Cops Point Firearms, Arrest 10-year-old For Making Noise

Cops Point Firearms, Arrest 10-year-old For Making Noise

www.canada.com

The parents of a 10-year-old boy who was handcuffed and placed in the back seat of a police cruiser for being too noisy intend to file a complaint against Ottawa police today, alleging that at least one officer went too far in the way he treated their son.

Thomasz and Santana Gurzynski say police drew their firearms before entering their Norberry Crescent apartment and scratched the back of their son, Lucasz, while forcing him to sit down for questioning without an adult present.

Mrs. Gurzynski, 35, believes it was an overreaction by police, who were responding to a neighbour's complaint that the Grade 5 student and five friends were playing video games too loudly and play fighting with wooden sticks.

(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
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Those police officers were causing more problems, than that girl. They failed to realize that young girls, who scream when they're upset are normal. Unfortunately, police officers, who attack, harass, and kill children by "accident" because they're trigger-happy is normal too (in China, Iraq, Afghanistan, and other police-states, such as the NAU & EU).

www.canada.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 20-4-2008 by ChadAndrewATS]

I think the police didn't know what kind of situation they were walking into and that's why they drew their weapons.

There is probably a problem with the way the situation was handled after the entry into the home, but your assessment of the incident is alarmist to say the least.

No one was shot. No one even fired a gun, but you bring up the subject of killing children.

Having read the article, I don't see a connection between it and your assessment in the least.

[edit on 2008/4/20 by GradyPhilpott]

Ok this article has to be the worst written peice of news I have ever read. Or its all fabricated. Lets look at a few things I (as a law enforcement officer) noticed.

"They shouldn't be that loud, but the punishment didn't fit the crime," said Mrs. Gurzynski, who was walking home from her mother's nearby house with her husband when the police arrived and apprehended her son shortly after 5 p.m. on Sunday.

Ok I understand the parents may not have been TOO far away, but they left a 10 year old home alone to decide how loud HE wanted to be, not to mention he go to decide how he was going to act, since there was NO supervision. IMO it wasn't a good move.

"Lucasz said he and his friends had been playing video games and fighting with the wooden sticks for about 40 minutes when a male neighbour yelled at them to quiet down and threw an empty beer can at their balcony, breaking a window."

An empty beer can broke a window? Doubt that...PLUS...its not confirmed by the police or media. They just take the word of a 1o year old and write it in their article!!! Why didn't the police go visit the neighbor who scared the kids by breaking the window? ANSWER....because a neighbor didn't break the window...the kid and friends broke it and they made up a story! Remember...WOODEN STICK FIGHTING!!!

Frightened, Lucasz said he and his friends left the apartment. When he returned with a 12-year-old female friend between five and 10 minutes later, three police officers were waiting for him in the hallway.

After he unlocked the apartment for the police, two of the officers drew weapons and kicked the door open before returning the guns to their holsters.

Ok this part is interesting. So the window gets broken "somehow" and the kids take off. The kid DOES NOT GO GET MOM & DAD he goes and gets a female friend and they return to the apartment they were just scared away from. When they arrive the cops are there in the hallway. Now, again NO parents...just a 10 and 12 year old. 10 year old has a key to come and go as he pleases apparently.

IMPORTANT!!! The article is written to make you believe the cops drew thier weapon on the boy in this part. UNTRUE. They drew eapons to clear the apartment and make sure everything was ok and safe. Again..no parents around, just kids, a complaint was made..they are checking the area...NOT DRAWING THE GUN ON THE KIDS!!!!!! Plus the end of this section says they kicked open the door before holstering their weapons...yet the article states the boy opened the door for them...AND from a LEO perspective...why would you holster AFTER the door was opened. Once the door is open then you would draw your weapon to make entry. This article sucks..

Lucasz said one officer then grabbed him by the shoulder and sat him down on a chair, scratching his back. He said the officer spotted a knife in the kitchen and told Lucasz that, if he had been holding it when they came in, he would have been Tasered.

Now my guess is they entered the apartment together, so the boy was NOT in the kitchen when the cops walked in...the ARTICLE tells us that because the boy unlocked the door for them..remember!!!!

