Lights in Phoenix again!!

I agree with 27. There are many here who will constantly scream "where's the evidence to show that it's from another planet or a secret plane?" So I hold you guys accountable for that statement. Where's the evidence to support this guy's claim of helium balloons? Nothing has been recovered, and no one is doing anything to show this evidence except believe 2 random guys going on TV claiming their 15 minutes of fame. Now the guy never gave any info as to what kind of balloons were used for this "hoax" but he did say he used a flare. And the reporter had a flare and a balloon in his hand, a balloon he said that he picked up from a party store. Look up the info about helium balloons and what happens when they rise.

here's some I found.

To understand how high the balloon will rise, you have to understand what happens to the air outside the balloon as the balloon rises. As the balloon rises, the air outside the balloon changes in three ways. First the air becomes thinner (less air pressure), secondly the air becomes colder, and thirdly the air becomes less dense. Because of these changes to the air, a balloon will begin to get larger as the balloon rises. Eventually the balloon will get so big that it will burst. If a special helium balloon could be made to expand enough and not burst, it could float all the way up into outer space.
For a typical birthday-style balloon, the height it would rise to before it would burst will depend upon how much helium was put into the balloon. If you filled a balloon all the way up, it could easily burst before it reached 2000 meters in height. If you filled the same size balloon with only half as much helium (to make it rise more slowly) it might reach 6000 meters or more before it burst. Although such a balloon could easily reach the altitudes used by small single-engine type airplanes.

Isn't it a coincidence that approximately at the same time these lights were seen in Phoenix, a large white light appeared over the area of St. Augustine, FL?

Yeah really prove it. If they were flares, then he will be able to recreate the video from the event night. MAtch that withthe video taken. If they look similar, then BANG! Hoax. If they are different, it's an actual event.

I have experience with what I call visual debunking. In 1998 I lived in Gulf Breeze, and I had a part time job delivering Pizza. One night in Tiger Point Practically the entire Cul-De-Sac where I was delivering had people in their yards pointing up. So I look, and there is this brilliant rose colored light. It would break into 2, then 4, then 8, then 16, and just BAM< BAM BAM, smaller & small. Then it would reform as another giant rose colored light. People were vocally in awe. Also, that night there was alot of MH-53 Pave Low Air Force Helos & Jet's of some sort, (could only hear the jets), flying over Gulf Breeze. I mean they were flying pretty damn low over people's homes. Seemed to me like they were on a recon mission to try to get footage of this.

So the VERY next weeked, a C-130 with a ROSE colored flare on a tow line flew low over Tiger Point. It looked totally different, but my thought was that they were practicing visual debunking. What I mean by that is that if you THOUGHT you saw a cool UFO last weekend, guess what? You're wrong, it was a flare.

I consider myself an expert observer. I was an ANGLICO Marine, (Air Naval Gunfire Liason Company). We often did night time close air support drills. I know what aircraft & flares look like at night.

My biggest problem with the flare theory is that the story states the hoaxer unidentified. Thats a double standard to use testimony from an unidentified source as proof against a unidentified group of lights. Duh.

Why did the chopper pilot take so long to tell his story? Seems to me like perception control.

Still haven't seen the video to make up my mind, but the reasoning behind the flare story is weak. And really, if we all belived mainstream news, would this site exist?

I haven't seen a lot of video that I think is valid. But I have seen UFOs. So I tend to be extremely sceptical of UFO footage. I'm also very sceptical about information sources.

The part I can believe is that if they were flares, then the changing of formation isn't really that big a deal when you take wind currents into account. But, like I said, I need to see the video.

reply to post by snookhums


Not to mention, like I said, why was the person who sent them up not charged?? Here's a little legal info...

Fireworks are illegal in Arizona. It is against the law in Arizona to sell, use, explode, or even possess fireworks. Events that are held on any public school, state, or county properties that involve fireworks and and pyrotechnic displays must receive a permit from the Arizona State Fire Marshal.

How Are Fireworks Defined in AZ?
As far as Arizona is concerned, fireworks includes any "combustible or explosive composition, substance or combination of substances, or any article prepared for the purpose of producing a visible or audible effect by combustion, explosion, deflagration or detonation..."
phoenix.about.com...

I find it VERY hard to believe that charges weren't filed, or that somebody would admit to something that could have endangered lives due to the two close airports, and the wildfire danger.

edit, to late..

[edit on 23-4-2008 by atrofi]

Originally posted by BlueEyes
reply to post by Shrukin89

 

"The thoughts you create in your head, eventually manifests into reality."

I'll remind a dragon next time I meet him/her. Thinking does not always equal manifestation.

However, these items are clearly UFO's, being unidentified and all. Except for those that, probably, are laughing due to their lanterns causing headlines.



