Recent trip to Area 51- Guards cross the line

Originally posted by cmd18B
reply to post by JB737

 

I visit an Army base here in NJ and they have private security but cannot enforce laws or initiate traffic stops or pursue off the reservation and thats a fact so if he was camping on public land and off the Air Forces property then whoever it was had no legal rights to ransack his campsite...Thats my big question. Are the laws in Nevada different?

Yes and no. Private security is probably not an accurate description of these guys' actual legal powers, but it is a fairly good approximation of their outward appearance and rules of engagement when nothing serious is hitting the fan.

It at least used to be true that some?/all? of the border camo dudes were also deputized in the county, so they in fact did have policing and arrest powers outside the line if need be. Even so, they traditionally deferred to the real sherriffs to handle arrests, etc. Mainly it's just one more way they "cross their t's and dot their i's" legally in case of incidents across/outside the line.

Post-9/11 conditions allow them to be given powers like that more secretly and from more sources, I suspect they do have valid policing powers outside the line. I believe someone (probably Glen?) found dozens of deputized-camo-dude names but didn't publish them, pre-9/11. That was back when the military and intelligence services had legal trouble acting as police within our borders, which is far less true today, so maybe they don't still need to do that.

Maybe now they can accomplish the same effect by some sort of MP or federal deputization unbeknownst to county/state officials. Maybe an executive order extends their duties/powers onto BLM federal/public lands. Maybe they take an "all of the above" approach.

It is hard to say what the real limit of their authority is, or where it comes from. I for one do not assume that their rules of engagement have them normally exercising all the powers they actually have. Some are probably reserved for when push comes to shove. That might even include the power to arrest tourists for photographing the "no photography sign" (and hence the military land beyond it) while standing on the BLM side of the BLM/military border doing the same thing 1000 others have done before without being challenged by them. They could be saving it for when someone on a watch list does it, and they take him by surprise.

As far as ransacking a campsite/tent on public BLM land, they stretched their normal rules of engagement, but whether they had the legal right to do it or not, or what triggered them to do it, is unknown. Maybe Ben uttered a "magic word" which coincidentally was a code word used in an intercepted terrorist message. Maybe he had earlier visited an aircraft-photo website where a terrorist had encrypted messages into photos. Many things might bring an innocent person under suspicion. Combine that with hanging out at a sensitive military border, and they probably did have the power to investigate.

I know for certain the camos can always rely upon a cozy relationship with the local court, which basically never allows a court decision to go against them.

I suspect they also rely upon additional legal powers they already have, or have quick access to, but don't invoke often. At least, I hope they have some hidden powers up their sleeve, in case the bad guys arrive.

JB737

I posted this when I wasn't logged in and it hasn't shown up yet wo will post it again .

If what you say happened happened then there might have been a reason , when you deal with a place like area 51 which is a place I am sure many people try to get into then who knows what might have happened before you arrived that put the base on edge or security alert .

Here in New Zealand there is a place known as New Zealand largest naval boat , which funnily enough is just a base in the middle of the island that has its own naval name (for example NZS whatever its called) anyway this base is on farmland and you never see guards or people just buildings but the inner fences are big with razor wire and everything but the outer fence is just a basic farm paddock fence . But on this farm fence is a small incognito sign with the words Trespasers will be shot clearly written on it .

If a little base in New Zealand has that written on it then I am suprised people get as close to area 51 as they do , I wouldn't be suprised if area 51 has an undisclosed perimiter where if people cross it they must investigate it . The thing people need to realise is that whether there is or isnt aliens and / or top secret technology there it is still a secret military base with highly restricted access and they probably don't want people hanging around and probably will use force to remove you .

Cmon guys why so quick to rip this guy apart. he posted something that he encountered. What in gods name would he gain off from lying? dont make too much sense. I was a flight specialist on an AC-130 based at nellis AFB. the guys that provide security are not government officials they are security guards, non military security guards similar to blackwater. they have prior military service but theyre nothing special just guards. the fact that this happend well ya it could there sense of morals and jurisdiction are not up to par with sworn officials. much different theyre chain of comand is not the same as conventional military. Good job man maybe when u go back you can keep ahold of your camera =) lol.

I have supported bknapple story from day 1. He has admitted to camping out there often, and it sounds like maybe too close or too often for the liking of the base security. I am willing to bet someone there or associated reads this website and similar ones. Where else can you read stories from the ridiculous to the inspired about how to get in there? Maybe with bknapples known camping trips there, and posting here, someone thought it was time to let "us" know not to f*** around.



[edit on 26-11-2008 by FosterVS]

reply to post by FosterVS


didnt think of it like that foster.


you may be on to something

reply to post by bknapple


I totally believe your story. When I was a kid we used to sneak as near as possible during the nuke tests (call it teenage immortality syndrome) I know how they behaved back then... one instance they would just stand by while people hurled insults at them another time they would process the entire crowd without any provocation...I had my car impounded in one instance for spinning my tires as I was leaving the gravel parking lot. There was no other vehicle in the "area" at the time and they were pulling in as I was leaving. I was detained for several hours and my car was impounded for over a month (The sheriff didn"t know anything and the MP's at Nellis said it wasn't their problem) I can only speculate as to how they may behave now with all of the "Conspiracy Theorists" and UFOlogists going out there but it has to try their patience. These guys DONT WANT US THERE !! Didn't then.... don't now!!! Consider yourself lucky all it cost was just your camera!!!
GO WILDCATS!!!!! DIRT

Keep in mind, private security or not, these guys are operating on a base that doesn't legally exist. Therefore, they are essentially operating under a type of immunity from prosecution.

The fact that they carry guns does lead me to believe they have the same power of arrest as any other law enforcement officer.

Here is a better question, you speak of your public rights, etc. What about their right to safety? Security? Granted, Area 51 is a fascinating location - one that has captivated the minds of many people in this country - but where do we draw the line between right and wrong when it comes to observing this base?

I'm sure you wouldn't be comfortable with a bunch of people constantly camped outside of a nuclear power plant. Taking pictures, always testing security. What makes a "Top-Secret" government facility any different? If nothing else, that tells me that there is something there that they can't afford to lose. Alien crafts? Advanced aircraft? Future weapons...? Who knows! What I do know, however, is that history has shown that when people harass base security too much they simply expand the restricted area of the complex. If you enjoy your camping trips then it may behoove you to cut them some slack.

Don't take what they do personally, they have a job to do and are almost certainly not making the decisions alone.

[edit on 12/21/2008 by JBurns]

reply to post by MrPenny


man,what are you even talking about?, are you trying to impress people because you know so much about guns? go to some NRA boards and jackoff with them