So this again sounds fishy

The officer also wanted to know the names of the other children who had been at the apartment.

Well DUH! Kids home alone, noise complaints, no parents, MAYBE a broken window...OF COURSE they want the other kids names....oh and one thing...where is the 12 year old girl?????? She isn't mentioned AT ALL...even though she was there when the cops were. Did the media decide to NOT mention her!!! Yeah i find that interesting....

"After they finished questioning me, they handcuffed me," Lucasz said yesterday, adding the officers ignored his request to speak to an aunt who lives in the same building.

Again IMPORTANT, where are mom & dad...who in the article earlier said arrived WALKING from their parents home "close by" as police arrived. So the boy says they wouldnt let him talk to his aunt but the article says mom & dad arrived on scene while the police were there?????????

Mrs. Gurzynski said police told her neighbours reported that children were frequently alone in the apartment, an allegation she denied. While she and her husband should have arrived home sooner, Mrs. Gurzynski said, she wasn't worried because her son was at the apartment with two 12-year-old girls.

WOW...so mom thinks two 12 year olds got it covered...unreal!

She believes police should have waited for Lucasz's parents to return home before questioning her son.

"Not allowing him to have an adult present is unacceptable," she said.

Perfect example of denial. Mom leaves kid alone, kid gets to loud, I think lies to police, mom is NOWHERE to be found...yet the cops are bad bad people!!! Guess what MOM...if your home where you should be, or took your sone with you..NONE OF THIS HAPPENS!!!!

BOTTOM LINE...this article stinks. There are NO FACTS, NOTHING!!! They have the word of a 10 year old, a missing 12 year old that they say was there but then wasn't. A neighbor breaking a window with an EMPTY beer can yet its not reported by police, or no action is taken..I already mentioned why. This article and story are BS...and you actually bought it because you and MANY others will look for anything...true or not...to bash the police.....anyone with common sense could pick this article apart in seconds. But when your filled with hate its MUCH MUCH harder to see isn't it?



[edit on 4/20/2008 by rcwj75]

reply to post by ChadAndrewATS
Gonna play a little Devil's advocate here.
Mom and dad say they know the cops scratched their sons back and drew down on their son. Mom and dad were not there. How many of us have lied to our parents at that age to try and get out of trouble thinking they will not find out? I know I did. Course I also know it never worked, yet that didn't stop me from trying.

Best part...I notice the OP has a bunch of stars and this thread has been flagged 12 times.......that proves to me one thing. There are many cop haters on this site and MANY members who DO NOT read the articles, or research drawing to a conclusion. Some of you are such sheep that you will read a SMALL post by someone, star it then flag it, and move on just because it meets your criteria for HATE!

After breaking this article up and PROVING it stinks and this incident didn't happen the way the OP and Media say it did...I now see that its becoming a sad sad world we live in where people don't care about the truth, all they care about is making themselves feel good by any means available.

Borderline Pathetic...

I dont see what is wrong with the article. It is reporting what is the statement of the parties involved.

rcwj75

You have basicly written your own article, trying to paint pictures in peoples minds the way you want to see it. If there is any more to the story it is up to an investigation to coplete it, not the brainstorming of a online poster. You put forward a lot of insults based on your opinion, and then placed yourself on the high road for being so insightful. Have you thought about politics?

Ok that was pretty funny... they're fighting with sticks but it was an empty beer can, apparently launched at mach 2, that broke the window. Kids these days... just not very creative.

Well, not sure about about ottawa, but here in the states, it is LEGAL for a 10yr to stay home alone. While I would NEVER leave mine without supervision, my sister did run into this issue with her son.

2nd. Realistically, I think this was probably the ghetto. Cops feel and act differently in different places. In this case they cleared the apartment. If this was a luxury condo, that cost 300k, they probably wouldn't had bothered. Additionally with the amount of kids present, you just don't see this in upscale apartment complexes. Therefore, I think the cops were on edge, cause they don't know where the adults are, they recieved a noise complaint, and for all they know mom and dad could be snort coke, smoking meth, and loading there shot guns. Ofcourse there going to clear the apartment before they go in and question the kids, I would too.

