Reality: The Grand Illusion

Originally posted by Americanist
Now here's the problem with 99.9% of the people in this World...

Well, I'm glad that you've met all 100% of the people in this world and took notes on their personality, you must be prodigious of age, oh ol' fellow. Here, let me bruise your ego a bit (because you're really not all that hot or smart, to be blunt with you [that is relative to mon self, capiche mon ami? Just let know how many languages t'adore that in.]). You're still wearing armor from the dark ages as I understand, speed it up grandpa, this is the gun age, and change those depends! Something stinks around here.

Preconceived notions about what is.

The universe isn't expanding, genius. That's not a preconceived notion, it's a matter of impeccable logicalities. Your preconceived armor is a well known flaw relative to the weapons of the 21st century and beyond.

If you were to read further, you'd realize empty space is what we've been taught. There's nothing to drive motion behind protons and electrons other than phantom/massless virtual particles to counter the real particles.

No, no, Mr. voodoo. There aren't "phantom virtual particles". Everything in existence is as real and as tangible and controllable as your ordinary atom. They key is learning what energy sources tap into what energy sources for manipulation and alteration of those energy sources.

You use fancy words, like a sci-fi writer, but let's keep it scientific and logical.

I'm not sure why this would be turn-off for you. As I continue to explain... Empty space is a web of magnetic fields screw-drivered together (North and South) by a series of tori. The torus is a 3 dimensional black/white hole. Black holes aren't just a singularity... They're a cycle point.

Well, nothing is a true singularity except for eternity itself, and it's immeasurable. Empty space is a web of magnetic fileds only? What about photons? Among the countless other cosmic entities located in "empty space"

Why don't you try a 2nd and 3rd time through until you're able to wrap this around your mind... Trust me, it will start to sink in!

Why don't you figure out what you're talking about first, then send me a u2u and I'll read your final draft. I'm not a big fan of rough drafts with supernatural particles.

Explain how black/white holes form, why they form, what they cycle, why, when where, for how long, etc. You're jsut trying to sound good and attract attention. If you were really into it for the truth you'd go the whole 10 yards, you'd have it all put together by now. Maybe I'll share it with you some day.

Hope that horse of yours can outrun an m1 A. tank with AA.

BTW, your little God is a wothless piece of information when it comes to the universe. There are w/holes all over him/it. Please don't try to pass off "God" as the universe, because it's not. This isn't religion, it's science.

Do some research, open your mind, mold your ego, come back psychogenetically metamorphed and ambidextrously comprehensive, and then share what you're trying to explain.

[edit on 6-5-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

Originally posted by Americanist
Now here's the problem with 99.9% of the people in this World...

Well, I'm glad that you've met all 100% of the people in this world and took notes on their personality, you must be prodigious of age, oh ol' fellow.

Here, let me bruise your ego a bit. You're still wearing armor from the dark ages as I understand, speed it up grandpa, this is the gun age, and change those depends! Something stinks around here.

Preconceived notions about what is.

The universe isn't expanding, genius. That's not a preconceived notion, it's a matter of impeccable logicalities. Your preconceived armor is a well known flaw relative to the weapons of the 21st century and beyond.

If you were to read further, you'd realize empty space is what we've been taught. There's nothing to drive motion behind protons and electrons other than phantom/massless virtual particles to counter the real particles.

No, no, Mr. voodoo. There aren't "phantom virtual particles". Everything in existence is as real and as tangible and controllable as your ordinary atom. They key is learning what energy sources tap into what energy sources for manipulation and alteration of those energy sources.

You use fancy words, like a sci-fi writer, but let's keep it scientific and logical.

I'm not sure why this would be turn-off for you. As I continue to explain... Empty space is a web of magnetic fields screw-drivered together (North and South) by a series of tori. The torus is a 3 dimensional black/white hole. Black holes aren't just a singularity... They're a cycle point.

Well, nothing is a true singularity except for eternity itself, and it's immeasurable. Empty space is a web of magnetic fileds only? What about photons? Among the countless other cosmic entities located in "empty space"

Why don't you try a 2nd and 3rd time through until you're able to wrap this around your mind... Trust me, it will start to sink in!

