Guys we may have a problem in the D.C. area

Considering the fact that Canada's proven oil reserves are second only to Saudi Arabia, why are we paying so @#$% much for gas here in Canada? Do we need to become members of OPEC?

Canada's reserves are different than the middle-east. The oil in Alberta, for example is mixed with sand. In order to extract this precious commodity the oil companies are basically raping Alberta's environment, and using a stupid amount of energy and fuel to get it out. (I'm an American but I live in Canada.) I was watching a CBC documentary on it and I think they said that it would take more oil than the world currently has to get it all out. Sure sounds like they're going to try though. Meanwhile it's become impossible for normal, middle-class Canadians to live in Alberta. A friend of mine is an electrical engineer and his wife is a nurse and they are moving back to Manitoba because they can no longer afford to live in Alberta (he gets paid something like 30 bucks an hour.)

On the flip-side of the coin, Americans get fuel cheaper than almost anyone else in Western-society and yet they're the ones complaining the loudest about how expensive it is. I've got news for you guys: it doesn't say anything in the constitution about cheap fuel. This is OUR fault. We've sat idly by scratching our behinds and drinking beer while the same greedy, wealthy, group of people that have been trying to enslave us since the beginning of time made us totally dependent on a substance they can shut-off anytime they want. Get ready...this is only the beginning.

reply to post by alphabetaone

ENGINEERING A GAS STATION
Bringing Automation Engineering Into the Classroom
Ken Ball; Past President, ISA Pittsburgh Section

The first thing that happens is that one or possibly two storage tank pumps are energized and one or two solenoid valves open to direct fuel to your unit. If you selected the lowest (regular) octane grade, or the highest (premium) octane grade; then only the pump in that storage tank would turn on and maintain a delivery pressure to your nozzle. (You may be interested to know that only two grades are delivered to and stored at the newer stations—the lowest and highest octane grades)...

Well, you might ask “what happens if I select the super grade or some other grade between the highest and lowest octane”? The simple answer is that the required mix is blended at the dispersion unit; but the blending is not so simple. First, pumps supplying both the highest and lowest grades are energized pressurizing both flow lines to your unit. When the nozzle is activated, flows from both tanks go through their respective flow controllers which basically are combined flow meter and flow restriction units.
The microprocessor now monitors counts from both flow controllers and adds the counts for the customer panel display. The microprocessor also monitors the ratio of the flows and compares this with stored information as to the proper ratio to produce the blend. A flow restriction signal (proportional to the deviation of the rate from that prescribed) is sent to either controller which may be running high and a fast acting solenoid restricts the flow rate. The corrective action signals are adjusted about every half-second. This results in a blend within a tenth or two (on the high side) of the selected octane number.

Link

You may be right about high octane gas burning cleaner. I do know it's used in high temperature combustion engines because it improves performance. If your car calls for 87, use 87. My 92 Accord used 85 and now 87 and I drive it 120 miles every day with 311,000 miles.

If the gas station your going to is really old it may have a seperate tank for 89, and their may be distributors who still deliver it. I've asked all the modern stations here and they use the system above. Peace.

Ok.
I am sitting here REALLY trying not to get this way, but, I can't help myself....to all of you Europeans and in particular those you from the UK....comparing gas prices to the U.S. isn't at alll an accurate statement when saying gas is "more" expensive. I have lived in the UK, Ireland and Europe......but have spent most of my time in the States. You Europeans have NO concept of the sheer size and distances involved in driving in the U.S., plus public transportation isn't practical in 70% of the U.S. with low population densities (by the way there is more to the U.S. than NY and LA).
I wish I lived in a country one quarter the size of my state, then I wouldn't mind paying 10 Br. pounds a gallon!

reply to post by tsloan


Being i used to drive a tanker im guessing they dont have a blender are the 89 tank mite have a leak if you wanna make 89 its easy put in 5 gallons of 93 then the rest in 87 you blended it then!
all mid grades are blended with 87 and 93 are 91 in the west coast all we have in the west is 91 its the price we pay for life!
Im still in the biz i just dont drive!
a lot of places in san diego had their tanks put out of service because of leaks apcd is cleaning up san diego in their minds they are helping but we know they just add to the cost of fuel!!!!!!
If you want to get the prices down. stop driveing when its not needed!
buy from one company start a back lash at the big oil !
and this is not a one day thing everyone needs to really take this as long as they can pick exxon are mobil are bp-arco are valreo are unical!
to really make a hit buy at the mom and pop store big oil will see a glut in their supplys quick!
just my 2 cents!

reply to post by murkywater

You Europeans have NO concept of the sheer size and distances involved in driving in the U.S

In Canada the sheer size and distances involved is at least twice that of the U.S. Especially if you're talking driving from major city to major city. They're paying way more for gas too.

reply to post by Rockpuck

If gas hits $7.00 a gallon I feel for the gas station .... people like me may just take them over. No way in hell am I paying that much to drive..

