Same-Sex Couples Could Create Children

reply to post by Bhadhidar


Excellent post there Bhadhidar, very well articulated too That reflects my hearts' opinion as well

Originally posted by Conspiriology

Oh really?? First of all,, the New testament makes patent in the present what the old testament prophesied in the future. The new covenant doesn't give anyone of us a get out of jail free card NOR does it change Gods position on sin and yes Homosexuality is a Sin Period, Ipso Facto!

No, it doesnt give anyone a get out of jail free card, it simply changed the requirements. Jesus died for the forgiveness of sins thus 'hanging the old covenant on the cross' You continue to argue from the viewpoint of a Messanic Jew but profess to be an evangelical Christian. These two views are not biblically compatable. I'll be happy to debate you on these issues if you like, but if you remember, I can sling scripture at least as well as you.

You believe you can get cute shuffling the semantics and while not everything the Bible says the Bible endorses, one thing it is absolutely so clear about is that Homosexuality is an ABOMINATION in Gods eyes.

There you go again, using one of the 663 Talmudic Laws that were laid aside when Christ died. Forget the Aboniminations - it's not an argument you can win.

And what do you mean 'not everything the bible says the bible endorses'? Isnt the Bible the unerring holy word of God? Never to be questioned but only blindly accepted at face value?

That means the reader is assumed he has the common sense to know Jesus wouldn't HAVE to be asked such a stupid question as to whether he "personally" genuinely thinks so too.

OHHH, so now you want people to assume things and interpret the bible themselves. I thought that was taboo. The Bible being the unerring holy word of God and all.

Originally posted by jedimiller
Still, I'd say that you should read the bible, religious or not. And get educated somewhat on the diseases and dangers of being gay.

I have to ask: What are these diseases and dangers of being gay of which you speak.


[edit on 16-4-2008 by rizla]

Originally posted by Clearskies

Are THERE ANY Dominion Theological Christians on here???
Because Marge says we ALL are.

Well Marge, usually makes a lot of statements like that and one wonders where she gets it from. I have asked her many times, and we are left to our imagination being a magic eight ball or Sylvia Brown.

I got the idea from her post where she claims Christians are only trying to make her life as miserable as the Christians is.

I was thinking,, "Gee I should BE so inconvenienced, I should BE so bothered. lol

- Con

Originally posted by Bhadhidar
Homophobia is, in my opinion, more the product of truama induced by poor potty training, than any moral imperative.

Yikes. Sounds Freudian. A lot of mid-west mothers won't be happy with you.

[edit on 16-4-2008 by rizla]

reply to post by rizla


The first that came to my mind was being wary while walking around at night that people that hate gay people are going to pop out and beat you over the head with a baseball bat because they are propagating ignorance. That's a real danger right there, but people rather just say "oh it's the AIDS!"

Not everyone subscribes to this whole "its in the Bible" thing, and people just don't seem to get that. Its so easy to say "read the Bible" when you're a Christian to any "heathen" crossing your path apparently. :shk:

I am a Christian, but an open one.

I have nothing against homosexuals, live and let live.

But when you bring an innocent third part into the equation, I think some people need to stand up.

I'd like everyone to get off their political correctness high horse, and seriously think about what the child will miss. (And please, no 'oh but two fathers/mothers have the right blah blah blah'. This isn't about THEM, but THE CHILD.)

I was raised the first half of my life without a father. He left when I was young. So I know how it is NOT to have that figure in my life. I had friends who'd have their dad help them with the 'manly' school projects, in the boy scouts, teach them how to shoot. I didn't. And it's not just as much about having a 'man do a mans job' or a 'woman to do a womans job', since both can do it. It's about the feeling. The feeling of having your father (or mother) there with you doing what all the other kids are doing with their mother/father.

I didn't have a father figure in my life before I was fourteen. My grandfather stepped up to the plate. Taught me everything from firing a rifle, to teaching me how to drive my motorcycle. And I cherish that, and I WISH I had it earlier on. I wish I had a father that would have taken me to see the Yankees play, or down to the football field to toss around the football. Nope, none of that for me. My mother wasn't interested in doing that with me. Although I don't blame her, and she did try to get me interested in cooking. (Sorry, but at age ten, I could really care less how you bake an apple pie! )

That's the whole point here. Well, in my eyes it is. I'm not going to get into the whole God thing, because there isn't enough respect from both sides here on that issue.

The bottom point is, that no matter what YOU say, the CHILD in question will often think 'Why don't I have a dad?' or 'Am I normal?'. I know I did, and my parent's weren't even gay.