3rd. Again, like it or not we are in a class based society. they called this kid a Bitch, because they were attempting to intimidate him. They were attempting to intimidate because they wanted to know every law that was broken, or could possibly be broken before mom and dad actually arrive. that way when they decide to search the apartment, and find dad's stash and an illegal gun, they had plausible cause.

Is what they did right, possibly no, on the other hand, in this case, I think this issue is something more in the middle. I don't think the kids were innocent, but at the same time, it is entirely possible that the police may have went a little over board.

From a neighbors standpoint, having lived in the ghetto when I first got married, the apartment complexes have paperthin walls, litterly 2X2 spaced 4ft apart with drywall on the outside,no insulation. You can hear your neighboring farting in the next apartment, let alone 5 kids going nuts on jedi republic, while smacking each other with sticks immitating luke, and obi.

In my opionin the parents are justified in there complaint, on the same token, police are going to treat you differently if you are lower class, its just the way it is. Deal with it, or get a better job, and get out. And for the neighbors, hey man, I too worked overnights, and man those kids pissed me off, you know what though, I bought ear plugs, ear mufflers, sleeping pills, and yes nightquil is your friend. Additionally, if it got too bad, instead of calling the cops, I knocked on the door, talked to the kids, and nicely asked them to quite down. Kids tend to listen to you when you play with them, and you know what, on the weekends playing an hr of bball with them goes a long way. You got to expect kids to be unwinding though at 5pm at night.

Cheers,

Camain

reply to post by camain


Camain, while I agree with most of what you say, I have a problem with your final bit of advice. Say I live in a lower class section of town. Unless I find a better job and get out, I should just swallow everything thrown at me simply because i was not blessed to be born rich? That doesn't make any sense, as all people should be treated equal. We all know that is not the case, but if I live n the lower rent district I should not automatically "Deal with it" rather than complain about bad treatment by cops.

Originally posted by rcwj75
Ok I understand the parents may not have been TOO far away, but they left a 10 year old home alone to decide how loud HE wanted to be, not to mention he go to decide how he was going to act, since there was NO supervision. IMO it wasn't a good move.

If a parent trusts a kid to stay home alone for a little bit, they'll let them do it. Just because a child has a potential to misbehave doesn't mean that he or she will.

An empty beer can broke a window? Doubt that...PLUS...its not confirmed by the police or media. They just take the word of a 1o year old and write it in their article!!! Why didn't the police go visit the neighbor who scared the kids by breaking the window? ANSWER....because a neighbor didn't break the window...the kid and friends broke it and they made up a story! Remember...WOODEN STICK FIGHTING!!!

First of all, the police won't report every bit of evidence to the media. Second, the media won't report every single detail that they have. The police could have very well found an empty can and either neglected to inform the media, or the media negelcted to report it. Second, it could have been a fragile window. I've broken window with the palms of my hands with very little pressure. Third, if they were playfighting inside and broke the window from there, the broken glass would have been more plentiful on the outside, thus throwing the beer can into question. Finally, young age does not necessarily correlate with inaccuracy. Children can make good witnesses if interviewed correctly.

Ok this part is interesting. So the window gets broken "somehow" and the kids take off. The kid DOES NOT GO GET MOM & DAD he goes and gets a female friend and they return to the apartment they were just scared away from. When they arrive the cops are there in the hallway. Now, again NO parents...just a 10 and 12 year old. 10 year old has a key to come and go as he pleases apparently.

Never heard of a latchkey kid, have you? I knew plenty of kids in elementary school that had their own key, and Canada is even more lax than the US about it. And seriously...when I was scared of something as a kid, having a friend along made me feel better about it. It's probable (given the 5-10 minute timeframe) that the friend lived closer and so the boy decided to go to the friend instead.

[quote[They drew eapons to clear the apartment and make sure everything was ok and safe. Again..no parents around, just kids, a complaint was made..they are checking the area...NOT DRAWING THE GUN ON THE KIDS!!!!!!

They drew their guns when responding to noisy kids. Because noisy kids are dangerous, you know.