[edit on 22-4-2008 by BlueEyes]

How can thinking not always equal manifestation? Once you can picture it, all you gotta do is find a way to put it into action. So from your example of meeting a dragon. For you to meet a dragon.. Is to create one. It's possible but not impossible. Use your imagination.. Oops did I say that out loud? It doesn't mean that when a dream doesn't come true into this reality, that it can't come true in another reality.

Each of our realities are a grain of sand in comparison as to how much grains of sand that make up a desert.



What I really mean't is positive or negative thinking, that results in a positve or negative reality "that you have made yourself." We respond to these positive or negative energies that we recieve. Or you can also say that we respond to higher (positive) vibrational frequencies and also lower (negative) vibrational frequencies. Whether it would be from another dimention, from a plant, a tree, a rock, or from an individual like yourself. Everything resonates energy or frequencies. If you want peace, send out postive energy. If most of us if not all of us resonate positive energy on Earth, it then means that we resonate at a higher frequency which attracts other things that have higher frequencies like perhaps... Extra terrestrials.

Originally posted by Sovereign797
Epic fail by the news channel for not checking with any other base but Luke. Yeah, Luke is in Phoenix, but they're not the only ones who fly there.

Not that WE were actually night flying on that night (we weren't), but they didn't even bother to check.

Though the first Phoenix lights I thought were originally explained as flares, possibly from an A-10 (ours).

And considering someone came forward claiming they were responsible for these lights, I can't see taking any of the Phoenix lights seriously at all now.

I've seen some good unexplainable video, but the phoenix lights isn't one of them.

Are you kidding??? The Phoenix Lights is the real deal, I PROMISE you that!!! It's by far the most compelling mass sighting in recorded history, and the best documented one as well. Like I said, I saw it first hand. I was there, it was real, end of story.

These lights from a couple of nights ago I didn't personally see. So , I am reserving judgement on it. But, the event from 11 years ago (as well as MANY other events I have personally seen here in AZ) was a REAL event!!!

[edit on 23-4-2008 by bigdaddy7ftr]

Common sense where art thou? I know this forum leans towards extraterrestrial explanations but it can only go so far before it tips over! The national news correctly stated that someone in Phoenix launched road flares, which do sputter out instead of burn out, tied to helium filled balloons from their back deck.

Fireworks are illegal in Iowa but ever since I was a child in the 50s we could always "smuggle" fireworks from Missouri and use them. So just because their illegal in Arizona doesn't mean they can't be smuggled in. And these were not fireworks but long burning road flares.

I hate to be an "I-told-you-so" but at 851AM on the 22nd of this month I revealed my childhood secret of long sparklers tied to helium filled party balloons in the 60s. If I lived through such an experience then someone else could come up with the idea as well.

Some people go to the well of truth to drink and some only to gargle. I'm reading a lot of garglers right now. It was a hoax people. A dangerous hoax that I no longer advocate because such devices could drift into the commercial air lanes and disrupt air traffic. And we all know the airlines are late enough as it is.

IT WAS JUST A HOAX PEOPLE. Sorry to burst your bubbles. (Or balloons)

Originally posted by qxlb52
Fireworks are illegal in Iowa but ever since I was a child in the 50s we could always "smuggle" fireworks from Missouri and use them. So just because their illegal in Arizona doesn't mean they can't be smuggled in. And these were not fireworks but long burning road flares.

Yes, but please refer back to the definition of what AZ considers to be fireworks...

As far as Arizona is concerned, fireworks includes any "combustible or explosive composition, substance or combination of substances, or any article prepared for the purpose of producing a visible or audible effect by combustion, explosion, deflagration or detonation..."

So, in this case, they would be considered fireworks, since they are combustable and wouldn't have been used for their intended purpose, but to create a "visible effect". I'm not disputing that fireworks can be obtained here. AGAIN I ask, why would charges NOT be brought against an individual who announced to the world that he broke the law and put lives and property in danger for a hoax? Hmmmm....

Common sense where art thou?

A dangerous hoax that I no longer advocate because such devices could drift into the commercial air lanes and disrupt air traffic. And we all know the airlines are late enough as it is.

EXACTLY! And those would have been released in VERY close proximity to TWO small airports, Deer Valley, and Scottsdale. Both are pretty busy. That said, AGAIN I ask, why would an example not be made of the man who ADMITTED to this???

IT WAS JUST A HOAX PEOPLE. Sorry to burst your bubbles. (Or balloons)

No bubble bursted here, like I said, I'm not jumping on ANY bandwagon. But I question the "flare tied to balloon" theory. Oh yeah, and flares are quite a bit heavier than sparklers, it would take a BIG helium balloon to carry them that high.

[edit on 23-4-2008 by 27jd]

This could be easily resolved. The guy says he sent up four flares on balloons launched one minute apart. Let him do it again and see if the results are the same, or even close.

If you can do it once you can do it twice.