So before we march for the rights of the born, how about we think of the unborn for a change? And for those who come from gay parents and say you've never been teased. Please, seriously. I've had two friends with gay parents when I grew up. They felt exactly like me. Maybe that's why we were best friends.

Don't mean to upset anyone, just think that we need to take a broader look at what's going on here.

Peace,
FK

Originally posted by Conspiriology

Originally posted by Clearskies

Are THERE ANY Dominion Theological Christians on here???
Because Marge says we ALL are.

Well Marge, usually makes a lot of statements like that and one wonders where she gets it from.

Well considering they want the Laws to reflect exactly their Christian beliefs, and thus merge Church and State. Then I would say yes. They espouse the more radical and extreme flavor of Christianity, hence they are called "Dominion Theological".

For instance, always quoting Bible scripture when politics and laws come up, such as gay marriage. They want the State to reflect exactly what their Church thinks, above anything else. The examples can go on and on to support this justified title. You need but objectively read all their posts throughout these threads...

reply to post by Frontkjemper


In response to your post; I think it's usually not ideal to have a single parent, and better to have two parents. There are many factors to consider there. A HUGE one is simply the societal pressures a single parent is hit with while raising the child(s). The burden of making money? Typically speaking the more money that single parent is making the less time that single parent will spend with the children. It can be done, and it has been done, successfully. Much harder for them though.

As for lacking a father figure? I guess you can interpret it that way. Hey maybe that was 'the' reason? I won't doubt your account man! But many guys have been raised without a father figure, or had one only for a few years, and ended up A-OK. It's circumstantial, and quite dynamic I think. Just so many factors to consider in life, when determining the cause of why you are the way you are. You know?

But what about lacking a moral father? I myself had a father figure, 1 hetero male. He wasn't very moral, and he was an 'escapist' to family responsibilities. I lacked the 'moral father'. In many ways I feel like I didn't have a father at all. My mother was a saint. She was such a good parent it was as if she was two good parents all in one. It's all circumstantial. You just need a wonderfull parent(s) that loves you, and doesn't abuse you, and provides nourishment and safety for you.

[edit on 113030p://16u12 by Lucid Lunacy]

reply to post by Frontkjemper



The arugment "you need a mom and dad" STILL holds no water. It is not a sound argument.

If it did, then every single kid that came from a broken home or their father had died early on or they just never had a father around, would be screwed up.

Fact is, that is NOT the case. Many well adjusted kids and adults come from homes where there was NO father. That is fact.

Fact is....many screwed up kids come from families with a father and mother. Many fathers are quite screwed up themselves which means, many kids would have been better off without that father.

Also, gay parents do not beget gay kids. If that was the case then hetro parents would not beget gay kids.


Another point to be made.

The kids at school who are teasing kids who come from gay parents....well, guess where those kids learn it? Hmmmmmmmmm. Take a guess! From heto parents who are teaching HATE.

The argument about bringng a child into this is also faulty. What about mixes races? That used to be (or still is?) taboo. A black man marries a white woman and has a mixed child. That child gets teased. So, should we outlaw mixed relationships?

[edit on 16-4-2008 by greeneyedleo]

[edit on 16-4-2008 by greeneyedleo]

I can't believe that this day in age there are still people that think homosexuality is a sin or is wrong. You are attracted to what you are attracted to. There is nothing wrong or right about it. It's natural

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
reply to post by Frontkjemper

 

The arugment "you need a mom and dad" STILL holds no water. It is not a sound argument.

If it did, then every single kid that came from a broken home or their father had died early on or they just never had a father around, would be screwed up.

How many of those kids genetically came from two women or two men?
That is the issue.
If it were about in-vetro or adoption, this would not even be news.

Originally posted by pavlovsdog


No, it doesnt give anyone a get out of jail free card, it simply changed the requirements.

Exactly,, and just out of curiosity,, would "repentance" happen to be part of those requirements?

Just answer Yes or No

The bible doesn't endorse everything it says!

Nope id doesn't and if you have to have that explained to you, then I too would urge you not to debate me till you get a firm grasp of contextual differences such as the bible speaks about slavery, how to treat slaves but does'nt endorse slavery.

Many people try to confuse Christians in this way saying the bible tells people to rape and yatta yatta so you understand now?

Jesus died for the forgiveness of sins thus 'hanging the old covenant on the cross' You continue to argue from the viewpoint of a Messanic Jew but profess to be an evangelical Christian

I haven't professed to be either one and am merely drawing from the law so that the law is made known and that man fell short to prove to man that he couldn't save himself and needed a savior. The sinner is forgiven by that blood ransom which pays the debt for the wages of sin is death. What it doesn't do is take the laws off the books or lower a felony to misdemeanor using the technicality you mention as new "requirements"

These two views are not biblically compatable. I'll be happy to debate you on these issues if you like, but if you remember, I can sling scripture at least as well as you.

