unlike the majority of anti-Masonic posts as of late.

Originally posted by dervishmadwhirler
The whole thing with free-masonry ; the main reason why people distrust them and societies like them, is that its always a bunch of condescending, self-important people who believe they are better than others and because of their superiority, they are better equipped to make decisions about weighty questions. They see it as their duty to 'enlighten' the less-informed masses.

This is really not the case, but I do indeed agree that, for whatever reason, some anti-Masons hold that conception and it colors their view of the Masonic institution. Why exactly they hold that view in the first place, I have no idea; but it cannot be denied that the conception is clung to by a majority of critics of Freemasonry.

Freemasons believe in a supreme being and claim they are descended from ancient and important societies, dating from way before the birth of christ, so its not the christian god they believe in.

This is not entirely accurate. I personally do not believe in the God of the Calvinist or Southern Baptist, for example....but probably most Masons do.

Some Masons have claimed that Freemasonry descends from more ancient societies. Modern scholarship has mostly discredited that claim. It is probably more accurate to say that Freemasonry has been influenced by some ancient societies, rather than having descended from them.

They believe in a structured, hierarchical society which relates and spreads information thru initiations (that are secret to any but those initiated in that level) and symbolic representations.
They claim to have knowledge of and make us of magic.
They withhold this information from others, who are not inititiated.

When discussing Masons, it is important not to get stuck in the "they" category; Masons have very differing opinions on such things, just like everybody else.

Personally, I support a hierarchical society based on Plato's ideas of meritocracy. Other Masons would disagree.

Also. very few Masons know anything at all about Magick, even though Magick and Freemasonry share some symbols in common, which makes Magick an interesting study for Freemasonry (and Freemasonry an interesting study for Magicians).

While it is all probably not a conspiracy, the structure of masonry itself, in my opinion, is one of trying to establish a paternally ruled, exclusive, highly organized society.

Masonry does not attempt to establish any society outside of its own household. I personally believe that the Masonic system of government is the most enduring and perfect, even if only an ideal.

My own opinion is that the only teacher is nature and the only way to learn from 'her' is thru self-experience, and freedom.

This is a doctrine held by some of the Masonic fraternity's most noted thinkers, including Mackey, Pike, and many others. It is one of the reasons that Freemasonry was condemned by the Church for teaching "a religion of naturalism" (see anti-Masonic papal bull Humanum Genus).

Structured hierarchical society is what has made this planet to be on its way to doom.

Hierarchy, in some form, is a law of nature. There are no living creatures on earth that do not exist within some form of hierarchy. It isn't structure or hierarchy per se that causes problems. What causes the trouble is *bad* and *corrupt* structure and hierarchy. If hierarchy is based on wealth, as it is in our society, it will become both bad and corrupt. If hierarchy is based on merit, wisdom, and virtue, structure is good and fruitful.

Anyway in my opinion it is very smart to mistrust secret societies that claim to have superior knowledge and magic.

It should be noted that Freemasonry makes neither of those claims.

Hello everyone,

I would like to first link to my original post.

RockPuck Said

It was accepting as fact the words of Ike, Schneoble, and Jones.

Sorry, but I'm not at all familiar with the aforementioned individuals, or their views on the craft.

***
Distracto/I Said

Your knowledge is limited to your jurisdiction and your individual rite; as no one mason or non-mason can attain knowledge in every aspect of the craft.

Skyfloating said

Is that so?

Yes, it is.

***
Rockpuck Said

Freemasonry is not dangerous, but blind ignorance is.

Blind ignorace would be the lack of debate.

***
Skyfloating Said

Im still waiting for an honest anti-mason to stop by here.

RockPuck Said

I doubt you are man enough to even step foot in a Masonic lodge, yet you have an aura of self superior knowledge.

Distracto I/Said

Following this, every attempt is made to discredit the debating non-mason. If this is not possible then a Straw man tactic is used to blur the non-masons argument. Then, the misinterpreted argument is debunked by the mason(s) fairly easily. After this, the debating non-mason is ridiculed.

***
Rockpuck said

Anti-masons make the assumption that when another Mason is in trouble, all Masons will help. And guess what, you are right.

Thank you for agreeing; though it is quite obvious.

***

Sincerly,

Distracto

-Ta.Tk.Ts-

reply to post by Distracto


Seriously? That's it..

I don't know why, I expected more from someone who wanted a .. ahem .. debate.

reply to post by Distracto


May you find relief from antagonism. May you find peace. My you find wisdom, strength and beauty.