More convicted felons allowed to enlist in Army, Marines

reply to post by GradyPhilpott


Just to be clear:

I am not in the service, nor will I ever enlist, therefore according to you I am....

A Pansie
A Parasite
and a Coward

I am a coward for not supporting the killing of innocent people, torturing prisoners, invading a soverign nation based on lies, and a laundry list of other crimes. If war solved problems then we'd never have more than one of them. War creates war. There is a civil means to go about everything, unfortunatly man found killing other men to be the best message, but really what has war solved? I argue that a coward is someone who takes illegal orders and carries them out. A coward for failing to speak up and take a stand against what is morally right and wrong.

I support our troops, I do not support an illegal war. I don't have to earn my freedom, I believe I was born into a land that has a bill of rights. I am fortunate this is where I was born, although as of late that perspective is starting to shift.

A Pansie? I hardly think so. Make no mistake I will pull the trigger to defend myself, my family, my friends, or anything else that I hold dear, only as a last resort in a life threatening situation.

I support the rehabilitation of prisoners into soldiers, I support the idea of a second chance, depending on the crimes they are guilty of, of course.

Terrorists may have bombed one of our ships and one of our embassies, but I will not be convinced they dropped the twin towers until better evidence is provided to support the official story.

A parasite is something that lives off of something else without providing any benefit to the host. My tax dollars provide to the host, therefore I am not a parasite.

A pansie in my eyes is someone who sits around telling other people what to do, yet isnt partaking in the orders. My question to you is, would you still be enlisted in the military right now if they didnt have age requirements?

When was America elected as the world police?

And since when was it decided that to be an asset to society you have to serve your country?

Welcome to 2008


[edit on 22-4-2008 by BluByWho]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
What evidence do you have that murderers and rapists are being actively recruited, or is it that you just can't pass up an opportunity to make unfounded statements against the US military?

Well I'd say those soldiers involved in the Abu Ghraib scandal definitely fit the bill of rapists and murderers.

"'The American public needs to understand we're talking about rape and murder here. We're not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience,' Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina told reporters after Rumsfeld testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee. 'We're talking about rape and murder -- and some very serious charges.'

Maybe something more recent like the Rape gang that was uncovered last year better fits the description..

A second US soldier's plea of guilty to the gang rape of a 14-year-old Iraqi girl and the killing of her and her family has been accepted by a judge.

Here's another interesting [url=http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=ind_focus.story&STORY=/www/story/04-21-2008/0004797048&EDATE=MON+Apr+21+2008,+05:00+PM]article[ /url] for you to read..

WASHINGTON, April 21 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The House Oversight and
Government Reform Committee today released data showing a dramatic rise in
the number of moral waivers issued to recruits joining the Army and Marine
Corps. The number of waivers granted to recruits convicted of manslaughter,
rape, kidnapping and making terrorist threats, doubled between 2006 and
2007. During that same time, the Pentagon continued discharging service
members under the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" law banning lesbian, gay and
bisexual personnel from serving openly in the military. Pentagon officials
released the data following a request for the information from Committee
Chairman, Congressman Henry A. Waxman (D-CA).

I know war is Hell Grady, but it shouldn't be for innocent women and children. Do you? Recruiting sex offenders and thugs is the equivalent of turning a pack of wild dogs loose on a playground.

[edit on 4/22/08 by LLoyd45]

GradyPhil

How do you comprehend the fact that so many of your fellow americans disagree with your position? Are they all "ignorant to the fact" cowards in your opinion?

Why do we require oaths to say, "defend america against enemies foreign and domestic?"

It is your ideology to consider all defense against the domestic enemies a "pansy cause?"

And the fact that you didn't think my question was deserving of a response only reveals your unwillingness to consider your perspective could be contaminated by personal experience. I guess when you have an idea, you don't think you're biased when you like it.

We claim to be in a war on terror. However the number of terror attacks has went up each year since 1996. And the whole would would know that fact, but the Bush Administration cancelled the 19 year old terror report.

CHUCK KENNEDY, KRT
But other current and former officials charged that
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice's office
ordered "Patterns of Global Terrorism" eliminated
several weeks ago because the 2004 statistics
raised disturbing questions about the Bush's
administration's frequent claims of progress in the
war against terrorism.