I was born at night and it wasn't last night and I sure as hell didn't come down on the last drop of rain. I know when someone slings scripture and when someone uses a post to define what the word abomination means which by the way was the only reason I posted the outside source.

I haven't seen any well slung scripture but if your aim to sling it is better then mine, I suggest your aim is like shooting an arrow at the side of a barn and painting a target around it. So far, from what I've seen and with all due respect, what you have shown as being at least as good as me isn't a pimple on my Biblical butt.

That's saying a lot for someone who rarely uses scripture in arguments with most here. The best on these boards would also suggest that if you wanted to debate me on Scripture of the KJ Bible,, they would advise you by saying,,

DON'T.

There you go again, using one of the 663 Talmudic Laws that were laid aside when Christ died. Forget the Aboniminations - it's not an argument you can win.

Oh you got that right and that is JUST what the lord will say to the practicing homosexual after he dies about his sex sin, including the adultery fornication added on to it. Then we will see Gay Guy saying, BUT Jesus, pavlovsdog said that you changed the requirements and all I had to do is say lord lord and continue living my life as an actively gay sinner totally immersed debauchery, depravity and promiscuity, When we know it was the other God he worshipped, the one Satan came as, in the form of sex.

I think your gay guy just lost the argument.

and so do you.

OHHH, so now you want people to assume things and interpret the bible themselves. I thought that was taboo. The Bible being the unerring holy word of God and all.

Thought you had me there did ya lol. After the explantion I gave above I think you will agree that the Bible can be the unerring word of God and not endorse everything it says.

- Con

reply to post by Clearskies


I know what the story is about, I have already commented on it.

Im responding to people's arguments on "must have father/mother"

reply to post by Conspiriology


I'd love to respond to your ugly words Con, but I really don't want to battle with you in the same way we are in the Kerns thread. Perhaps I will create a new thread and invite you for some "fruitfull" Bible throwing discussion? As I am well-equiped to the task This isn't the thread for Bible talk, nor you're extremely disturbing hatefull evangelica decree.



[edit on 113030p://16u50 by Lucid Lunacy]

Boy Oh Boy I see the hate mongers are out in this thread!
Ignorants is so blist, especially when some of you hide behind Christianity.
I beleive some gay parents will make darn good parents for straight children I think a lot of Straight parents have FAILED as parents.
I should know because my Parents faild miserably.
I havent seen them in over 30 years, and could care less what happend to them.
With the daily thrashing, and mind games, and being deprived of food, and water, and lock out of the house all the time.
Not to mention I didnt bond with either parents.
Both parents made it very clear to me they didnt love me.
NO CHILD DESERVES THIS!
I would have welcome gay perents if I had the chance to.
I dont think any of you know what its like to be raised where there is no love.
LOVE IS THE ANSWER TO EVERYTHING!

I saw this thread and raised an eyebrow.
Read the First couple of posts, both eyebrows (and blood pressure) went up.
Then I started giggling like a schoolgirl. I got to read an interesting article and add a whole swath of people to my ignore list (weren't worth replying to, and based on the posts, I would be much happier never seeing any of their words again).

The thought crossed my mind though: What about the Chimera embryos? What if they merged a gay animal with a gay human? Which biblical abomination would that be? (Would it involve the one about working a field with an Ox and a Bull, perhaps? Would it be made worse by the human not having a golden altar dedicated as per the old testament? Hmm)

Furthermore, I've never really wanted a kid, but reading this thread changed my mind.


The Titor Experience, Lucid Lunacy and Marg6043: I think we could make beautiful babies together.. Wanna hit the lab?

reply to post by cashlink


That's HORRIBLE!

I have THREE boys and I could not imagine(even if I was on drugs) locking them out or starving and hating them!
Despicable!
Our Dad just gave us up. (After he tried to kill our mother)

But, as sorry as he was, I came from a man AND a woman.
That's my oft-ignored point.
Is cloning good for children?







[edit on 16-4-2008 by Clearskies]

Damn, homosexuality is a hot topic.
171 posts already. Even at the enlightened ATS, where the citizens here are above the mainstream, all you gotta do is mention f@gs and the fish start biting, lmao.

Why in the hell do this when there are MILLIONS of kids that need adoption. Sex is something you do. not the way you live. Can we not use science for something better? There are too many people out there as it is...All we need is another breed

BTW I dont agree being gay is a good thing, I am not a gay basher....but two men kissing makes me honest to god ill....I gag...So please keep it on the other side of yer door my funky pink friends.

[edit on 16-4-2008 by TXMACHINEGUNDLR]