US puts UK Typhoon jet contract with Saudi Arabia at risk

LONDON (Thomson Financial) - A 20 billion pound British government contract to supply Saudi Arabia with typhoon fighter jets could be at risk because of an US administration debate over whether to approve the deal, The Financial Times reported on its website.

The state department must approve the transfer of US technology on the fighter before Britain can export 72 Eurofighter Typhoons to Saudi Arabia as part of the Al-Salam deal, the FT said.
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Just what is in the Typhoon thats from the US. ( US technology )
This will be interesting.

[edit on 22-4-2008 by Jezza]

Originally posted by Jezza
Just what is in the Typhoon thats from the US. ( US technology )

I think it is this

en.wikipedia.org...

at a measley $386,000 per unit.

No the Saudi's already operate the Aim-120 Maybe its a newer variant or something. but they could always get the earlier model.

They ought to ship without the parts in case the US denies permission.

If the US does deny permission, it will be a grave example of a loss of sovereignty for the UK... like we need more erosion of our independence!

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
They ought to ship without the parts in case the US denies permission.

That won't work if the part is a key avionic or engine part etc.

Also, while the deal went through the UK, the prodction of the Typhoon is a consortium of EU states is it not? THis IMHO would be less to do with UK Soverignty and more with over arching EU issues.

reply to post by FredT


I'm no expert (very, very far from it, just a few friends in the RAF) and obviously out of date too - could it be a US patent that was 'gifted' to Germany way back when? Funny it hasn't come up before, doesn't everyone have these now?

Even so, shouldn't the real issue be why are we even entertaining selling the Saudi's anything of this nature? Oh yes that's right oil. With cash crashing are we back to the barter system? Buying favours from one of the most oppressive regimes on the planet, god bless Britain. And, why would the US object, aren't they toadying to the Saudi's too? Do they just want credit?

The whole thing is farcical anyway.
The Saudis don't NEED any of this hardware. They know that if threatened they will be saved by the likes of the US and UK due to the oil supply.
The real reason behind the huge arms deals is the revenue to arms companies, which the Saudis invest heavily in, the BIG kickbacks to many high profile "princes" and keeping the revenue revolving round and around. There is of course all the behind the scenes stuff like oil payments, which are traded off the books and thus avoid taxation by the government.

Nice work if you can get it....hahaha!

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


Thats a point I have made several times. The House of Saud is ripe for a fall and an Iranian Style revolution. We have made our bed with the Saudi Royal family and have no other choice.

As far as advanced weapons systems go, many oil rich states are begging to plan for a post "oil" economy. So after all the bribes and graft are taken care of, at the end of the day they want those industrial offsets to start developing an economy that is not 90% dependant of oil.

Its NOT an easy task. This is in some ways the same conditions that deposed the Shah. The Shah was trying a similar approach before he was deposed.

I'm sure approval will be given, after all, the US is in bed with SA more than the UK is.

If they don't, then perhaps we can put a sting in the tail and kick up a stink about parts in the F-35 and F-22 that are made by BAe Systems.....

reply to post by FredT


Not only that, but there are strong reasons to believe that unlike Iran, Saudi Arabia already has some nukes and the means to deliver them. It's become apparent (thanks largely to Muhammad Khilewi) that they largely funded Pakistan's nuke program - I wonder what they got for their money?

Some nuke-tipped Ghauri missiles in silos near Al-Sulaiyil perhaps?

[edit on 4/22/08 by xmotex]

Originally posted by FredT
reply to post by KilgoreTrout

 

Thats a point I have made several times. The House of Saud is ripe for a fall and an Iranian Style revolution. We have made our bed with the Saudi Royal family and have no other choice.

Now bear with me because I don't really know what I am talking about here...but I was just showing this thread to my husband and he said that it could be the IFF (Identification Friend or Foe ????) system that the US are concerned about sharing.

The implication being that the US is deciding whether the Saudi's may be a future foe and they don't want the system to ignore them.

Hope that makes some sense.

