Meltdown of U.S. Dollar Underway as China Dumps the Currency

reply to post by Rockpuck


China will take over America at some point, it will make a huge political impact on America. I cannot see the US starting a war to remain number one, regardless of what people say, I do not think a future government would risk it.

Honestly, NAFTA will play a huge role and majority of US citizens may start warming towards a North America Union if the super power role is going to be passed on. I can even see a NAFTA-EU super free trade zone (McCain has been talking about the idea and the EU too), maybe this is how Europe and North America will tackle China.

In order to deal and give strong competition to China, the West will have to consider a free trading pact. As you correctly said, we are 20 years away from the largest middle class being born.

Free trade may be the solution.

reply to post by infinite


Free trade among Western nations to "beat" an Eastern nation(s) will.. not work. At all..

Because the SECOND fastest growing middle class in the world.. is India. And India is by no means a friend of the Western world, sure, they may be a Democracy, but they don't like our policies. The only good thing is India is not exactly China's friend either..

But in the end, manufacturing will move out of China eventually, already Africa and South America are being used by China to bring in resources and imported products.. where America cannot even make Central America our friend, all all warming to China very fast. Africa even faster..

IMO, before it even gets to the point where China's consuming power overtakes the Western world, a major war would break out over resources.. China cannot have an ever expanding economy and consuming population, while keeping pace with the Western worlds continued need for resources from metals, like steel and gold, to food and oil...... even water..

But assuming that China gets to this point without breaking because of maxed out strain on resources.. we may make a trade pact with all Western nations.. but in the end its China we will be trading with. They are already in a situation where China can impact our economies with the flick of a pen.. imagine at the height of their power, do we REALLY want a trade war with them?

I see war as the only alternative, and if the situation in America is bad enough, all it takes is a charismatic leader to consolidate anger and bitterness toward China to launch an aggressive war against them.

If history tells us anything, its that a charismatic speaker in dire times can take the most civilized man and turn him into a savage beast.

reply to post by Karlhungis

Devalueing the dollar will make all things imported cost more.This in turn will make manufacture of domestic goods more profitable.It will be painful for a time but adding jobs and supporting domestic trade will be a good thing.
This may help derail NAFTA.

reply to post by Rockpuck


I'm not sure risking a nuclear war is worth the West stopping Chinese economic growth. I mean, Japan wants to create a super 16 Asian nation free trade pact; which would include China, India, Korea and even potentially Australia and New Zealand.

Correct me if I am wrong, but that would be larger than NAFTA and the European Union.

Britain fought two global wars to remain in power, and look what happened? national debt from the wars and overall debt caused Britain to rapidly declined as the superpower. The economy nearly collapsed in the 1970s. If the petroDollar was to stop (Oil nations switch to Euro's), we are talking a massive collapse in the Dollar and potential hyperinflation because the American currency will become worthless.

Is it really worth it?

Sadly, Rockpuck, we are going to see trade wars with China either way. We could ease the pain and force China to become democratic, which would make them a much better superpower. But what are the chances of that? The Chinese are happy to trade democracy with large dispoable incomes. But maybe the growing middle class will want power soon.

We can only hope.

reply to post by infinite

I'm not sure risking a nuclear war is worth the West stopping Chinese economic growth. I mean, Japan wants to create a super 16 Asian nation free trade pact; which would include China, India, Korea and even potentially Australia and New Zealand.

Actually I am thinking right along the same lines that many think may happen to China anyways.. sacrifice their economy on a large scale to destroy the American economy, then sort of "reboot".. the damage on America would, hypothetically because of our global stance and massive investments.. it would be far worse for us, automatically making China #1.

In the same way, America goes to war with China.. and destroy's the Chinese economy, civil war and revolution in China take care of the rest.. nuclear exchanges between rational nations won't happen, even on China's deathbed, the launching of a nuke is assured mutual destruction .. and, hypothetically again, America is strong enough and technical enough to dismantle their nuclear capabilities before their reasoning deteriorated to the point they might use them..

It either attack them, or risk them being the next USSR .. we have seen China as an emerging economic power, but with that comes military power. Now they are weak, but for how long?

I say cut the legs from under them.

Britain fought two global wars to remain in power, and look what happened?

You are now arguably the worlds second strongest country? .. if America willingly lets China take its place as world super power, or even shares its spotlight, it will be the cold war all over again.. how long can the world build tension before an explosion?

If we attack them, it will set them back decades, all the while keeping the pool of cheap labor open as it has been.. keeping China dysfunctional internally is the best possible relationship we can have with them.

Is it really worth it?

In the short term: War, mass death and destruction.. bad.

Long term: Population control as wars are a healthy process of Humanity and China is kept at bay..

IMO, America should have crushed the USSR directly after WWII, within 5 years we should have dismantled the entire political structure, killed Stalin and moved on. Russia would probably be better off then its current situation, as well as most of those who lived under the Iron curtain..

