Intelligence agent shot by police in broad daylight after high-speed chase

The
link to the complaint filed by his wife.

From the complaint.

10. The two officers who shot at Roland have sustained disciplinary records including suspensions from duty for offenses including theft, violent striking of a prisoner, failure to abide by laws, not being truthful, insubordination and speeding.

Not the type of actions one would expect from an officer.

In reading the posting in the chron.com blog from readers, I get the impression most feel that if the man ran he deserved to be shot. Glad I am very seldom in that city.

Originally posted by roadgravel
In reading the posting in the chron.com blog from readers, I get the impression most feel that if the man ran he deserved to be shot. Glad I am very seldom in that city.

Absurd isn't it? "If you run you should be shot" is typical of the herd mentality.

Would people have preferred that he use his second option? Rather than run from the police or whoever, he would have to try to take them out. By running he was possibly trying to avoid having to inflict harm on people who were not directly involved in whatever went down. It is a possibility. Besides, it almost looks like those officers had orders to kill him, so unfortunately he likely should have used the other option anyhow.

The herd will never understand the individual and the choices and circumstances surrounding the individuals decisions. You could be an outstanding father, husband, and community member, but the second you defend yourself against unruly and unjust actions by an 'officer of the fiat law', the herd views you as a criminal. There is only one correct action to take when being apprehended by the fiat system: resistance. If that has to be in the form of a 12GA buckshot through the vital organs, so be it. Though it would be better to flee and disappear in most cases, thereby inflicting less harm on the uninvolved. Though by blindly attempting to apprehend based only on orders to do so from above, the officers give up their right to remain unharmed. It's a viscous circle.

reply to post by Ionized


Another point that surprises me is that if he did reach into his vehicle (this is still up in the air), why is is OK to be shot in the back. If the police can lose their cool and get emotionally charged by the chase leading to mistakes on their part, what about the citizen. Could the unusually circumstance of being stopped or confusion with officer commands not cause a person to make what is perceived as an improper movement. This is to be written off as stuff happens.

If a person is exiting the vehicle and an officer runs up and slams the door and knocks the person to the ground, might not that cause odd actions on the victim's part. If the officer is that close, why was the man not secured. Well, I guess he was by firearm.

Edit: sp



[edit on 5/15/2008 by roadgravel]

I'd say the police were coerced by someone over their radio into believing Carnaby was armed and dangerous and they were told to use deadly force. Whoever was calling the shots only wanted to use those mysterious guys in camo fatigues as a last resort. Much better to have the cops do it.

Carnaby was a dead man and he knew it.

Peace

reply to post by Dr Love


I got one question....

If the Police officers were the assents, How did they know for SURE that Carnaby was going to die from only ONE shot in the back wouldn't you think if it was so important for them to fulfill their duty to kill him they would have shot him a few more times at the least?


-Alien

reply to post by Alien Abduct


It's a valid question and I'll answer it like this. None of us really knows for sure he was only shot once. The information given to the press for mass consumption is most likely not accurate. Look how they destroyed his credibility when we here at ATS were able to find enough information (available to the public BTW) to show that Carnaby had the connections to be who he claimed to be. Doesn't mean he was mind you, but there is evidence that the media obviously doesn't want to touch.

When I say "Carnaby was a dead man and he knew it", what I meant is that he knew that once he was in custody there were a myriad of ways he could've been gotten to. Ending it right there was probably in the best interests of those concerned. Just so happened it played out like that.

Peace

New poster (I like the anon feature BTW) LOOOONG time lurker.....

This reminds me of the episode of "CSI: Miami" this week. Where there was a fake, yet frantic phone call to police department that got SWAT to storm a house.

My personal oppinion is that someone made a similar call to the HPD to get them to treat him as armed and dangerous. He probably reached for his cell to hav them talk to whomever eh was on the phone with to get them to back off.

I'm still wondering if we'll EVER find out his true background. Clearly he was important enough to be chased and probably killed, jsut wondering why?

I dont' know why, but this case is so interesting to me, yet seems to have
gotten little/no MSM coverage beyone the first week.

That's my 2cents. Thanks!

Now this is a guy that was somebody or at least it seems likely that he was somebody. So, therefore his case gets some attention.

So, just imagine how many nobodies like us get taken out by the Government and their story never even makes it to ATS for our analysis.

You people better watch how far you stick your nose in somethings because before you know it your whole head is in it and it gets cut off.

-Alien

Hey hey hey... no need to threaten people (which was the tone of that).

And come on, I've read stuff on this board long enough to know that, yes the "letter agencies" probably read and even post on here, but they have bigger fish to fry than posters on ATS. Besides there is enough High School bantering on here betweeen members that it seems they wouldn't need to go and threaten people or do a dis info campaign. We/you

That being said back to the actual topic....(sorry mods, but i needed to vent on that a little, from reading the weekly "ATS is run by the CIA threads, plus that seemed a tad threatening)

Back on track..
I'm not, nor do I recomend that anyone else, digs into this. it's not getting attention for a reason. Clearly he was either a) somebody worth covering stuff up about or b) a nut job/con artist that they don't want to get any more attention than it already has.

Interesting either way.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS

Back on track..
I'm not, nor do I recomend that anyone else, digs into this. it's not getting attention for a reason. Clearly he was either a) somebody worth covering stuff up about or b) a nut job/con artist that they don't want to get any more attention than it already has.