Why don't you figure out what you're talking about first, then send me a u2u and I'll read your final draft. I'm not a big fan of rough drafts with supernatural particles.

Explain how black/white holes form, why they form, what they cycle, why, when where, for how long, etc. You're jsut trying to sound good and attract attention. If you were really into it for the truth you'd go the whole 10 yards, you'd have it all put together by now. Maybe I'll share it with you some day.

Hope that horse of yours can outrun an m1 A. tank with AA.

BTW, your little God is a wothless piece of information when it comes to the universe. There are w/holes all over him/it. Please don't try to pass off "God" as the universe, because it's not. This isn't religion, it's science.

Do some research, open your mind, mold your ego, come back psychogenetically metamorphed and ambidextrously comprehensive, and then share what you're trying to explain.

You're off on a tangent. First off, put in its proper context modern day science (ya know, what you hear from Stephen Hawking on down) describes the Universe with virtual particles, gravitons, dark matter, and dark energy. I was referring to this work as a "turn-off." It's obvious within the first two sentences you wrote, you never studied the theory I put forth. Secondly, I go the distance plus I didn't leave anything to chance. I haven't cited phantom particles or dark (this or that) to get the point across. I found a simple math formula to dictate scales, and I put forth the overall pattern in detail. Wiki Occam’s Razor while you're at it. Perhaps you'll be in a better mood to absorb things. You don't present a challenge to me, so there's no reason to come off abrasive. The ignorance you base your retort in isn't very entertaining either, so I'll leave it at that.

Enough!



Please quit attacking each other and discuss the subject at hand. Reality The Grand Illusion.

reply to post by TheBandit795


Attacking? I'd hardly call that an attack. Maybe a rub on the back (thanks by the way).

You're right, we're off topic, but that still doesn't change the fact that he doesn't understand what he's talking about, because I did study his theory and in response to it, he couldn't even comprehend the synopsis because he's so defensive. Almost a Hitler type fortitude.

*gives the pieces of your demolished horse a proper burial and smolds your metallic armor for tank ammo*

P.s. For future reference. Remember, respect is earned and gained, talking about bruising people's egos aint guh own get you far.

[edit on 6-5-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Almost a Hitler type fortitude.

I expect similar comments from someone with half a brain. It's understandable you don't grasp basic concepts of weather patterns, wave function, or our physical anatomy, but please... Save yourself the embarrassment of acting out your childhood. This ain't the 3rd grade, and it's certainly not some sort of lunch lady land. I invited you to use more of your head while rationalizing data, but yeah... You already maxed out at full throttle right out of junior high. Hey, at least you can fall back on those insults!

Bandit, a super mod, gave the warning. So take heed and all. Clearly there is personal attacks going on, and highly condescending attitudes.

I know LOVE is familiar with topics related to what this thread is about. I am thinking you, Amercanist, are read up on pertinent scientific theories that are related as well? Let's talk about that, in context to Bandits thread.

How does this magnetism address the quantum understanding (and ancient mystical understanding) that consciousness is intrinsic to creation? That consciousness IS creation by that very nature. Consciousness and Reality are intimately connected. Thats the thread.

[edit on 023131p://7u36 by Lucid Lunacy]

reply to post by Americanist

Originally posted by Americanist

I expect similar comments from someone with half a brain. It's understandable you don't grasp basic concepts of weather patterns, wave function, or our physical anatomy

What insults? I was complimenting you Honey dearest ♥

BTW, I never went to school.

How does consciosness relate to reality and creation? Don't ask Americanist because he's not conscious of his own theories

All kidding aside. Well Fe* is in our blood stream and we are animate "conscious beings", by itself Fe* is considered an inaminate object. So, what is it? (Physical Human antomy)

Our brain consists of electrical impulses, by theirself they are considered inaminate. In weather patterns with high barometric pressures wind speeds increase and thunderstorms are likely to be more prevalent and portentous in number, these types of weather patterns are often related to and acclimated with cumulonimbus clouds. These storms, independently are transeunt in nature. With them they portmanteu lightning, ie. electrical impulses and discharges. (weather patterns)