Anyone live in that area? Get four flares and some helium balloons and give it a go. See if it can be duplicated.

Either the guy claiming responsibility is a government hack sent in to make sure nothing in the area would be taken seriously again, Or the lights can't be explained.

Someone should try and duplicate his claims.

Oh man, the UFO and Alien topics have become overwhelmed with childish nonsense. Pretty much guarantees it will reside in the realm of bizarre nonsense for a long time.

I live in North Phoenix (7th st & Bell) and I saw the lights, I saw them rise from a little north of me, then float around in the sky for a while, they moved around into shapes, but appeared to be tied together or something.

I read on azcentral that it was flares tired to balloons? That seems like bull, how did they stay together, then flow apart sepretly?

reply to post by 27jd

Oh yeah, and flares are quite a bit heavier than sparklers, it would take a BIG helium balloon to carry them that high.

Very good point 27,wonder what kind of balloons were used?I have tied small toys to helium party balloons for my daughter before,only to have the toy drop to the ground as soon as I let it go.So the balloons had to be very big.

I read the azfamily article, it says the guy let them go one by one, a minute apart, right? That doesn't make any sense then, how did they forum shapes and move around?

I am new to the board, so this may be a everyday occurence, but this kinda freaks me out, there is no way ballons could move around like that into shapes, let alone hold up flares! They must have been big bundles of balloons.

I know mythbusters did a test to see if enough baloons could lift up a kid, and they filled up like 5,000 balloons and it barley lifted the 60lb kid.

From what I found online, A typical helium-filled balloon on a ribbon can lift 4.8 grams.

A flare probably weighs like what, 4 ounces?

So it would take approx. 16 standard balloons to lift one flare. Hmm

wow Josh that is a GREAT point. I hadn't thought about that.

I remember in the video of the reporter holding a balloon and flare he is holding the flare in his hand, but I guarantee if he dropped it the balloon would not float away.

One balloon lifting a flare might be possible, but we need to get to the bottom of how much a flare weighs. I can't find any flares giving their weight except LED flares which I got weigh about 1.84 ounces. A real flare would surely weigh more. We are back on track!

Frontpage of Yahoo now says it was certainly flares on balloons...

I'm inclined to agree.

To the people who are shouting out for him to prove it by doing it again, have you thought that he might have been trying to recreate the event from 11 years ago?

You're never going to be happy, until you are there personally watching him launching the balloons, one by one, with a light meter and altimeters attached for verification purposes, and possibly even then, you'll be shouting out the next day that you missed out on another UFO fly-by because you were hanging out with this hoaxer watching him launch balloons.

To the people who say the aliens formed patterns, would the patterns have also been the same viewed from a different angle?

If the aliens were going to make contact, the wouldnt bugger off after a brief glimpse. They would do something a little more outstanding than just float in the sky.

Its over.
You were wrong (this time).
Stop clutching at straws.
Move on

[edit on 24-4-2008 by Mark Roazhar]

[edit on 24-4-2008 by Mark Roazhar]

Fox news is saying this morning that it was a man in Phoenix in his yard that set flares up in balloons that shined for 14 min. The Judge said the man should be held accountable for it.

Everyone laughed and made a joke of it and IMO this has to stop. I think the man should be held accountable for it as the Judge said it is a danger.

This seems to be another thing we will never know if true or not. As I see it just because someone said they did it doesn't mean they are telling the truth they might just think they are again being funny and the news will jump on anything.

I'M NOT SORRY TO SAY IT'S PEOPLE LIKE THIS THAT TURN MY STOMACH!


[edit on 24-4-2008 by observe50]

I ain't gonna fall on the balloon bandwagon. I have seen lights such as the Phoenix ones a few years ago in South Africa. I posted it on ATS back then as well where others said it was the same thing as Phoenix lights.

Now i do not know how the new Phoenix sighting compare to first one but if it was anything alike there is no way it was balloons. Could very well be man made , even what i saw, not saying it is ET but "top secret-ish".

And there is no way people would believe until the real thing happens. With all the CGI hoaxes and tech everyone has become a skeptic in their own way nowadays.

This guy claiming he did this could be lying thats all thats important. We have skeptics here and to see skeptics shoot down advanced cgi and photoshop yet a dude says he did this and already he is credible.

IMO they could not of held formation for that long if they were flares tagged to balloons its just stupid and who is this guy i haven't seen him and no one knows his name much less his neighbors name that said he saw the guys send it up. I want to see an interview with the guy and his neighbor the witness.

My guess is that this will be labeled a hoax by the media and buried with no follow up. In fact it will be used to discredit the first citing in Phoenix years back.

We have countless witnesses to seeing spacecraft yet they are either kooky or lying yet this guy is credible just because he says he did it. It just shows that skeptics are just UFO skeptics but they accept everything else at face value just ironic thats all.