Interesting either way.

So, are you saying "Nothing to see here? Move along?" That's exactly what causes some of us to feel a bit ... Annoyed.

Yet another conspiracy story that involves the CIA!

I am by no means saying there is nothing to see here move a long. If that was the case I wouldn't be interesting in what is happening to begin with

All I'm saying is I don't recomend people calling the CIA and asking "hey I read on line.. XYZ"

I think its unfortunate,b ut the reality of the situation is I don't think we'll ever find out who this guy was or waht his deal was. Either because of option 1 or 2 above.

There is definitly something there, just don't believe anyone will be able to find out. and those that do certainly won't post it on here. (Not that I doubt the research abilities of those here on ATS, just think that's the reality of this particular case)

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


My apologies. I didn't mean to sound quite that annoyed.


Of course, I agree that the information won't be presented to us all wrapped nicely and placed upon a silver platter.

The problem is that if people assume "we'll never know", they might just stop looking. And I think we all know the corruption possible without transparency. And sure, we may never find the truth, but does that mean we should not pursue the truth?

Far too frequently information such as this disappears from the public view. So many things swept under the rug. We are already kept in such a distracted state that we cannot pay attention to anything long enough to resolve the issue. Does anyone recall the "missing nuke"? Whatever came of that?

( www.abovetopsecret.com... )

Is this information to take the same route? I certainly hope that is not the case. I find many things about this case questionable and hope - not predict - that we will find answers. There is the possiblity that this could be very crucial information and we may not find out what's going on until it's too late to do anything about it, that's true.

However, hopefully that will not stop people from questioning. It's what we do ... isn't it? Besides, this particular situation is just too interesting to ignore, surely you agree with that?

There was a proposal presented back a few years ago, to keep tabs and follow up on these "buried" reports. There was interest for the first few weeks, then shortly after it just waned. People have good intentions, but seems prolonging such doesn't last with out some self discipline or a reward factor.

The few members who had attempted follow ups, couldn't find any material, and so the concept fell short.

Everyone, looks like they are already trying to remove all information on the Carnaby case.. fishy huh? Why do this if the guy was a poser? You would think the most news sources would gravitate to such controversies for a good "story"...

genedios.livejournal.com...

Thanks for the continued interest too all!

One shot to the back?

Is Houston PD all expert marksmen?

It took NYPD 50 shots on one guy.

HPD only takes one shot . . .

hrmmm

Nothing adds up with this case, and with out more info, all we can do is sift through what we have available. Which may be more than we realise. I was just thinking of doing a search fo archived and past years weblinks from the news and such.

If the powers that be are caught up being busy removing what has recently been published, there might still be time to scan the older material, if it exists.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Hey hey hey... no need to threaten people (which was the tone of that).

And come on, I've read stuff on this board long enough to know that, yes the "letter agencies" probably read and even post on here, but they have bigger fish to fry than posters on ATS. Besides there is enough High School bantering on here betweeen members that it seems they wouldn't need to go and threaten people or do a dis info campaign. We/you

That being said back to the actual topic....(sorry mods, but i needed to vent on that a little, from reading the weekly "ATS is run by the CIA threads, plus that seemed a tad threatening)

Back on track..
I'm not, nor do I recomend that anyone else, digs into this. it's not getting attention for a reason. Clearly he was either a) somebody worth covering stuff up about or b) a nut job/con artist that they don't want to get any more attention than it already has.

Interesting either way.

First of all I was not threatening anyone. I just stated the cold hard truth. If you cant handle the truth then don't read posts at ATS.

Second, what do you mean by " bigger fish to fry than posters on ATS" ?

Do you know the identities of all the people that post here at ATS?

Out of over 130,000 members here at ATS I think it would be safe to assume that there a few "big fish" posting here.

Thanks,
-Alien

Houston Chronicle Update from 5-23-08.

The lawyer representing Roland Carnaby's widow in her lawsuit against the city said the Houston Police Department violated its own policies when officers pursued the man who claimed to be a CIA agent on a crosstown chase that turned deadly.

The policy, which came into effect about two weeks before the April 29 high-speed chase, mandates that officers must "reasonably believe" that immediately apprehending the suspect outweighs any possible risk to the public.

One of the factors to be considered, the policy states, is whether police can gather sufficient information about the person to file an arrest warrant. If so, officers "will be expected to discontinue the pursuit," the policy states.

"They knew exactly who he was and where he lived," said attorney Randall Kallinen. "They knew his criminal record. He had never been arrested for a crime."

...

Although the CIA maintains that Carnaby had no connection with the organization, Kallinen said Carnaby's past assignments for them and law enforcement agencies such as the FBI will come to light during the upcoming lawsuit.

"We will prove that Mr. Carnaby worked for the security interests of the federal government and was paid for it," Kallinen said.

This looks more and more like he upset the officers and they were determined to deal with him at that instant.

The CIA/FBI connection seems to still be alive in all of this despite what the CIA states. It still might be a bit inflated on his part though but the FBI admits that he may have been an informant at minimum.



[edit on 5/23/2008 by roadgravel]

I suppose it might not be too far a stretch to think that he could have been working with the FBI investigating the HPD and was found out. This might put him in a bad light with some officers in the HPD and a bit a of marked man.