[edit on 21-4-2008 by Tsuki-no-Hikari]

Originally posted by rcwj75
IMPORTANT!!! The article is written to make you believe the cops drew thier weapon on the boy in this part. UNTRUE. They drew eapons to clear the apartment and make sure everything was ok and safe. Again..no parents around, just kids, a complaint was made..they are checking the area...NOT DRAWING THE GUN ON THE KIDS!!!!!!

Would YOU draw your gun if you were just responding to a complaint about noisy kids? Last I checked, kids can get noisy, but I rarely hear about dangerous 10-year-olds.

And for the record, the police don't draw their guns when responding to noisy parties near my college. But then I guess those little kids are much more threatening, right?

Plus the end of this section says they kicked open the door before holstering their weapons...yet the article states the boy opened the door for them...AND from a LEO perspective...why would you holster AFTER the door was opened. Once the door is open then you would draw your weapon to make entry.

1. The kid opened the door part of the way, the cop then kicked it the rest of the way open.

2. This one's just too obvious. If you draw your weapon after the door is open, you could get killed. Upon finding that no threat is present, you holster your gun.


[quotes]Now my guess is they entered the apartment together, so the boy was NOT in the kitchen when the cops walked in...the ARTICLE tells us that because the boy unlocked the door for them..remember!!!![/quotes]

Yes, because it's impossible for the cop to have been able to see the kitchen from where the boy was seated, right?

oh and one thing...where is the 12 year old girl?????? She isn't mentioned AT ALL...even though she was there when the cops were. Did the media decide to NOT mention her!!! Yeah i find that interesting....[/quotes]

She wasn't involved in the original complaint, and thus was not pertinent to the situation.

So the boy says they wouldnt let him talk to his aunt but the article says mom & dad arrived on scene while the police were there?????????

The boy wasn't allowed to talk to his aunt, and therefore it's odd that the parents returned during the situation.

That makes no sense whatsoever.

[quote[WOW...so mom thinks two 12 year olds got it covered...unreal!

I'd be surprised if you've met a single kid during your lifetime. I've met plenty of responsible kids aged 12 or younger.

Perfect example of denial. Mom leaves kid alone, kid gets to loud, I think lies to police, mom is NOWHERE to be found...yet the cops are bad bad people!!! Guess what MOM...if your home where you should be, or took your sone with you..NONE OF THIS HAPPENS!!!!

How exactly is that denial? Last I checked, 12 isn't the age of consent in Canada, and thus it would be unlawful for a child to be questioned without a parent or guardian's consent. And again, it is NOT uncommon for parents to leave their children home alone for short periods of time. And kids get just as noisy, if even noisier at playgrounds at yet no one calls the police on them.

BOTTOM LINE...this article stinks. There are NO FACTS, NOTHING!!! They have the word of a 10 year old, a missing 12 year old that they say was there but then wasn't.[/quotes]

People get convicted all the time based on circumstantial evidence and eyewitness testimony. You'd be surprised at how little "facts" surface in a courtroom. And again, just because they're young doesn't mean they're lying.

[edit on 21-4-2008 by Tsuki-no-Hikari]

[edit on 21-4-2008 by Tsuki-no-Hikari]

[edit on 21-4-2008 by Tsuki-no-Hikari]

Face, it. You aren't going to get an honest debate from anyone in law enforcement for the simple fact they have this delusion that everyone is a criminal. They, as the so called authority, have dominion over the truth, and as such, are better than you (and not a public servant, unless of course you consider the ruling elite "public") and even if they lie, it's okay, because, you are a criminal, and they are not. That's what's pathetic.
Scratch that. What is truly pathetic is how terrible cops are at lying, eventhough they have daily, if not by the minute practice.
I read a letter to the editor in our local paper that said police use of tasers stems from frustration of the seeming lack of respect from society. I would correct that by saying lack of respect for society. That and being just lazy bullies with chips on their shoulders.

reply to post by rcwj75


You didn't prove anything. You just assumed the kid was lying and made up your own version of the events. (BTW, Ottawa Citizen is a reputable Ottawa newspaper)

Is it any wonder people don't trust the police? They outright lie, they deleberately sabotage peaceful protests and they even murder.

Judging from the US government's CointelPro activities, they don't seem to question any orders from authority, even if it means threatening, harassing or even murdering their own citizens.

and oh, ya... they have guns. (which they don't seem to realize how scary they can be)

Originally posted by rcwj75
all they care about is making themselves feel good by any means available.

