Civil Engineering Journal Accepts 9/11 Paper Regarding WTC Collapse!!

Big News folks!

This is an established peer-reviewed technical journal.

Here is the link to the journal.


A challenge of sorts was laid down by Noam Chomsky he wrote:

“You, or anyone who agrees with you, has a very simple task. Since the evidence is so obvious and compelling, submit an article about it to Science, or Nature, or even Scientific American, or more technical journals, say those in civil engineering, where your article can refute the conclusions of the professional society of civil engineers… To date, no one has been willing to submit an article -- at least, after probably hundreds of inquiries to Truth Movement advocates, no one has been able to mention one...”

Well here is that article. Another has been accepted by a mainstream journal yet to be announced.

This is a wonderful positive step forward in the quest for a new independant investigation!

The Open Civil Engineering Journal, a peer-reviewed journal, aims to provide the most complete and reliable source of information on recent developments in civil engineering. The emphasis will be on publishing quality articles rapidly and freely available to researchers worldwide.

www.bentham.org...

Fourteen Points of Agreement with Official Government Reports on the World Trade Center Destruction
pp.35-40 (6) Authors: Steven E. Jones, Frank M. Legge, Kevin R. Ryan, Anthony F. Szamboti, James R. Gourley


Abstract:
Reports by FEMA and NIST lay out the official account of the destruction of the World Trade Center on 9/11/2001. In this Letter, we wish to set a foundation for productive discussion and understanding by focusing on those areas where we find common ground with FEMA and NIST, while at the same time countering several popular myths about the WTC collapses.

www.bentham.org...

The PDF can be downloaded from the second link.

Good find Leo. Star and flag for you.

reply to post by Griff



Griff,

I can see you doing the happy snoopy dance.

I am not too familiar with the entire peer review process, but the process at Bentham is quite different from other peer reviewed processes.

First of all you have to pay to get your work published:

PUBLICATION FEES: The publication fee details for each article published in the journal are given below:

Letters: The publication fee for each published Letter article submitted is $600.

Research Articles: The publication fee for each published Research article is $800.

Mini-Review Articles: The publication fee for each published Mini-Review article is $600.

Review Articles: The publication fee for each published Review article is $900.

Once the paper is accepted for publication, the author will receive by email an electronic invoice. The fee form is also available on the Web site at www.bentham.org/open/feeform Submissions from the Editorial Board Members of the journals will receive a special discount of 50% on the total publication fee. Submissions by authors from developing countries will receive a discount of 30% on the total publication fee charge.

www.bentham.org...

Would this not make it a vanity publishing?

Griff ... tell me if this is typical for a peer reviewed process: (i never heard of this)

REVIEWING AND PROMPTNESS OF PUBLICATION: All manuscripts submitted for publication will be immediately subjected to peer-reviewing, usually in consultation with the members of the Editorial Advisory Board and a number of external referees. Authors may, however, provide in their Covering Letter the contact details (including e-mail addresses) of four potential peer reviewers for their paper. Any peer reviewers suggested should not have recently published with any of the authors of the submitted manuscript and should not be members of the same research institution.All peer-reviewing will be conducted via the Internet to facilitate rapid reviewing of the submitted manuscripts. Every possible effort will be made to assess the manuscripts quickly with the decision being conveyed to the authors in due course.

You can potentially choose your own reviewers at this site? Interesting.

Also Griff, are there any results in his paper? Where is the science? Were are the tests? The experiments? The results?

Also in the guidelines, Bentham states that they only refer to technical and review articles. This paper is a letter to NIST. Why was this allowed?

Anyway. This is not BAD news for the truth movement, just not the peer reviewed paper that offers anything scientific.

Thanks Griff, hope your weekend is going well. (great weather up here in Beantown)

CO,
Can you prove with evidence this is a "vanity press"?? If not you should not make the claim.

Your man R Mackey at JREF is trying to get the article pulled. Good Luck!

Publication fees are standard operating procedure in the world of the peer review process.

