Freemasonry's Connection To The Homosexual Movement

Originally posted by JoshNorton
If you're saying 32° Masons can't quote Pike because they're not 33°, then you automatically have to extend that to prohibiting non-Masons from quoting Pike on the same grounds.

Furthermore, Pike was a 32° when he revised the ritual and began working on the lectures, which were later published as "Morals and Dogma", so a good bulk of that book can be said to have been written by a 32°.

And I'm fine with that. Pike's not that special. He wrote some stuff ~150 years ago that's not that relevant to Masonry today.

I must disagree with this. Pike is profoundly relevant in the Scottish Rite, Southern Jurisdiction of the USA. He is also very relevant in the Royal Order of Scotland, Provincial Grand Lodge USA, and Masonic Rosicrician Society of the United States.

Originally posted by OSSkyWatcher
i'm sorry but could all of the 33 degree masons here on ATS please identify yourselves before you talk about masonry, because the OP posted information from a 33rd degree mason, and everything i have read says that 32 and 33 aren't the same thing in masonry, so maybe you learn a few things once you hit 33

I find it quite odd that you would request proof of the 33 degree from the Masons on the board, yet have accepted the OP statments that he/she have obtain information from a 33rd without question. Where is the proof that the OP has really talked with a 33rd? I am always amazed how thoses who are not masons can think that they know more about freemasonry than those who have spent their life as a mason. Oh how could a mason know what is going on, they not high enough to know, yet a non-mason knows all there is to know, because they heard it from a quy that heard it from a guy, who knows this guy who once knew a guy who claim to be a past mason and is now writting a book about.

[edit on 29-4-2008 by lost in the midwest]

we all know that J.W.Bush is a skull and bones but
was his father a freemason or not..?

Jeff Gannon
"Jeff Gannon's" secret life

reply to post by OSSkyWatcher


well if you really want proof here i took a picture of my cap.


My Black Cap


nonethe less i shouldnt have to prove anything to you.

Originally posted by Road Warrior 31
we all know that J.W.Bush is a skull and bones but
was his father a freemason or not..?

No, he is not a Mason. The last US President who was a Mason was Brother Gerald R. Ford, a member of Malta Lodge in Michigan.

Originally posted by wayno
with due respect, I must correct (to no avail, I know already) all of you who state that it is a "fact" that homosexuality is a "sin".
"Sin" is a religious term. It therefore belongs in the realm of opinion, dogma, belief; etc. but not fact.
One religion may or may not concur with another's notion of sin or right and wrong. People who aren't religious surely are not beholden to the opinions of those who are.
Your arguments about sin are erroneous, meaningless, and pointless. You are free to hold your views, but they bear no weight outside your circle of "believers", and certainly are anything but facts.
now, back to the mudslinging and paranoia - oh yah, the Masons ...

so then, is it a "fact" that homosexuality is something someone is "born" with? Is that your contention? Because you will need real "facts" to back that up. Good luck in finding that from "credible" science - that is, the ones without an 'agenda'.


[edit on 29-4-2008 by TrailGator]

reply to post by TrailGator

so then, is it a "fact" that homosexuality is something someone is "born" with? Is that your contention? Because you will need real "facts" to back that up. Good luck in finding that from "credible" science - that is, the ones without an 'agenda'.

hey trailgator, unlike the notion of sin, which is an abstract idea related to religious teachings, homosexual behaviour is something that can be observed or that can be experienced in the here and now. There is a lot than can be said about it therefore from that perspective, whether or not we have all the science reports in on the whys and wherefores.
See my post on the first page of this thread for the main point I was making. It is more "normal" than you think, and just a part of being human. Thats why it exists inside the Masons, and outside the Masons, and in every country and in every time. Its not a movement or an agenda. Its just a part of life. How we all deal with it is another matter.

In my opinion, the problem with homosexuality is regeneration.

If you are a man, and are a homosexual, you have no chance
of continuing your bloodline.

Once you are dead, if you have no children, you cease to exist, even by bloodline.

And this, I believe, is the reason for the 'push' of accepting homosexuality.

Population control.

Originally posted by cutbothways
In my opinion, the problem with homosexuality is regeneration.

If you are a man, and are a homosexual, you have no chance
of continuing your bloodline.