Carefull! You may just have to eat your words, and possibly sooner than later.

The price of gas just reached $3.39 in my area. I read the other day that electric hybrids won't be introduced until at least 2 or 3 years from now. In the laboratory, they successfully converted wood and non edible parts of plants to fuel at an equivalent cost of around $1.70 a gallon and think they might be able to get the cost down to $1.00 a gallon. However then I read they need to experiment in the real world with bigger equipment and it may take 8 to 10 years to perfect the technology. I'm curious about hearing a story where some guy grew some algae and converted it to a biofuel. Algae can grow in waste water and has a much higher and better conversion rate to biofuel than ethanol does. I heard that at least. Unfortunately all these cheaper fuels seem to be years away.

Brazil won't be too affected by the fuel prices since they converted to run on biofuel produced from sugar cane if I remember correctly. I thought I read the US has placed restrictions on certain imports related to this biofuel. Then the oil companies here are claiming they need to do maintenance to their refineries right now. I see what they are up to. Refining profit is down so they take the refineries offline which drives up the price of gas by reducing supply. They do this every year and then claim it's the time to do maintenance. This time they took so much offline that it matches the level of operation right after Hurricane Katrina I read. This sounds like Enron except the product is gasoline instead of electricity.

I guess the oil companies are only speeding up their own demise since high gas prices will hopefully speed us off the use of gasoline for transportation. I'm not sure why they aren't charging more to refine gasoline unless the oil companies fear congress will tax their big profits if the oil companies gouge us too much. On the other hand, I guess they thought they would just reduce the supply of gasoline and gouge away. It worked for Enron and electricity in California for a while I heard. The oil companies will probably get the price up, then ramp up their refineries and claim the maintenance is finished so the issue will blow over. Then hopefully prices will go back down a little. I'm ready to use the equivalent wood biofuel that costs a whopping $1.70 a gallon now instead of waiting 10 years.

Originally posted by alphabetaone

I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound condescending, however youare so wrong in so many venues it's not even funny.

First off, they are NOT mixed at the pumps. Any retailer who is mixing them at the pumps is breaking the law and should be arrested.

Secondly, and this would address more than one post, as an ASE certified automotive professional, I will tell you this much about the higher octane rating. The higher the octane doesn't JUST necessarily mean higher HP throughput...it also has vehicular therapeautic value in that, the higher the octane, the more efficiently the fuel burns-the more efficiently the fuel burns, the more of the fuel that actualy burns AWAY from the cylinders, valve guides, valves, converters, etc. The less carbon buildup in a motor, the less propensity it has for breakdown, and extends the longevity of the motor.


AB1

Here's a reference from the Federal Trade Commission that shows high octane gas does not keep an engine any cleaner. I've given you two references that prove your entire post inaccurate.



Federal Trade Commission

I don't normally call people out but there's one thing that I find intolerable on a forum where information and facts flow freely. That's when someone identifies his/herself as a professional, writes a post they claim as fact and the post is absolutely wrong. I simply did two Google searches: "gas station engineering" and "high octane cleaner engine" and found plenty of references that prove you wrong.

When you identify yourself as an authority on a subject then steer people wrong you are doing a disservice to this forum. I will keep an eye out for your posts and advise others do too.

I wouldn't let you change my oil.

Originally posted by alphabetaone

Originally posted by ColdWater
Those pretty straight up honest to a fault gas station owners are BSing you about being out of 89 octane. 87 and 91 or 93 are mixed at the pump to make 89.

The station knows most people will buy 87 now that gas is rising. A few used to buy 89 because everyone in America believes if something costs more it is better. Those with sports cars are being pushed to 93 to make up for the lost revenues on 89.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound condescending, however youare so wrong in so many venues it's not even funny.

First off, they are NOT mixed at the pumps. Any retailer who is mixing them at the pumps is breaking the law and should be arrested.

Secondly, and this would address more than one post, as an ASE certified automotive professional, I will tell you this much about the higher octane rating. The higher the octane doesn't JUST necessarily mean higher HP throughput...it also has vehicular therapeautic value in that, the higher the octane, the more efficiently the fuel burns-the more efficiently the fuel burns, the more of the fuel that actualy burns AWAY from the cylinders, valve guides, valves, converters, etc. The less carbon buildup in a motor, the less propensity it has for breakdown, and extends the longevity of the motor.


AB1

no he is right they do blend at the pumps i drove a gasoline tanker for 10 years!
most do now only have 87 and 91 in california and blend 89 at the pump its a 50/50 blend for 89
and it is the additive that makes it better and cleans the motor i happen to have a bit of techron from my old days so no matter where i get gas ill add some every month to my tank!


[edit on 28-4-2008 by Neutron580]

[edit on 28-4-2008 by Neutron580]

Update:
Fuel in my lab area of Bowie, Md. has hit $4.25 for 93 the four stations in that were out of 89 are STILL OUT! Regular is now @ $4.01