Dr. Jones did not pick his reviewers in fact he does not know who they were!

Originally posted by Leo Strauss
CO,
Can you prove with evidence this is a "vanity press"?? If not you should not make the claim.

What claim did I make Leo? Try reading my post. I was asking a question to Griff who is an Engineering student. I posted a link to the company that sent Dr. Jones an invoice. Dr. Jones admits on his website that he in fact paid for it to be published.

For you to think everyone pays to have their work published is not accurate.

Vanity press / Publish :

A vanity press or vanity publisher is a publishing house that publishes books at the author's expense. The term 'vanity' comes from the belief that anyone who uses this type of publishing must be vain and that they just want to see their name on the cover of a book.

en.wikipedia.org...

publishing at authors' expense: the business of publishing books at the author's expense

encarta.msn.com...
&
www.thefreedictionary.com...

Your man R Mackey at JREF is trying to get the article pulled. Good Luck!

He is? Not sure why he would want it pulled. He is probably just asking questions as to validity of it being peer reviewed and the processes involved.

Publication fees are standard operating procedure in the world of the peer review process.

Really? I would like that statement backed up by some engineers. Most I have spoken to have never heard of it.

Dr. Jones did not pick his reviewers in fact he does not know who they were!

So says Dr. Jones. How do you know? Because he said so? The identity of the reviewers I believe is not common knowledge. If I am wrong about this, please point me in the right direction.

Leo, what revelations has Dr. Jones presented in his papers that are backed up with experiments, tests, results, findings... etc. His paper is nothing short of an editorial with nothing to back it up.

Originally posted by Leo Strauss
Publication fees are standard operating procedure in the world of the peer review process.

Ok, I don't want to attack this on line Journal... I just wanted to throw this out there. Here is some information on Bentham Science Publishers that some may find interesting.

Dear All,

I would be grateful if anyone could help me. I am interested in
an Open Access publisher called Bentham Science Publishers
(www.bentham.org...). I have been contacted by a number of
researchers who say that the company is bombarding them with
invitations to contribute papers to its journals. Apparently
requests by the recipients to remove them from Bentham's mailing
list have little or no effect.............

Richard Poynder
www.richardpoynder.co.uk

www.library.yale.edu...

And a response from another:

Richard,

I enjoyed hearing about your efforts to contact Bentham Publishers. I, too, have been curious about them. I looked at www.journalprices.com to check on whether Bentham has ISI-listed journals and how they are priced. Journalprices.com lists 14 Bentham journals, 12 are classified as "bad values" in terms of price per article and price per citation, and 2 as "medium values". It appears to me that they are an established publisher that has fallen into "bad hands".

Not only does Bentham spam for authors. They are also spamming for editors.

Colleagues:
In last week's interesting CHMINF-L discussion on Nature's proliferation of new journals, faculty habits, and the serials market, I saw no mention of an ongoing parallel onslaught by Bentham. In the past month, I have received no less that three invitations to join the editorial boards of new Bentham journals -- "Current this", "Frontiers of that" -- none in areas of my real expertise.

The same old tactics are being used: exploiting a faculty weakness for seeing one's name in print, offering a career advance by having Editorial Board appointments on one's CV at promotion time, flattering authors with invitations to contribute papers in special issues, etc. All this effectively silences faculty from speaking out, or even caring about, the issues librarians understand so well. It is one of the reasons I am advocating that promotion policies at the University of California specify that appointments to the editorial boards of low quality, overpriced journals should count against promotion. The idea may not be so outrageous in five or ten years time.

...

PS. In case you are wondering, yes, I did hit the delete key on those Bentham invitations.

listserv.indiana.edu...


Chris Reed, Distinguished Professor of Chemistry (University of California, Riverside)
www.chem.ucr.edu...

reply to post by Leo Strauss

They paid to have it published. LOL

You send money to publish your work, what is the peer review? Making sure the check does not bounce? This is funny. No real journals take his work, but the pay as you go journal does? It makes you wonder if this Pakistani Journal peer reviewers can understand English. A Pakistan journal may think making veiled political statements in an engineering journal is proper. Is it really based in Pakistan?