I believe the same stance with China, it will ensure American superiority, and with it the superiority of the Western people over the Eastern people..

Sadly, Rockpuck, we are going to see trade wars with China either way. We could ease the pain and force China to become democratic, which would make them a much better superpower

I agree, either way we will see trade wars, unless we follow my method and just do war.. but China being a democracy or a despotism government matters not to me.. they are all the same bastards under different titles..

Rockpuck, I think there are many in the government think the same thing you do right now.

Face the facts:

China is the largest nation in the world.

It is really strange that a nation with so many people could become the number one super power BUT

If they do...

The rest of the world will WORK ONLY for China!
The rest of the world will be worse off than Chinas lowest wage workers.

-----------------

China holds much of the US debt b/c they sell us so much junk. The fact is they know our dollar is a fraud and they know all about our central bank conspiracies.

.. So why would they not dump the dollar now? Like ForestLady put it "Like any well-run business, China is looking to cut its losses when it becomes increasingly apparent that the debtor will not be able to pay the debt.

Sure it would deflate the dollar more... but how would this affect them?

They would have to sell their junk somewhere else, thats how.

Maybe they realize now that our dollar is so worthless in the world market that they are LITERALLY GIVING US THE JUNK THEY "SELL" US!

Thats right folks it's time to wake up. If our country is in debt then SOMEONE tell me how the dollar has ANY REAL VALUE?!

Please someone tell me how the dollar is even worth 2cents on the world market.

All I can say is boycott the world market and I agree with Rockpuck, if they dump the dollar, then its time for action.

reply to post by Techsnow


The dollar is worth something because all the world's currencies are fiat currencies based on "faith" that they can be turned in for products / or services..

It devalues when less and less people take them, people "loose faith" and the dollar deteriorates..

No major currency in the world is backed by a metallic substance, or any substance for that matter.....

Even China's currency is Fiat..

If we went by Gold, The US, Germany and the IMF have the largest holdings of Gold..

But if we went by the Gold Standard, South Africa holds 40% of the worlds gold....... underground.

If you don't like Fiat currencies, be prepared for war. We will be back 150 years when nations went to war for wealth -- gold.

I still support the Gold standard though.

This is all rhetoric imho. We have been in a heated push shove match with China for over a year now. Anyone remember all the chinese made toys products being recalled? Chinese have always refused to balance our export/Import discrepancy. We give the Dali Lama the highest US award. Chinese shoots a old satellite out of orbit to show americans that China can "get you." Americans recall more products. China flaunts its extravagant preparation for the Olympics. THE TIBET SITUATION. Rumors of US and US Allies boycotting Olympics. Olympic committee says, "Beijing Games in Jeopardy."

What can China do now? Threaten to change from the dollar, something that will cost them much more than what the dollar has cost them.

Don't forget that CHINA needs USA to continue importing their products, which help keep China's growing economy stable.

China needs USA as much as USA needs China. They both know it, so they have resorted to playing games.

AAC

We need to have hard money and fire the FED. This would do the following

Save us a hell of a lot of interest payments to these banks we borrow from.

Income tax would be eliminated because the government could print money based on the gold we have.

Limit government spending read above.

Inflation would be minimal if it was gold backed right now the oil prices would make no difference because gold has kept up with oil.

I mean I could go on and on on how going to a gold and silver backed currency would saves us a lot of money and headaches. Rock I do feel the war part makes no difference we fight many wars now as is because of the currency we have.

China and other countried keep in mind Saudi Arabia and other arab nations hold a lot of our debt too. As of 2007 2.3 trillon of our debt is held by foreign nations. 5.8 trillion held by our own federal reserve.

Originally posted by infinite

China will take over America at some point, it will make a huge political impact on America. I cannot see the US starting a war to remain number one, regardless of what people say, I do not think a future government would risk it.

China needed the USA for a long time, now they don't.

Sorry China we can't pay our debt, go pi$$ up a rope we are bankrupt, collect from our politicians that sold us out. The US citizens will pay you nothing.



[edit on 15-4-2008 by Realtruth]

At least all the money I own on credit cards is in actuality a lot less than what it was.

Too bad my paychecks are correspondingly worthless.

America can't have their cake and it eat too.
Everyone has the Wal Mart mentality,or so it seems.
The super consumerists want to buy things but they don't want to pay a good dollar for a good product.
Companies respond to this by out sourcing.Americans lose jobs BUT they get products for a reduced cost.
Why buy a toaster for $40 that will last ten years when you can buy one EVERY year for $6.00? Yep, do the math on just this one item.
As much as I dislike China for their human rights issues, I can't dislike them for playing in the capitalist world.
China has silently crept in and fed the masses with their junk.......and continue to do well.
IF China drops the dollar,then it's because it makes sense from a "cutting your losses" perspective.

I see war as the only alternative, and if the situation in America is bad enough, all it takes is a charismatic leader to consolidate anger and bitterness toward China to launch an aggressive war against them.