Once you are dead, if you have no children, you cease to exist, even by bloodline.

And this, I believe, is the reason for the 'push' of accepting homosexuality.

Population control.

Of course, how then do you explain observed homosexual behaviour in animals? Sort of deep-sixes the human societal pressure argument.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
I must disagree with this. Pike is profoundly relevant in the Scottish Rite, Southern Jurisdiction of the USA.

I was under the impression that all of the degrees had been rewritten within the last 10 or 20 years or so by the SR education committee... and it's probably been about that long since they stopped giving out Morals & Dogma and substituted it with A Bridge to Light? Not to discount the work he did, but even the white caps that teach the classes admit there's more accessible and understandable material now days.

The shills of high-degree freemasons (porch-masons too) still can not debunk the truth, which valid & valuable sources have shared & continue to share with people, who welcome the truth & gladly share it with others.

Keep on exposing your enemies, patriots. Our enemies might be vicious, but they're not convincing anyone of us that high-degree freemasons are not working against righteous people, who just want peace & order (rather than child-rape, homosexual-orgies, and satanic-rituals).

Pour the truth over them. Don't even hesitate to add more facts about the porch-masons' masters: false-priests & "grand-wizards".

Shilling for freemasons isn't going to debunk the fact that many high-degree freemasons are involved with satanic ritual-abuse. There are plenty of experts & ex-freemasons, who expose the truth about their former-masters: wicked "grand wizards" & false-priests.

The Light Behind Masonry - Bill Schnoebelen

Bill Schnoebelen exposes the truth behind the secret club known as Freemasonry. A large percentage of Masons are kept in the dark on purpose so the real agenda can be carried out. Bill exposes the intentions behind the images put forth by the Masons and Shriners.

Google Video Link

History of Freemasonry

Google Video Link

Originally posted by JoshNorton

I was under the impression that all of the degrees had been rewritten within the last 10 or 20 years or so by the SR education committee

They have actually been revised instead of rewritten. The new ritual, which is not yet universally in use, is called the "Revised Standard Pike Ritual". The new revised ritual does not eliminate the core principles that Pike put into them. It aims at eliminating repetition by shortening the opening and closing of each degree, along with other changes to try to make the stage work flow more smoothly. But it is still a Pike ritual.

and it's probably been about that long since they stopped giving out Morals & Dogma and substituted it with A Bridge to Light?

A Bridge To Light itself says in the preface that it is meant to be an introduction to Morals and Dogma, and the book contains hundreds of quotes from M&D. Brother Hutchens fully intended that Scottish Rite students study his book along with M&D, and not replace it.

Not to discount the work he did, but even the white caps that teach the classes admit there's more accessible and understandable material now days.

Obviously, the majority of our members are not students of philosophy. You hear a lot of the old timers talk about how difficult Pike is, but to me, this reflects at least some type on intellectual laziness. For anyone who's had to study Kant, for example, Pike is a pretty easy read.

But regardless, very few things worthwhile come easy. Those not already familair with philosophy, comparative religion, and mysticism may not easily understand Pike all the time. But with a little work, they can learn it.

Whenever I see 'homosexual movement' anywhere I can be sure that I am reading something written by someone who has a huge block of cement in his head.

There is this idea that gay people are so incredibly organized that they have infiltrated government, Hollywood, embassies, schools, the military - you name it. While it's kind of nice to think that gay and lesbian people could be so very powerful, this is nothing more than homophobic, paranoid drivel.

Some people are gay. Some people are not. Get over it.

reply to post by cutbothways


Let's have some proof to go along with your libelous slander. When one make outrageous claims one should have outrageous proof to go along with it.

Until such proof is forthcoming I, for one, would wish that most of you would cease the slander and outright lies. It's quite obvious, even to this non Mason, that ya'll have no clue what you are gibbering on about...no clue whatsoever.