It took Jones 2 years to find someone to publish his political work, and just 4 years to make up thermite.

Let's see..Peer Review Fees:

Peer Review can be a powerful tool to improve your agency's
management and the results it achieves. It's an excellent
means to reinforce a commitment to positive change and
improvement.
Any engineer/director of a public agency may request a peer
review by contacting the ASCE Peer Review Program
Coordinator at 800-548-2723 and completing the Public
Agency Peer Review request form. Upon receipt of the
completed form, the program coordinator will appoint a
peer review team leader and the review effort will be
determined. The coordinator will also obtain confirmation
that the required fee shown in the fee schedule is acceptable.
ASCE has professional staff available to answer questions,
provide information, and guide you through the peer review
process. For more information, please contact the Professional
Activities Department at ASCE Headquarters, 1801 Alexander
Bell Drive, Reston, VA 20191-4400, or telephone at
800-548-2723 (ASCE).

The spirit of voluntarism works in your favor. Fees for a
peer review are based on covering costs of the program.
Depending on the size of your organization, number of
peer reviewers, and time needed on site to effectively review
your organization, peer reviews range from $5,000 to
$15,000 — a value that could well exceed $100,000 at
standard consulting rates.

www.asce.org...

Yes, it's such a joke that someone would have to pay for a peer review service.



[edit on 4/20/2008 by Griff]

reply to post by Griff

You made a mistake, the peer review you at talking about is for an organization, to review the management, to make it better! Funny mistake, but you can try again, or ask for some peer review to help you figure out from people who have made it to journals. Have you;

[edit on 20-4-2008 by beachnut]

To provide open access, PLoS journals use a business model in which our expenses—including those of peer review, journal production, and online hosting and archiving—are recovered in part by charging a publication fee to the authors or research sponsors for each article they publish. For PLoS Biology the publication fee is US$2750. Authors who are affiliated with one of our Institutional Members are eligible for a discount on this fee.

journals.plos.org...

"Openess" means that the costs of running this service can not be covered by subscribers, but have to be covered by the research grants of the author or the authors' institution.

Before submission, authors have to pay a submission (peer-review) fee (US$ 250), which will partly be passed on to peer-reviewers and supervising editors. The peer-review fee / submission fee (US$ 250) must be paid using PayPal.

In addition, if the paper is accepted, authors have to pay a copyediting and production fee of US$250 (this is an introductory fee which may be raised in 2004).

www.yi.com...

SEND a $40 processing and review fee (if applicable) made payable to AAFCS as soon as possible after submitting the manuscript for Scholarship or Strategies for Success manuscripts for peer review. Processing of manuscripts cannot begin until the fee is received.

www.aafcs.org...

BHF-funded authors publishing in Elsevier journals can comply with the BHF policy by paying a fee to the journal to help offset the cost of peer review and other publishing costs. BHF will reimburse authors who have paid the fee. The fee has initially been set at $3,000 per article for all Elsevier journals except those published by Cell Press, which have a $5,000 per article fee, and The Lancet, which will have a fee of £400 per page. The difference in fees for The Lancet and Cell Press reflects higher associated costs.

www.elsevier.com...

Seems like everywhere I look, there is a publication/peer review fee.

So, want to try again with your lame debunking?

[edit on 4/21/2008 by Griff]

I'm all for it but for some reason I can't access the pdf

I would have expected the title to be '114 points of disagreement' but I'm still keen to see what they have to say.

Originally posted by beachnut
reply to post by Griff

 

You made a mistake, the peer review you at talking about is for an organization, to review the management, to make it better! Funny mistake, but you can try again, or ask for some peer review to help you figure out from people who have made it to journals. Have you;

[edit on 20-4-2008 by beachnut]

A simple google search with the keywords "journal + peer review fee" came up with loads of on-line journals that you have to pay a fee for.