Why on God's green Earth does this seem to be the answer to every problem the U.S. runs in to?What the hell did China do to provoke a war?Oh,they sold you cheap crap and people line up to buy it.
America's penchant for keeping up with the Jones' will be it's downfall.........and it's apparent thirst to be number one.
I had a longer reply to this thread but the portion I quoted has me seeing red.

Edited for a typo


[edit on 15-4-2008 by citizen truth]

This event with China was planned.(if it is true) I haven't been able to find it reported on other sites yet, so here's hope'in that it isn't true. I actually started a thread about this a few months ago. I now believe that this is there method of bring in the Amero, if i were the Chinese i'd think that would be a good investment.


www.abovetopsecret.com...



[edit on 11/13/07 by Spaxz]

Originally posted by particalman86
Or how about brining back all of the industries that, our governement let go to china or mexico. We don't need material possesions to be happy, so if you could deal with being broke for a few years while Industry gets re-established I think it is something good to get behind.

Sorry, but thats impossible. Thanks to environmentalists, those industries are not allowed back here. See, this is a point no one ever talks about. Why did we move these industries over seas? they are not allowed to operate here. We are not allowed to pollute our air, our rivers or anything near a school. China, India, the Balkans and Eastern Europe openly welcomed these industries, because they do have such environmental laws. True it is also a boon, as its cheaper labor. A plus for our environment, and nice for the profits of our corporations.

You want them to bring the jobs back??? Start relaxing the environmental laws.
Otherwise, stop complaining and keep enjoying those goods you rail against.


*edited for spelling**

[edit on 15-4-2008 by traderonwallst]

reply to post by infinite


Everyone is talking about a ar with China....Its not going to happen, but something you need to know is the War Against America has been ongoing for some time now.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


I also believe the longer we allow the EURO to trade at such elevated levels, the better chance we have of winning the war. We could even see the EURO begin to be uncoupled in certain countries.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Has anyone realized whats going on in the countries of Europe? Some of the countries are in big trouble thanks to the value of the Euro. Countries with good economies such as Germany, Italy and Spain are seeing all kinds of inflationary pressures due to the value of the Euro. They are realizing that the goods they produce are harder and harder to sell.....or compete against those goods made in China and, thats right, in the USA. 2 Countries that can export at lower prices. 1 because of the the declining value of their currency and the other due the fact that it costs next to nothing to use slave labor.

This is going to be a huge problem going forward if the value of the Euro does not begin to decline, for countries like this. Before you know we will begin to hear calls of dumping the Euro in Germany and returning to the Deutsch Mark, or the Italian Lire in Italy or the Franc in France.

Could the US secretly be plotting such an event? I actually don't our government that much credit, but if the word gets out that the countries of Europe are unhappy with the Euro, I don't see the US trying to change things by buying back the dollar.

Stop whining and crying and freaking out. China can't do a thing. They have virtually no economic options to do anything to the US.

China is highly dependent for its economic well-being on exports to the United States and other countries. If they start drawing money out of U.S. financial markets, that would require China to put it somewhere else.

If the Chinese invested in Europe, European interest rates would go down and U.S. rates would go up, and European money would pour into the United States.

The Chinese are trapped economically.

Since you are part of North America I am assuming you are speaking of yourself as well.

People in general no matter where in the world they live want cheap goods, this is not about keeping up with the Jones as you say, but trying to get the most for their dollars. I would say this is fiscally responsible.

Now, on the other hand when you have corporations praying on the feeble minded masses, that watch tons of TV, and are brainwashed into needing more than they can afford and things they don't need, now you have a problem.

Our school systems in the USA teach almost nothing about financial responsibility, but yet a gullible college grad will rack up tens of thousands of debt because that is what everyone else it doing.

It's time to start thinking.

What do I really need? Do I really need this new widget?

Instead of what do I want? Why do I want this? Can I really afford it? Am I in debt already?

Originally posted by citizen truth
America can't have their cake and it eat too.
Everyone has the Wal Mart mentality,or so it seems.
The super consumerists want to buy things but they don't want to pay a good dollar for a good product.

You never know what the other players are thinking, but I agree it makes no sense for China to devalue the dollar further by announcing this before they go to dump it.


Could be reverse psychology to kick the US a little over the Olympics debacle, and maybe a setup to preparitory for buying into our dollar yet further, at a considerable discount. It would also be like the carrot after the stick, once we comply with the Olympics, and shut up about Tibet.

Its actually very simple- it always is:

China is dumping the U.S. dollar because they know we are going to dump them with debt when we change to the Amero!

Oooops! This is what we get when we depend on a private industry to print money that is not worth the paper it is written on.

Yet another reason to weep for the trees

Originally posted by Brain Damaged
i say that we just nuke them. let's get it over with. a nice mushroom field over there, and we can watch all that lead paint and tainted food products go up in radioactive fire. they dump the dollar and we dump our nukes. now that's what i call free trade.

Some trade