Our brain acting as a conduit for the experience of consciousness as a sentient being is considered animate. Whereas thunderstorms, relative to sentient beings are considered inanimate. Now, if we view the the entire sphere as a planetary organism or sentient being in and of itself then we have more relativity to deal with, such as other planets and the star which we call sun or sol. Beyond this, if we truly want to be fair and logically honest, we must admit that everything is interconnected and upon using further logic we will also conclude that the universe is an eternal expanse of space and time, not expanding, with multiple subsidiaries of (add prefix here) -centric (spherical) spatial and amorphous and inchoate individuality given to them by our use of linguistic terminology and perception as reflections of our finite nature through remembering our eternal knowledge stored in the energy that always has been and always will be (indestructible), such as; galaxies, stars, solar systems, planets, moons, elements, atoms, molecules, animate and inanimate strictures. (brains, half, whole anencephalus or other)

But this is all really a bunch of BS because everything is conscious relative to the energy of our infinite interconnected relative nature, everything moves in circles, and all of this is of the presence of absence, that which is perpetually static and sempiternally flawless. You see, iron is in our blood, iron is on the planet, water is in trees, water is in us... lighting is in the air, electricity is within us. Everything thing termed "inanimate" can be found to be directly connected to if not a part of all "animate beings".

Ah, le mise en scène est la beau de l'éternelle un! (*waves* Goodbye)

[edit on 7-5-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

The Eternal is our present moment... At least you're slowly catching on. Perhaps you should have gone to school, so you wouldn't be forced in a situation of copying and pasting someone else's thoughts/ writing. After a quick read though... I can only add you make a couple of my points for me (or at least the website you lifted the material from).

Lets speak in literal terms shall we. This Universe does move in circles... Particles themselves are driven into spiral patterns which gives our reality the same look and feel. A refresher is found within the last half a dozen or so posts of mine. You base the claim in a metaphysical sense... Fortunately, I offer you the vehicle to support this method of renewal.

Moving onto spheres... Wave function is often thought of in 2D. True to form, however, a wave is traveling in 3D creating corkscrews, and dare I say spherical structures. Blood travels throughout the body in this fashion, our cells gain integrity from manipulating water in this way, our DNA chain models waveform, and what we find elsewhere in the growth of nature is also indicative of spin.


I stated this earlier (you were busy drooling over nappy time)... Thoughts are electrical impulses the same as muscle movement. Electricity is alternate current of north and south pole. Our friend Lucid here made a reference to Zero Point Energy, which I kindly elaborated on. Even inside a vacuum, it is apparent magnetic fields still exist. You can't strip the Universe of these magnetic currents because it is the "web" holding everything together. Particles accumulate/ cycle near singularities on various scales.

Have you heard of red-shift? You do realize light is being driven away from us in every direction right? This is direct evidence of one of two possible outcomes. The first is something science seems to dictate... That the Universe is expanding. I say, it's becoming stable, it's expanded to a point near equilibrium, it's presence is known because of the underlying location of our solar system in Milky Way (we're governed by a larger scale which is currently drawing material outward more so than inward), and once we find ourselves beyond the threshold of unity (the plane in which a singularity resides at the center of our galaxy) it will appear as if the Universe is contracting (blue-shift). This will become further evidence mass (reality) accumulates towards the center of vortices creating this product we call life.

On a Universal Scale... The Big Bang was simply a cycle point. The Universe is part of the same pattern which allows it to flow with nature. An assembly/ reassembly from one center to the next. I'll go out on a limb here, and claim our Universe has 20 possible formations in an even larger vacuum state. Hence the reason we have room to expand.

Again, notice how I'm able to back this up with not only a pattern, but the mathematics involved. All you do is regurgitate some Sylvia Brown wannabe with pseudo this and pseudo that. My suggestion to you would have been lay off the Montel show long ago.

reply to post by Americanist


So you're saying at the most fundamental level, it's electricity? Light then is electricity? Consciousness is electricity? Perhaps you can sum it up and paraphrase for me, I am only half getting what you're suggesting about magnetism being the unifying force.

Again, notice how I'm able to back this up with not only a pattern, but the mathematics involved.