And if we are creating more terror attacks. Could we not assume that in the carnage of our actions, more orphan children will grow to hate the murderers of their parents?

"Instead of dealing with the facts and dealing with them in an intelligent fashion, they try to hide their facts from
the American public," charged Larry C. Johnson, a former CIA analyst and State Department terrorism expert
who first disclosed the decision to eliminate the report in The Counterterrorism Blog, an online journal.

This was a cia director and terrorism expert. But I guess you'd call him a "pansy" as well?
If you'd like to think outside the box even more, click here.

AAC

]

[edit on 22-4-2008 by AnAbsoluteCreation]

You're a very thoughtful young man.

My experience has taught me much.

I am not convinced that lack of experience is an advantage in assessing something as complex as the geo-political issues we now face.

From your perspective people become more stupid as they age.

You may believe as you choose, but it is clear to me that you have not yet learned to distinguish between causal and corollary relationships.

That's an important distinction. You should learn it as quickly as possible or you will spend a lifetime blinded by charlatans.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
You're a very thoughtful young man.

My experience has taught me much.

I would agree on both accounts.

It is just you have fell short on verifying this with wise words, as of yet.

I believe i have points, yet you disregard them and make assertions about my maturation deficiencies.

AAC

Simply put, I have said what I intend to say on this subject.

I have learned that I can't possibly refute every single assertion that can be found on the internet.

When I have stated my case and I feel that it I can offer no more, then that's where I leave it.

We've now gone beyond the scope of the thread.

I thank you for considering my view.

Also, I'm not actually addressing your maturity, except to say that as you mature, you are likely to see the world in different terms.

I have also encouraged you to become a more disciplined thinker, so that you can be a more effective critical thinker. That's a matter of education and practice.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
From your perspective people become more stupid as they age.

I see you are done, but I'd like to interject.

Certainly no-one becomes 'stupider' with age. What people may do, in some cases, is reach a level of self-assurance where they are naturally less open to a critique. It rubs off as an elevation above matters that are still worthy of inquiry. When you decided your position here it became invulnerable to comment.

Originally posted by SteveR

Certainly no-one becomes 'stupider' with age. What people may do, in some cases, is reach a level of self-assurance where they are naturally less open to a critique.

Please bear in mind that I spend a considerable amount of time here on ATS reading and discussing many issues with which I may have no experience or with which I may disagree.

My mind is open to evidence contrary to my beliefs, but I'm not so naive or gullible as I once was, so don't be surprised if I am not so easily swayed.

After you've been lead down the primrose path a few times, you begin to approach things with a little more caution and the red flags that were either not seen or were not heeded become all the more evident.

You will learn, I hope. Of course, we still may disagree.

[edit on 2008/4/23 by GradyPhilpott]

reply to post by GradyPhilpott


Okay. In closing, I'd like to recommend the following.

"War Is A Racket", by Major General Smedley Butler USMC

Link: www.ratical.org...

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Simply put, I have said what I intend to say on this subject.

I have learned that I can't possibly refute every single assertion that can be found on the internet.

When I have stated my case and I feel that it I can offer no more, then that's where I leave it.

So basically what you're saying is: when the facts disagree with your assertions, and you cannot disprove them, you close your mind to any further discussion, and chalk it up to everyone else's lack of wisdom and maturity. That sounds like real critical thinking skills to me..

Originally posted by LLoyd45
So basically what you're saying is: when the facts disagree with your assertions, and you cannot disprove them, you close your mind to any further discussion, and chalk it up to everyone else's lack of wisdom and maturity. That sounds like real critical thinking skills to me..

That's not what I said. That's your interpretation. You know that you can find something on the internet to support virtually anything.

I'll put my education, experience, and critical thinking skills up against yours everyday.

I'm under no obligation to pursue a dialog longer than I choose to do so.

That's another lesson I learned the hard way, right here on good old ATS.

Thank you.

If you ask me, as a present member of the military, I would not like to serve, work, live or have anything to do with a convicted felon that serves in the military and here is why.

1. This people have chosen to violate the laws and more than likely the rights of this country and its citizens. Is that the kinfc of people you want representing your country in other nations? Do you really think they would care about the rights of Iraqis, Afghanis, Koreans, Japanese or any other overseas place we serve?