What he also said, is that the US may be a little concerned that the Saudi's will then sell the technology on (as the Israeli's did under similar circumstances) to the Chinese (and again the US may have not yet decided whether they'll be a future foe).

Does this story even have any credibility? I have (quickly) searched the web and can find no other source (except a verbatim repeat of the same story which is therefore not another source).

Not only is there no direct US involvelment in the Typhoon except for the AMRAAM, the US is currently expected to supply Saudi with a follow on batch of F-15's, though no deal has been signed. What could possibly be in the (100% European and therefore out of their jurisdiction) Typhoon that America would be so touchy about, while supplying F-15's is fine and dandy and marketing the F-35 to them 'in due course' is a certainty? Seems like bollocks to me.

reply to post by waynos


No I have found but a few articles. The only issue I can find would be related to missiles, but the Saudi's already have the AIM-120. Are there any US made parts on the airframe beyond weapons? Computers?

Are the Saudi Typhoons equipped with AESA?

[edit on 4/22/08 by FredT]

No, they are tranche 2 standard with CAPTOR, even then the CAESAR, when it is offered, is entirely European so that cannot be the reason either. Thats the thing Fred, I was wondering what subsystems might be sourced from the US, but there is nothing as far as I can tell because, just as the airframe and engine work was divided between the partner nations, so was all the on board systems. That is why I disbelieve the story, or at least I think its wide of the mark. There IS a possibility of the order collapsing (albeit a remote one, but this is due to the investigation issues into Al Yammamah rather than any sensitive tech issue

Also, more reports are now emerging, including Reuters, so kudos to the OP for being so quick

However, there is no mention of what that technology might actually be so I am at a complete loss as to what say the US can possibly have on the sale of a plane they have nothing to do with

[edit on 22-4-2008 by waynos]

I've yet to identify the specific "transfer of technology" that the US is citing, but it stems from a Justice Department probe into alleged corruption in the the Al-Yamamah deal. Basically, the Justice Department is concerned the deal for the Eurofighters might compromise the investigation into Al-Yamamah.

Originally posted by FredT

No I have found but a few articles. The only issue I can find would be related to missiles, but the Saudi's already have the AIM-120. Are there any US made parts on the airframe beyond weapons? Computers?

Are the Saudi Typhoons equipped with AESA?
[edit on 4/22/08 by FredT]

My guess is some form of data bus or processor in the flight systems.

Just a hunch.

Turns out it is the Raytheon weapon system the UK chose to use ahead of the implementation of the Meteor weapon system. Until the meteor is in service, the UK Typhoons will be using the Raytheon system.

As we are transferring Typhoons that were originally designated for the RAF, they contain the Raytheon weapons system.

There you go folks...

Doesn't 'Raytheon weapon system' mean the AMRAAM missile? As in the missile already carried by F-15's of the RSAF supplied directly from Boeing without any problem during the 1990's? Smells hokey to me (the excuse, not your post ), unless there's more to it.

Given the way the Saudis are known to always do business that begs the question how that F-15 deal was brokered as well and if it was so different from Al Yammamah? Will that be looked at too? Why should the US be investigating this anyway? Even though, yes, the way we handled it ourselves stinks like a dead hedgehog, what is America's jurisdiction? Maybe that should be for another thread.

[edit on 23-4-2008 by waynos]

I think it concerns software....when Austria bought Eurofighters, we also had to wait for US permission in order to operate them..and that was due to some software issues, but I don't know which part of the overall system the software concernes.

Waynos, (and others)

The answer is right under your nose. This has nothing to do with technology transfer and everything to do with market share. This is little more than looking for any old excuse to throw a spanner in the works of the opposition, kind of like being pulled over by the coppers and told "you have a broken tail light" (when you dont) so they have a reason to search you. The US is simply looking for any old reason to consolidate it's position in the ME and in particular with the Saudis, AND open up potential markets for the F-35 at the expense of any European offerings. I suspect the Yanks are getting a little jittery about some recent sales going to Typhoon and Gripen and the public relations cloud that keeps hanging over the Lightening II.

LEE.