Hmm. I don't recall seeing mathematics in your post?... *which is fine with me, I like words*

reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal


The examples you gave reminded me of the Zen monk Thich Nhat Hanh and is concept of 'Interbeing'

He's great. I tried to find some of the quotes I was thinking of but couldn't find them

Hmm. I don't recall seeing mathematics in your post?... *which is fine with me, I like words*

You have to link to my page of course... The numbers 1-9. It doesn't get any easier than that!






Universal Structure: System of Truth





Electricity is the result of centripetal and centrifugal forces of the two individual currents (+ and -).

reply to post by Americanist


I see you're still condescending and judging in abdication. And if you contained the slightest level of intellect you'd know that all we are is a bunch of copy and paste jobs, although I didn't directly copy and paste from any website, book, etc. Erudition is transcendent.

It's the numbers 0-9 that are important. Anyhow, when the day comes that you can cease demeaning people, you might just make some worthwhile friends that have some valuable information to share with you ;-) Until then, enjoy anti-everyone. *bows down* (I figured that's what you desired)

P.s. I did go to school, it's called sarcasm. I practice it on people that can't carry civil discussions.

And negative. I didn't see any pertinent mathematics involved, nor any well thought out pattern structures that aren't already known. I saw a loosely strung together knowledge of the universe, not to mention your mindset is still stuck in creationism mode believing in the big bang. When your logic comes to and you realize that the big bang is an impossibility, mathematically, logically and physically, gracefully send me a u2u.

I'm already there; here let me sum it up for you. This is existence: An eternal interconnected trichotomous universe. Remember that space and time are interrelated, energy is eternal and energy is space/time, thus the attributes in this case (one among many that I'd be glad to share with you when you decide to step off of your pedestal) of energy render space and time an eternal expanse. The eternity of energy does not only define its time, but also its space.

Toodles. Back to the drawing board, eh?

Time to placate the mental premises of all intruding fallacy, plant a seed of truth and observe the sagacity of xylem subsidiaries strut heavenly.

For the record : I detest metaphysics.

& since you introduced the scene of copyright infringement; I wonder just where you might have gotten the idea of the big bang at?

[edit on 7-5-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

You mention energy over and over again, and yet you have no knowledge of what it derives from. Energy is a substance of some type of motion, so there must be a vehicle to 'roll' out this force for lack of a better term. You haphazardly throw terminology at me as both plagiarism and buzzwords. I'm not buying it, so ultimately you're wasting time. Try to learn at least a little of what I put forth. You were right about one thing... I didn't come up with the big bang. I didn't come up with super string theory, plasma cosmology, EU, or the torus for that matter. The difference between me and the rest of the field is... I have something to unify and synchronize all these possibilities. Allow me to break it down for you:


Big Bang - A singularity as a three dimensional structure (torus) in a series of 20.

Super String - 4 types of spin plus nearing 20 dimensions to achieve.

Plasma Cosmology - A play on the electric universe with energy riding out the reactions of heavenly bodies.

EU - The single most defined theory for explaining our Universe minus how energy is created.


And how is energy created? I've told you several times now... This is the closest anyone has come to raveling us into One while combining philosophy, science, geometry, and mathematics. And you haven't seen me copy and paste anything, as your claim suggests the majority will do. I don't have to edit these posts either. If I piss people off... Fine. At least people react to anger when it comes to problem solving. It's a motivational tool to combat indifference. I rest my case.

Originally posted by Americanist
You mention energy over and over again, and yet you have no knowledge of what it derives from.

It derives from nothing since the universe is perpetually in motion everything is energy and always will be. Things are only considered stationary relative to themselves, but all things are truly always in motion.

Energy is a substance of some type of motion, so there must be a vehicle to 'roll' out this force for lack of a better term.

Not necessarily. See, the universe is an eternal perpetual motion machine, it moves itself without extranious influence.

You haphazardly throw terminology at me as both plagiarism and buzzwords.

Well, when you can find the sources that I am plagiarizing from, please do let me know, until then, just like the rest of your theories, you're only speculating on something you know nothing about.

I'm not buying it, so ultimately you're wasting time. Try to learn at least a little of what I put forth.

As I said before, it's you that needs to learn what you put forth, not I. Not only your theories but your personality.