2. We have our fair share of bad apples as it is right now, and every single case of a military member doing something bad gets so much attention that I don't see why they would even take the risk to place people like convicted felons in the military.

3. The best thing about the military in my opinion is that we have a strong sense of community, we live on our bases like it was the 1950's, doors open, cars unlocked, kids play outside with nothing to worry about. You start bringing people that don't share or don't care about those values and then you place an unnecessary burden on military members, because we going to have to worry about, whose my neighbor? Was he a thief? A rapist? Would my neighbor hurt my family or rob me when I'm deployed. It just place unnecessary worries on those who don't need that.

4. By way of number 3, it just going to make it hard to have fully integrated force if are not able to trust each other.

Serving in the military should not be a right, it should be a priviledge for those who conduct themselves honorably.

My .02


[edit on 23-4-2008 by Bunch]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Simply put, I have said what I intend to say on this subject.

Fair enough. But ask 99 out of 100 random people and they'll say you've verified nothing but personal opinion, based on personal experience. Outside of that, you got nothing. And I think you know it, hence, "I have said what I intend to say on this subject."

I have learned that I can't possibly refute every single assertion that can be found on the internet.

Hell, just refute a few. You joined my thread and all you brought to the table was insults, biased conjecture, and a effortless refusal to explain your isolated perception with factual ideas. All I got was memories...

When I have stated my case and I feel that it I can offer no more, then that's where I leave it.

Case: Criminals Better than cowards. People against the war Pansies. And I can't forget the condescending attitude to my inquiries.

We've now gone beyond the scope of the thread.

You're not as smart as you think you are. < That is my opinion based on this whole thread, or you would divulge your reasonings.

I thank you for considering my view.

I thank you for not considering others views.

Also, I'm not actually addressing your maturity, except to say that as you mature, you are likely to see the world in different terms.

I hope it is not a blatant disregard for truth, as is reflected in your position.

I have also encouraged you to become a more disciplined thinker, so that you can be a more effective critical thinker. That's a matter of education and practice.

I'll take the "Pepsi Challenge" in 'critical thinking' against you any day.

AAC

reply to post by Bunch


Grady will probably just tell you that you're young and you will learn to like it.

AAC

reply to post by AnAbsoluteCreation


star for you.

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation


Grady will probably just tell you that you're young and you will learn to like it.

So far you've shown only a propensity for ad hominem and straw man attacks.

Congratulations.


[edit on 2008/4/23 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
That's not what I said. That's your interpretation.

Your post can be taken one of two ways Grady.. condescending or insulting. Age and wisdom do not necessarily go hand-in-hand. There are a lot of wise young people and many foolish old people. Experience isn't everything, it's what you learn from it that counts.

You know that you can find something on the internet to support virtually anything.

That's very true, but when you have reliable and factual sources, simply dismissing them is not critical thinking, it's denial.

I'll put my education, experience, and critical thinking skills up against yours everyday.

I imagine you would.. but no thanks, I pass.

I'm under no obligation to pursue a dialog longer than I choose to do so. That's another lesson I learned the hard way, right here on good old ATS.

Thank you.

You're right, and no one is asking you to. Just remember, declaring yourself right without any supporting evidence, doesn't make it so.




[edit on 4/23/08 by LLoyd45]

They are letting these guys enlist, but how many will actually make it thru the program? A lot will get the boot within the first 180 days.

And I never like it when the use the military for a social experiment. When they did "Project 100,000", the military saw it as a joke from the start.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott


So far you've shown only a propensity for ad hominem and straw man attacks.

Congratulations.


[edit on 2008/4/23 by GradyPhilpott]

I never attacked you, be silly. And just because I question conspicuous lies, doesn't mean I'm an authority hater, or think their is a conspiracy around every corner.

But if it looks like a duck, and quacks...

You talk in circles, without talking about the point. Did you come to this thread to just call everyone pansies?

AAC

reply to post by AnAbsoluteCreation


You shouldn't call me a liar.

I shared the truth with you as I experienced it.

I don't care you like it or not, but don't call me a liar.

[edit on 2008/4/24 by GradyPhilpott]