12,000 Year Old Temple Found in Turkey

Pardon me but where are the pictures? I can't seem to find any.
Nice find OP!

reply to post by tyranny22


That's EXACTLY what I'm wondering. Unless they feared someone would find it. And then that calls into question whom they might be hiding it from???!?!?

I hope someone finds something that tells why they buried it during their excavations. This is VERY interesting to see now.

TheBorg

reply to post by TheBorg


The question of why they would bury it jumps out at me too, big time. I can't think of anything else that has been deliberately buried like that. Doesn't really make much sense. Places have been buried by natural events or slowly over time after being abandoned, but...

Wait a second - this temple was dated before we learned agriculture?

*has been spun*

This discovery defies everything we thought possible for human society!

Potentially, this could shape the way we think about how humans have survived in the past - we could learn whether or not we survived with domestication of animals; After all, if they weren't surviving on farmland then we would have had to of learned some way of providing the slaves (or w/e) with enough food to get them to keep working on the site, my primary bet being a herd.

*throws skepticism to the wind*

This could reveal so much about how humans thought about the world back then it's awe-inspiring!

At the top end of the scale, this compares with discoveries such as the terracotta army, and could easily be one of the greatest discoveries of the 21st century.

The primary excavator suggests that this temple was used for funerary rites. I wonder how long it was in use before being buried. It must have been a relatively short period of time, which to me suggests that either what needed to be done was done (that is, our necessary rites are complete and we can now bury this temple--it being a place of reverence would require that it be buried rather than left exposed to the elements) or there was a perceived threat to the temple from which it needed protection. If the latter case is indeed true, I think that a mundane explanation is initially best rather than jumping to more sinister theories. Perhaps another group of individuals, more powerful than our Gobekli Tepe group, found this temple and its associated spirituality threatening and in need of eradication. Working from our basic knowledge of human behavior, this would certainly be possible.

Any thoughts? This particular aspect of Gobekli Tepe--its burial--is the most salient point of interest for me. I would love to hear other ideas.

All this news of hidden "Cities/places" underground, makes one wonder what else is underground in various locations, as well as how deep things are underground. Perhaps it is human nature to build these time capsules for whatever reason either way, it all comes out interesting.

I have a theory. What if a "time-quake" is what happens in 2012, and we're all sent back to the stone-age. Everything gets reset. Would we leave monuments warning us of what what was to come? Would we understand the warnings, since things like language and such would probably end up being different than the "today" we now now? The Tower of Babel myth in play here? Are we just on a time loop, trying to fine-tune our existence over and over again?

reply to post by fiftyfifty


I think this is important too. What this basically is starting to show us that the Egyptians were the middle children. And I think we are going to continue to find more proof of that.

not that this belittles the Egyptians achievements or the fascinating history, they jsut were not first, but may have refined everything.

reply to post by nixie_nox


Actually, this find may lend more credence to the theory that some of the Egyptian monuments are actually much older than is generally accepeted.

EDIT to add: And here's an afterthought. What if the Sphinx found depcited in Turkey is not of a creature, but of the Egyptian monument itself?



[edit on 4/18/0808 by jackinthebox]

thats the thing about science it can change based on new evidence and from the evidence we had before they had established a time where agriculture was born and with enough evidence that timeline might change too. Im sure a culture sophisticated enough to build structures out of stone would have the capabilities for agriculture and some sort of domestication or else they would not have the resources to stay in one place to build such a structure.

edit: as far as the stuff found underground part. well with time dirt/ dust covers everything, it does not mean that when the structure was built it was built underground.. disasters happen and structures get covered, other civilizations come in and build on top. Im leaning towards something along the lines of cities under existing ones that noone has discovered yet forgotten by time. Places that are prime for settlement will be rebuilt long after their original inhabitants have washed away by sand and time.

[edit on 18-4-2008 by Fibonacci11235]

reply to post by RUFFREADY

This is a great find! Now maybe the folks that buy the 6,000 year old earth belief will take a second look.

I agree, trying to tell the age of the Earth by who begot who in scripture as postulated by Bishop Usser is not valid. First of all the Hebrews recorded by patriarch and not by linear year. There could be a 1000 years between patriarchs but that seems to be over looked.

On topic: Great find, just another piece of evidence that man was not dragging his knuckles and grunting. I have read that the great pyramid Cheops was constructed around 11,500 years ago, very close to the time of this temple. Not to mention the cities of the Indus valley in India that also date to the same time period.

What makes the discovery remarkable are the carvings of boars, foxes, lions, birds, snakes and scorpions, and their age. Dated at around 9,500 BC, these stones are 5,500 years older than the first cities of Mesopotamia, and 7,000 years older than Stonehenge.