You were right about one thing... I didn't come up with the big bang. I didn't come up with super string theory, plasma cosmology, EU, or the torus for that matter.

So you're plagiarizing. You've taken concepts that you didn't conceive and ultimately can not prove and parading them around as if they are your own as if you have proven something. When you can prove without a doubt that the big bang happened, then I'll look into your theories. Until then, you're just hanging onto other's kites and flailing your arms around in the air.

The difference between me and the rest of the field is...

Absolutely nothing. As shown above.

I have something to unify and synchronize all these possibilities. Allow me to break it down for you:

No, you really don't. You are it, but you don't realize what it is.

Big Bang - A singularity as a three dimensional structure (torus) in a series of 20.

You're just explaining the universe as described in my previous post. An eternally interconnected trichotomous singularity. This singularity is an eternal one, expanding both space and time. It is not a singularity with nothing outside of it. This eternal (energy spanning both space and time) trichotomous (3 dimensional) singularity (only enough space for one eternity! Thus a singularity) is the essence of energy, space and time.

Super String - 4 types of spin plus nearing 20 dimensions to achieve.

Sounds wonderful. Unfortunately there are only 3 dimensions, always.

Plasma Cosmology - A play on the electric universe with energy riding out the reactions of heavenly bodies.

Now this is true. Plasma cosmology is pretty much there, but it can not involve the big bang, nor multiple dimensions as presented by theologian scientists (which makes them not scientists at all).

EU - The single most defined theory for explaining our Universe minus how energy is created.

Well, the universe IS very electric. What doesn't have electrons? What doesn't have a current? What doesn't have a vibration? Everything does.

And how is energy created? I've told you several times now... This is the closest anyone has come to raveling us into One while combining philosophy, science, geometry, and mathematics.

Energy is neither created nor destroyed. It transmutates from one state to another, eternally. This is where you make your flaw. You fail to acknowledge the eternal attributes of energy, a basic concept known in beginners physics.

And you haven't seen me copy and paste anything, as your claim suggests the majority will do.

I've never made a claim suggesting the majority will copy and paste directly, but you should know that science is nothing but a copy and paste job by Humans. The unvierse's copyrights are being infringed upon. No one is bringing anything original to the table, we are only observing and recording what always has been. The material, elements, forces and essences of existence around you is the universe's book, we are reading it, labeling it and then copying it and pasting it.

I don't have to edit these posts either. If I piss people off... Fine. At least people react to anger when it comes to problem solving. It's a motivational tool to combat indifference.

You know what, you are who you are, and if you piss people off then oh well. It's fine by me. Well, my personal experience is that patience, kindness and casual mutual interlocution and working towards a common goal of truth is the best way to solve indifference. I do also understand and relate to anger being used as a tool of progression, though carefully. There are morals that I stand by.

I rest my case.

Mine never tires.



[edit on 7-5-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

It derives from nothing since the universe is perpetually in motion everything is energy and always will be. Things are only considered stationary relative to themselves, but all things are truly always in motion.

I can't fault you sharing in your insight; however, this book of knowledge you’re reading from seems to indicate our Universe hinges on nothing. It then contradicts itself in the following sentence with perpetual motion. Not that I was trying to win you over or anything, but it's damn near impossible to debate an inherent contradiction while you further your position in an endless loop. You remind me of a coke fiend who's had a few beers to counter-balance the high. I literally sat on the couch once, and let this ass hat tell me the same story repeated over and over again. To him… It was always something new. Then I turned in for the night the same as I'm going to do with you now.

I'll leave behind this. It’s straight from my theory, since you began regurgitating some of it towards the end:

Traditionally speaking time/ motion does not exist. It's an assembly/reassembly from one center to the next. We are static in particle form while the entire Universe is kinetic in nature. Information/consciousness grants us the control to manifest (assemble/reassemble) reality.

Originally posted by Americanist
I can't fault you for sharing in your insight; however, this book of knowledge you’re reading from seems to indicate our Universe hinges on nothing.

