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Originally posted by driveshaft08
reply to post by danx
Biggest Bush Lies
George Bush lies
George Bush Big Lies
9/11 lies, War on Terror & Torture
Iraq
Domestic Spy Program
Iran
Katrina
Domestic Policy
Originally posted by Johnmike
This is idiotic. Not perfect, certainly. Bad? Even maybe. But the worst? Absolutely not! Nearly everything wrong with Bush has been repeated before, at the very least by Franklin Roosevelt, also known as the man who finally tore the constitution to shreds.
Unfortunately I am human and I don't agree with your thoughts.
You have been attacked? Personally attacked? I understand if personally you have been attacked physically or anyone you know. This mentality of being "attacked" by other countries to me, sounds very out of this world.
Originally posted by The Nighthawk
Excuse me?
Originally posted by The Nighthawk
The same Franklin Roosevelt who put America to work building the infrastructure we enjoy today, thus pulling us out of the Great Depression?
Originally posted by The Nighthawk
The same Roosevelt who essentially created the Middle Class most of us likely grew up in?
Originally posted by The Nighthawk
The same Roosevelt who sought to keep military contractors from profiteering during WW2?
Originally posted by The Nighthawk
The same Roosevelt who ensured the retirement and health care of millions of Americans who otherwise would never have been able to fend for themselves upon reaching old age or becoming disabled?
Originally posted by The Nighthawk
That Roosevelt?
Originally posted by The Nighthawk
Seems to me you're a Neo-Con (Artist) looking for excuses to bolster a failed "conservative" political philosophy that thus far has only brought pain and suffering to Americans and the world.
Originally posted by The Nighthawk
"Conservatives" have hated Roosevelt for decades and now that they've succeeded in (mostly) rolling back the New Deal, the common man is starting to realize just how important the New Deal was in making this nation truly great.
Originally posted by The Nighthawk
Some of his wartime policies notwithstanding, I consider Roosevelt something of a Champion of the Everyday American.
Originally posted by The Nighthawk
He understood that unrestrained capitalism results in only one thing: a handful of mega-rich "aristocrats", and a huge nation of slaves in poverty.
Originally posted by The Nighthawk
He sought to correct that, and "Conservatives" have hated him for it ever since. Sadly, many "common" Americans continue to believe the lies of the "Conservatives" and vote based on pointless wedge issues against their own economic best interests.
Originally posted by logictruth
well the only thing i can agree with is that the economy is bad but not in a recession.
the war is successful, so far iraq has been freed from a tyrant.
i dont want to get into the torture issue.
ok Katrina CAN NOT BE BLAMED ON BUSH!!!
the local and state govt did not do anything to evacuate citizens. the state govt didnt do s**t to prevent the levees from breaking. blame the local and state govt not bush.
Originally posted by The Nighthawk
Ever heard of FEMA? Do you have any idea what their job actually is? The state and local governments shouldn't have had to ask for help. That's why FEMA exists, to be at the ready when disasters too large for the state and local government to handle happen. FEMA failed, and still fails today, because Bush appointed incompetent cronies to run it and cut its funding to ensure it couldn't work as designed. Bush's fault.
Originally posted by Johnmike
This is actually a common misconception, for some reason, I think. That Franklin Roosevelt did not by any means pull out out of the Great Depression. He actually worsened it in a way only seen by fascist Italy in the same time period (well, Hoover started it, Roosevelt continued). It wasn't good at all.
I don't think anything he did was even intended to create a middle class. It was intended (supposedly -- it didn't work) to help the poor with "prime the pump" corporatist/socialist economics. But it didn't do that. Many of his programs (TVA for example) actually put people out of work due to private enterprise's inability to compete with the endless pockets of the government.
I can tell you right away that I know nothing of Roosevelt doing so. I never really looked for that, feel free to explain.
Social security, a forced retirement fund? You're taxed the money, and then you beg the government to give you some later on. Do you have any clue what percent -- growing percent -- of the national budget goes to social security alone? This is money you could be investing, using as you need, but you are forced to give Uncle Sam your hard earned money so that you can, at the state's mercy, maybe get it back when you're around 65.
It's costing us a fortune, both the government and us, in money we can invest or spend on, you know, food. My mother's FICA tax is actually more than her income tax, it's sick.
If you edit out that idiotic "Neo-Con" label I'll erase it and this from this response.
I was taught to believe in socialism, in all those beautiful economic philosophies of hope and equality and all those warm, fuzzy things. But as I read, I learned, I discovered how economics works, and realized just how impossible it is to run an effective centrally-planned economy. I'd be all for it if it worked, but it results in nothing but increased poverty, decreased efficiency, and a reliance on the welfare state.
I think it's just recently that people have realized what a failure they were. Nothing in the New Deal did a thing to help us economically, all he tried to do was mold us after fascist Italy. Read about economics from less biased sources, you'll see just how destructive this man was.
The Japanese-American citizens who were sent to concentration camps would disagree with you.
But hey, the everyday American, right? Populist democracy, surrender of individual liberties to the majority? The mob? Maybe you might be right.
I can understand that the sky is green, that the world is flat, and that the sun goes around the Earth, but it'll still make me an ignorant moron.
I guess I can call myself "conservative," though not in the way that's been hijacked by the new, neo-conservative Republicans since the 90's.
But my political and economic beliefs stem from research regarding policy and its effects, not some dogmatic principle.
Originally posted by burdman30ott6
About this torture argument. If torturing a terrorist or supporter of enemies of this nation leads to information that can prevent even one attack from happening as planned on US soil, then waterboard away!
I find it fascinating that Saddam Hussein could break virtually every international law pertaining to torture, and I'm talking serious torture here... starvation, chemical testing, breaking bones one by one over a long period until death, executing/raping/beating family members while you're tied up and forced to watch... not nonsense like the human butt pyramid or waterboarding/toilet swirllies, and the same people who cry the loudest about how we're supposedly "torturing" hostiles in Gitmo and Bush should be tried as a war criminal are the same ones that question what right we had to forcibly remove Saddam Hussein from power in a "sovern" nation.
Your logic is flawed, to put it in the kindest terms I can generate.