Source

They don’t state how they determined the age of this discovery. I would be interested in knowing how they came to this determination.

Interesting find.

Originally posted by pstrron
reply to post by RUFFREADY

 

This is a great find! Now maybe the folks that buy the 6,000 year old earth belief will take a second look.

I agree, trying to tell the age of the Earth by who begot who in scripture as postulated by Bishop Usser is not valid. First of all the Hebrews recorded by patriarch and not by linear year. There could be a 1000 years between patriarchs but that seems to be over looked.

On topic: Great find, just another piece of evidence that man was not dragging his knuckles and grunting. I have read that the great pyramid Cheops was constructed around 11,500 years ago, very close to the time of this temple. Not to mention the cities of the Indus valley in India that also date to the same time period.

Yes, great find just in time for Passover !!!

Our understanding of past is constantly in flux by design of the gate keepers.

The Human existence is much older than the current 6000 year old civilization model, which appears to be of non human origin and exists only to generate wealth and repress spiritual awakening.

Ultimately it appears we are caught in a time loop which ends in disaster, then rinse lather and repeat !

reply to post by Scott Creighton


Awesome find! I can't wait to see the artifacts, the sphinx figure being found there is , I think, going to turn out to be very significant! Thank you for sharing this article!

reply to post by jackinthebox


That was my first thought, that it could prove the Pyramids are older than thought. I have never seen any evidence that convinces me they are the age purported.

Almost all the evidence shows that the current age of the pyramids is probably correct, but the Sphinx might be far older, like at least from 10,000 BC, due to the evidence of considerable water erosion on the body and the walls of the chamber. It is thought that the current head was carved from the original head of the Sphinx. The last time there was enough rain in the desert to create this level of water erosion in the desert in Egypt was 10,000 BC.

The interesting part is that the stone circles are similar to Stonehenge, which demonstrates some kind of cultural connection. It makes sense that these sites would show up in the desert, being that the environment is far more conducive to preservation. Clearly from this site, civilization began long before it was previously thought. Did anyone look up the Venus of Willendorf statues, which some believe to be 22,000 to 24,000 years old.

I find it funny that they automatically assume that this was before agricultural based civilizations were developed. It is very strange that this site appears to have been buried. That is spooky, what with 2012 approaching. Maybe we are about to wake up the God of Abraham.

reply to post by space cadet

Hello JackintheBox,

JackintheBox: ...it could prove the Pyramids are older than thought. I have never seen any evidence that convinces me they are the age purported.

Alas, only physical evidence from the Giza pyramids themselves will be able to offer incontrovertible proof as to their age. This has been discussed recently here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Best wishes,

Scott Creighton

Originally posted by fiftyfifty

"Look at this", he says, pointing at a photo of an exquisitely carved sculpture showing an animal, half-human, half-lion. "It’s a sphinx, thousands of years before Egypt. Southeastern Turkey, northern Syria - this region saw the wedding night of our civilization."

Incredible find. I find this quote really interesting. What could the sphinx actually be. Either the ancient eqyptians had some connection with this ancient civilisaion or the sphinx actually existed ...

[edit on 18-4-2008 by fiftyfifty]

Indeed. I pesonally always viewed the spinx as the symbol of what we literally are, namely a thinking head attached to a wild animal. A thinking God mixed with the animalistic dimensions of our environment.
It creates a fiersome image.

Very fascinating stuff indeed, pre-agrarian people gathering in one place to have rituals.
What caused these hunter/gatherer people to come together at one place?

What I find very interesting is, that there are places around the world that are and have always been "holy" places.

Places where people have gathered, for as far back as you look, to worship the gods or god in favor at the time.
Each culture building on top of the the previous, in many cases the original temple or site haveing been lost in the process.


I was first introduced to this notion, after reading an article by a Japanese archeologist/anthropologist. He noted that there are places in japan, where people have been gathering for 10,000 years or more. In some of these places temples still stand, although they are now bhudist and shintoist.
In the oldest of these sites there is always a "prayer ring", i think is what they are called, a ring of small stones, a few feet in dia.

After reading this mans fascinating article, I saw a documentary about some roman/greek/ancient gods temple in Turkey.
The show was basicaly about how some roman emporer had built some amazingly grand temple , to a female god, on the site of an older greek temple,to a female god .
That greek temple had in turn been built on top of some older local relgion's temple to a female god.
That temple was inturn built on top of the site where some old godess had decended to earth .
And at the very bottom of it all was a ring of small stones.
Hmmm

There are many places around the world where the "gods" came down from the heavens and bestowed favors upon the rightous.