Could you elaborate on how the notion of having trigger-happy cops going around with loaded guns makes us "feel good"? Me thinks you're the one trying to "feel good".

BTW, rcwj75, your avatar is against ATS's avatar guidelines:

6) No persons pointing weapons at the viewer of the image.

So kindly point your weapon elsewhere.

NOTE: Alex Jone's article is not even a proper reproduction of the original article. The end is taken from another article elsewhere. Another great example of AJ's reliability.


[edit on 21/4/08 by ConspiracyNut23]

reply to post by ChadAndrewATS


I think the police didn't know what kind of situation they were walking into and that's why they drew their weapons.

the neighbor phoned the police of a noise complaint, of course they knew what they where walking into.

pennywise say it the best *snip*


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[edit on 21-4-2008 by 12m8keall2c]

reply to post by ConspiracyNut23


Well thank god its not a "person" pointing the weapon...nice try though. Are you twelve? You don't like my post so now lets play "tattle tail"....good god pathetic!

As for the article...again its POORLY written, and says a lot about the people who would put this out as a story WITHOUT ANY facts. WAY to many things out of place. But again many of you prove your hate for us EVERY time you post...so its no wonder you'll jump on a false bandwagon.

and hey APC...a mach 2 empty beer can...priceless..

Well thank god its not a "person" pointing the weapon...nice try though.

How is it not a person? Anyway, it's for the mods to decide, I'm simply pointing it out.

Are you twelve? You don't like my post so now lets play "tattle tail"....good god pathetic!

Now, that's a personal attack. That's against the T&C. I'm telling Mommy.

As for the article...again its POORLY written, and says a lot about the people who would put this out as a story WITHOUT ANY facts.

They are reporting witnesses' testimonies. The police were given a chance to tell their side. They chose not to. (afraid of law suits?)

But again many of you prove your hate for us EVERY time you post...

I've given you examples on why people might distrust law enforcement officials. You haven't commented on any of those. Waco and Ruby Ridge are other examples of why people distrust law enforcement.

They are not making it up.


[edit on 21/4/08 by ConspiracyNut23]

Enough sniping and attacking each other.

Stay on topic. Mommy is watching.

[edit on 21-4-2008 by gallopinghordes]

reply to post by ConspiracyNut23


A person is alive, and takes breaths to maintain life...my avatar does not do so...hence NOT a person. Doll DOES NOT = Person...IMO...anyway...

I agree with you on the point that we as police have bad apples in our ranks that do things they shouldn't and it casts a bad shadow over the profession. Especially FEDERAL LEO's...I agree 100% that Ruby Ridge and Waco were major blunders.

As for the article...again...there is ONE witness...he is 10...he lied...now to NOT get in so much trouble he will lie again and blame the cops. Wonder where he learned that? I'm guessing MOM & DAD who leave their 10 year old alone for hours on end and even have neighbors who agree they leave the kid alone to much!!!!

EDIT TO ADD: There were NO witnesses actually. The kid is the "suspect"...also the reason the police aren't commenting has nothing to do with a lawsuit...it has to do with not making a mountain out of a molehill! As soon as those officers deny this "alligation" the cop haters will scream "cover up"....so what good is it talking to the media these days?

[edit on 4/21/2008 by rcwj75]

reply to post by rcwj75

A person is alive, and takes breaths to maintain life...my avatar does not do so...

I see, something like Ceci n'est pas une pipe.

I agree that the officer calling a 10 year old boy a "bitch" sounds a tad strange. And I'd like to see a picture of that window supposedly broken by an empty beer can. (Who throws beer cans at kids anyways?? strange neighbor! )

Is it customary for police officials not to comment? Even when openly attacked in a press article?

I'd like to point out that the Ottawa Citizen did not use the same inflammatory headline that Alex Jones did. It's no secret that Jones is a bit of an alarmist.

Police too rough on noisy son, parents insist in the Citizen
vs.
Cops Point Firearms, Arrest 10-year-old For Making Noise in Jones' Prison Planet.


[edit on 21/4/08 by ConspiracyNut23]