So, did I make a mistake or did you guys jump the gun?

Talk about moving the goal posts.

First it was: "The truth movement doesn't have any professionals or engineers to back them up".

Along comes Dr. Jones and AE9/11truth.

Then it was: "Well, they don't have any peer reviewed papers to back them up".

Enter this thread.

Now it's: "But, But, But.....they paid to have their paper published".

Which I have shown is the norm. Where's the goal post going to land this time I wonder?

reply to post by Pilgrum


The paper can also be found here. Just scroll down.

www.911blogger.com...

Here is the link at the publication:

www.bentham.org...

Furthermore.

It would be easier if you guys could come up with sources where people can get published in an on-line journal and peer reviewed for free.



[edit on 4/21/2008 by Griff]

Originally posted by Griff
Furthermore.

It would be easier if you guys could up with sources where people can get published in an on-line journal and peer reviewed for free.

No, fees are not common for reputable journals. Your first example was a big mistake, they do not charge, it was for a management review.

This was funny, it is not a fee for a paper.

The spirit of voluntarism works in your favor. Fees for a
peer review are based on covering costs of the program.
Depending on the size of your organization, number of
peer reviewers, and time needed on site to effectively review
your organization, peer reviews range from $5,000 to
$15,000 — a value that could well exceed $100,000 at
standard consulting rates.

Not a fee for a paper. This was funny, don't you think?

You have found "OPEN ACCESS", journals; use them at your own risk. Go ask your professor. Have you published a paper before; you seem lost trying to prove a fee. Relax, not all journals charge a fee. End of story. Open access journals have to charge fees, and if you do not see the problem, then you do not use the journal fro research in the first place so why do you care. The fact is, Jones had to pay to get his paper published, I did not. But then fact based paper are accepted by real journals, false information political tripe are not!
You find what you are looking for.

When we put in our paper, there was no fee. We did not pay to publish, Jones did. I can find many, guess I am right, you find what you are looking for. (tomgp) When we put in our paper, there was no fee. We did not pay to publish, Jones did. I can find many, guess I am right, you find what you are looking for. Research is self critiquing.

[edit on 21-4-2008 by beachnut]

No, fees are not common for reputable journals. Your first example was a big mistake, they do not charge, it was for a management review.

Wrong. To get published in the ASCE journals, you have to register. I would assume that there is some type of fee or the reviewers would be doing it voluntarily.

You have found "OPEN ACCESS", journals; use them at your own risk. Go ask your professor.

First, this journal is an open access journal, so, I don't see what the big deal is.

BTW, I've been out of school for over 12 years now. I don't know where you and CO are getting that I'm still a student?

Have you published a paper before; you seem lost trying to prove a fee. Relax, not all journals charge a fee. End of story.

Well, since I'm the only one who has come into this debate with sources, I can say to you. "Prove it".

Prove to me and everyone else that journals peer review your papers for you for free. This is a Capitolist country you know.

The fact is, Jones had to pay to get his paper published, I did not.

The fact is, going by your grammar and the way you type, I'm surprised anyone would publish you.

But then fact based paper are accepted by real journals, false information political tripe are not!
You find what you are looking for.

Again. Proof that you can get published and/or peer reviewed for free.

[edit on 4/21/2008 by Griff]

Originally posted by beachnut
You have found "OPEN ACCESS", journals;

Gee, we are talking about OPEN ACCESS JOURNALS. The name "Open Civil Engineering Journal" should have been the first clue.

[edit on 4/21/2008 by Griff]

reply to post by Griff


Thanks for that - interesting reading and good questions asked.

Let's hope it leads to better and more thorough answers than those we've had to date. I'm not threatened by whatever those answers might be, just let them be the real facts.

Originally posted by Pilgrum
I'm not threatened by whatever those answers might be, just let them be the real facts.

That's the kicker isn't it. I'm not threatened by what the answers could be either as long as they are truthful. You have to wonder though, why so many are in opposition to the questions being asked in the first place. Ahem...posters on this thread.