Whats up with that, it's cross cultural, so who did descend from the sky and when?

reply to post by punkinworks


From Inside the Neolithic Mind: Consciousness, Cosmos and the Realm of the Gods by David Lewis-Williams and David Pearce (2005):

"Even more elaborate pre-farming structures occur at another site in south-eastern Turkey. It is known as Gobekli Tepe. The German archaeologist Klaus Schmidt is excavating it. Discoveries of this magnitude are given to very few archaeologists.

"Gobekli Tepe is on the summit of a hill strewn with Neolithic flint artefacts; it has a wide view over the adjacent countryside. There, in this commanding position, Schmidt found at least four circular structures partly cut into the limestone bedrock, a feature that made them semi-subterranean and rather like crypts. Dating them proved difficult. But two radiocarbon dates from charcoal that had been part of, and covered by, infill when the structures were abandoned suggest that 9600 BC may be a fair estimate of their age. This conclusion places the structures in the very early period known as the Pre-Pottery Neolithic A (PPNA) [2]. Confirmation of this date comes from later round structures of the succeeding Pre-Pottery Neolithic B (PPNB ) Period that partly overlapped the depressions of the infilled older structures. The massive rock-cut structures at Gobekli Tepe were thus roughly contemporary with Nevali Cori and the first hunter-gatherer (rather than farming) settlements at Jericho.

"As if rock-cut structures were not enough, Schmidt found that two huge stone stelae, of pillars, had been ereted in the centre of each 'crypt', and as many as eight further pillars around the peripheries of each. They are rectangular and flat in cross section; each has a wider top section. Some of the pillars are as much as 2.4m (8 ft) high and weigh up to 7 tons. Between the encircling pillars are stone-cut benches, as at Nervali Cori.

"Most sensationally, Schmidt found that the pillars had images carved on them. They include wild boar, gazelles, wild cattles, foxes, snakes and birds - no domesticated animals. Nor is there sign of any domesticated plants or animals in the deposits. These people were hunters and gatherers, albeit socially and economically complex. One pillar appears to have a human arm carved on it, and this feature, seen in association with the armed pillar at Nervali Cori, seems to confirm the impression that the stone columns are all somewhat anthropomorphic [...].

"The pillars came from a quarry about 91m (300 ft) away. There, the limestone bedrock was cut and the pillars shaped, at least to some extent. One pillar still in place in the quarry would, had it been removed, have been as much as 6m (20 ft) long and would have weighed 50 tons [...].

"Schmidt has found no traces of early Neolithic houses nearby. He therefore concludes that Gobekli Tepe was a ritual centre to which Neolithic people came for religious purposes. It may have been a site of intense religious experences that reinforced beliefs and social networks. Perhaps 'pilgrims' came regularly from as much as 100 km (62 miles) away, from a site known as Jerf el Ahmar, where there are comparable round structures with benches and also images of animals, but no rock-cut structures with stone pillars.

"While contemplating Gobekli Tepe, the English archaeologist Steven Mithen had an idea that supports what one of us had previously advanced for the domestication of cattle at Catalhoyuk and which, in general terms, followed in [Jacques] Cauvin's footsteps [3]. Mithen concluded that the religious beliefs embodied in the massive stone structures and associated carvings came before and eventually led to agriculture. How could this inversion of the sort of scenario that [Gordon] Childe would have recognized have happened?

"Schmidt pointed out to Mithen some hills about 30 km (18.6 miles) to the south. These are known as Karacadag ('Black Mountains'). Phylogenetic DNA studies had shown that this area was the origin of domesticated einkorn wheat. To put the matter more forcefully, Karacadag was the place of origin of domesticated grain and therefore the origin of the Neolithic [4]. Mithen suggested that the switch to domestication came about as a result of frequent ritual and construction activities that took place at Gobekli Tepe [...]. Large numbers of people, possibly measured in hundreds, would have been needed to make the Gobekli Tepe structures and pillars, and this would have necessitated the gathering and processing of much wild grain to sustain the workers. This activity would, in time, have resulted in fallen grain springing up, being gathered again and thus becoming domesticated. Mithen concludes that a drier climatic spell may not have been the trigger that set off Neolithic agriculture, as many researchers believe: 'It may have been a by-product of the ideology that drove hunter-gatherers to carve and erect massive pillars of stone on a hilltop in southern Turkey'[5].

"The good quality of Karacadag grain may have led workers returning home to take some with them to sow in their own gardens at Jerf el Ahmar and other settlements, eventually step-by-step even as far as Jericho itself. In addition to seashells and shiny obsidian that we know Neolithic people traded, the first domesticated strains of grain may also have spread across the Near East. Indeed, there is more obsidian at Jericho than one would expect for a town of that size; it may therefore have been a trading centre and one of its commodities may have been the Neolithic itself" (pp. 28-33).

Full ref here:

www.hallofmaat.com...,405229,405457#msg-405457

Scott Creighton