Pike founded the KKK and the history of the Masons is definitely tied to the Vatican/Jesuit as is most of the conspiracy material. I believe maxwells site as well as VaticanAssassins exposes some of that. It is well established that there is a pro-dumbing down agenda via "trusts/endowments for the arts" and the general manipulation of the education system. It is not hard to consider the possibility of high levels in organizations like the Masons have been slowly taken over and thereby managing high level access (membership to 33rd degree +) and using the connections directly and indirectly for various agendas. This is certainly the nature of the Jesuits, for example who aren't even clued into what the organization is really about until they've been members for over 20 years. Likely the majority of Masons disqualify themselves at some point for access to the darker side of the organization. There are plenty of stories of individuals challenging the homosexual promotion in education and loosing their jobs just as challenging Darwinism has been demonstrated by the "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" movie out now. So far as labels go "Homophobic" is a good think just as "freight train or Mac Truck aphobic" is a good thing and their are healthy reasons to be that way. But, the goal is not dumb down, brainwash acceptance but the much harder task of tolerance for the existence of individuals and their right to exist and go through what they need to. Yet, tolerance is clearly not the goal of people promoting "Homophobic" intimidation tactics.

I would invite those to read the problem lodge thread.
But first, type into google "gay masonic lodge". you will find two here in the US and at the same place.
Its so stupid of the usual Mason posters to say this or that doesnt happen.
Yes, in one area the gay agenda is being pushed, with openly gay lodges.
In fact my friend and I were kicked out for a time for questioning the wisdom of bringing in a cross dresser.
Its not that I have some major problem with these things, but, we are in a small conservative town and that is a major problem, it just is. Other members do have a major problem with sexual matters such as this.
I challenge all Masons here to disclose if they have gay, cross dressers, street queens and what ever in their lodge. And if you dont, why not!
I double dog dare you!

Don Dyar


[edit on 18-5-2008 by HDFACTORYCERTIF]

Who cares? I mean, really?

How uptight and fundamentalist does one have to be these days to care whether someone is gay or not, or even regard it as something remarkable?

It seems kinda puerile to be as fascinated with the sex lives of others as ChadAndrewsATS obviously is...

But then, Chad is a Bill Schnoebelen fan, so I wouldn't be surprised if he talks to fairies in his garden.



Weak thread, dude. Weak and really embarrassing for you.

...and, of course, the first thing that pops up in Bill's video is "send money!"

What a clown.

Originally posted by HDFACTORYCERTIF
Its so stupid of the usual Mason posters to say this or that doesnt happen.

And just where did we say that?
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I wrote:
It's a fact that there are some gay Masons. It's a fact that some of these gay Masons might want to hang out with, or otherwise communicate with other gay Masons. It's a fact that some gays are afraid they might not be allowed to become Masons because they are gay. It's a fact that tolerance towards gays in the lodge has been very slow in coming around, as the acceptance of blacks and other racial or religious groups. Sad fact: there's intolerence everywhere, if you look for it. Hopefully things are getting better.

I challenge all Masons here to disclose if they have gay, cross dressers, street queens and what ever in their lodge. And if you dont, why not!
I double dog dare you!

Don, I've mentioned before, on a few occasions, that there are gays in my lodge. Blacks too. And Jews, and Muslims; we even let a few Scotsmen in. I fail to see a problem with that. But it doesn't go very far to show Masonry as a whole pushing a gay agenda. It only shows that Masons believe in equality of men, regardless of their backgrounds, religion, social status, or sexual orientation because Masonry itself is about none of those things.

Josh, I do think that is good and the way it should be.
In a small conservative town where I am. And, where some but not all members still use the N word when referring to blacks and for sure the Q word in regards to other sexual practice, these are real problems.
In the case of the local cross dresser, he was not low key about it at all.
As it is known, we have a really bad image problem that was completely out of control before RacerX and I entered the lodge.
This situation posed too great a risk in our lodge at this time. I was looking for some possible agreement that just maybe the guy could not dress as a woman and hang out downtown.
I brought this up to the master of the lodge a full two weeks before the vote, and said we need to discuss this. Instead, no discussion, we were kicked out on false charges and they voted him in.
From pressure of others, the then Grand Master ordered the Master of the lodge to reinstate us, and we were then told to object to the candidate to the Master of the lodge, as we were present at the meeting but were unable to attend the vote, because the officers of the lodge horribly and with cheers and high fives kicked us out.
The candidate could have been "in" if the Master of lodge would have discussed it and some agreement reached.
One point I want to make is, gay or whatever membership can work out in a city with a population base that can support it. The small town I am in, with drastic reduction in members, and older members, is a disaster that cant be ignored.

Don Dyar