That's correct. The essence of energy has no derivative; no beginning and no end. As it was said, maybe someday you'll come around to it. Slowly you realize how similar it is to your own idea, yet if you continue to converse (I sense a bit of fear in you, always trying to get away from our discussion and continuously degrade me and others... which you receive back in logical reciprocation, not character degradation through a mode of assumptions) you'll understand the flaws in the theories that you have subscribed to.

For the record: I don't do coke. I am high off of life and astonishingly passionate about my existence and its impervious logic dichotomously scientifically and syntactically.

I sense a bit of fear in you, always trying to get away from our discussion and continuously degrade me and others

I'm not afraid of dying. I am afraid of your rhetoric? Ok uhm, explain the fact I can always get the best of you. Guess I got over the trash talking fear pretty fast!

The only thing I steer clear of is the bass-ackward logic you bring to the table. Now do us both a favor and rewind a bit. Take particular notice of your initial response to me. Ya know, as you jumped into the conversation.

Here's you...


Here's me...


Any questions?

Interesting thought, OP, but I personally never subscribed to the "our reality is created by our consciousness" idea. However, I DO think it is possible that what we perceive as reality is just the "shadow" cast by a much more complex reality.

Just like a 3-dimensional object casts a flat 2-dimensional shadow on the ground, our "3-D" reality (or possibly 4-D, if you count 'time') that we perceive is simply the "shadow" of a multi-dimensional reality that we cannot see.

Of course I'm not talking about a real shadow, but I think that metaphor is about the best way to describe what our reality is in relation to the "actual" reality.

To a multi-dimensional observer (one who can see the "real" complex universe), this computer I'm typing on is just a 3D shadow cast by the real multi-dimensional universe. And even what we perceive as the passage of time (our 4th Dimension) is actually not really part of the real multi-dimensional universe and only exists as a "shadow".

Do I actually believe this?? I don't know -- but it's fun to try to wrap my brain around concepts such as this.

[edit on 5/8/2008 by Soylent Green Is People]

Originally posted by Americanist
I'm not afraid of dying.

But you're afraid of living.

Ok uhm, explain the fact I can always get the best of you. Guess I got over the trash talking fear pretty fast!

Because the best of me is all that is ever available.

The only thing I steer clear of is the bass-ackward logic you bring to the table. Now do us both a favor and rewind a bit. Take particular notice of your initial response to me. Ya know, as you jumped into the conversation.

Okay, I took notice of it.

Here's you...

Put down the mirror, you're projecting. See, science is about observation and inquisition, and facts gathered from those questions. If you wanted to know whether I was mad or not, you should have probably asked if you consider yourself a scientist. Us scientists don't go around assuming. We validate our data through substantial evidence.

Here's me...

Oh, I see now. This is how you want it to be. I suppose I shall. *bows down to the master*

Any questions?

No, not anymore until you can actually have information exchanges without thinking that you have to destroy everyone.

[edit on 8-5-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
Interesting thought, OP, but I personally never subscribed to the "our reality is created by our consciousness" idea. However, I DO think it is possible that what we perceive as reality is just the "shadow" cast by a much more complex reality.

"Reality" is nothing but consciousness. I'm talking specifically about your reality. It is your consciousness. Similarly for all other living beings; for how else could it be, and what else is there to ever perceive and judge reality, but living beings?

I would find it stupid to think that something so bizarrely complicated, infinitely rich, etc., etc., with conscious life already in it, would just be floating around in this container called "space" with neither any eyes upon it or within it, with nothing whatsoever to justify its existence in the first place. All science is looking for, is this justification for existence. This doesn't come in a formula, but a realization.

I'll tell you why you think as you do: you do not realize what you are, and you project your ignorance of this onto the way you see the entire universe. Thus everything becomes "mechanical," which an abstract idea that does not really exist. Everything "mechanical" really has conscious intelligence behind it, directing it, on some level.

But the universe will always comprehend us (including you) in ways that we will never comprehend it.

Think of the fish you look down upon, swimming in the pond. You comprehend its existence in ways it will never even comprehend itself.

Think of the tree: you comprehend it in ways it could never possibly comprehend itself, for it doesn't even have eyes.

The universe comprehends you in the same way that a puppeteer comprehends his own hand behind the fabric that makes his puppet, and it ultimately is a living intelligence, not a dead stupidity.