VIDEO: Ex-Illuminati Leo Zagami on Jesuits, Zionists & Masons

Originally posted by Quazga
As long as there are Secret Societies, there will be people who make up all sorts of laughable conspiracies about them.

Not that I claim that you are one, but this looks to me the answer a member of such a Secret Society him/herself would say.

Originally posted by Quazga

Originally posted by Creo Coactum
I would like you to ask you, have you been inside a Masonic Logde anywhere in the world? And how do you know that there is no satanic worship?

Because there isn't any.

Originally posted by Quazga
There is fellowship, education, and enlightenment, yet not one mention of Satan anywhere.

Originally posted by Quazga
Although I'm at a loss as to why you believe secret societies are morally or ethically wrong.

Looking to those remarks you make here, it is quite clear to me that you imply that you are personally very familiar and well informed with all the Secret Societies on this world.
And if all those Secret Societies as you claim are so full of fellowship, education, and enlightenment, why are they so Secret then?
Especially the word Secret means to me that those Secret Societies have something to hide for the outside, because it is in my opinion absolute not necessary to hide things that are morally or ethically right, but only things that are morally or ethically wrong.


[edit on 13/4/08 by spacevisitor]

Leo Zagammi, and people like him, had scrambled eggs for brains.

Conspiracy nuts will find a conspiracy in anything. Three babies getting together must be conspiring to cover the world in spit-up.

Yep, those nasty Jesuits are at it again. They have been blamed for virtually everything in the world at one time or another.

The funny thing is, they are responsible for stopping ignorance. Their primary purpose in life is to educate others, and they do that by exposing them to world literature, history, philosophy and requiring that all of their students actually learn to think for themselves.

Too bad the person that posted this crap never learned to think at all. He is just a lemming, following another fool around.

Originally posted by OldMedic
Leo Zagammi, and people like him, had scrambled eggs for brains.

Conspiracy nuts will find a conspiracy in anything. Three babies getting together must be conspiring to cover the world in spit-up.

Yep, those nasty Jesuits are at it again. They have been blamed for virtually everything in the world at one time or another.

The funny thing is, they are responsible for stopping ignorance. Their primary purpose in life is to educate others, and they do that by exposing them to world literature, history, philosophy and requiring that all of their students actually learn to think for themselves.

Too bad the person that posted this crap never learned to think at all. He is just a lemming, following another fool around.

Could you please explain what you mean by the 'Jesuits are responsible for stopping ignorance.'

This would imply that there is no ignorance in the world anymore yet I only have to look to your post to completely shatter that little myth.

Originally posted by cornixman
yet I only have to look to your post to completely shatter that little myth.

As the late Robert Anton Wilson used to say,

"Certitude belongs exclusively to those who only own one encyclopedia"...

Originally posted by NeuronDivide

Originally posted by Quazga
So in the essence of "not side stepping the issue", I ask again, how does criticism of something make it more or less true?

The point is that when people such as yourself, who are so quick to come up with statements of certitude, such as...

This guy is no more an ex-Mason of the 33rd degree than I am the Pope.

without providing any factual evidence to back up why their expert opinion should be considered the absolute truth, does nothing whatsoever to contribute to a balanced discussion.


Can we really say for sure that "Leo Zagami" is (or isn't) telling the truth? It's my opinion that we should attempt to communicate only in e-prime when it comes subject matters such as this...

Are you suggesting that the concept of tongue-in-cheek exclamations should not itself be communicated via the written form? I completely agree that hyperbole has no place in scientific descriptions of what has been interpreted as having been observed during an experiment. However to raise the far fetched "claims" of someone such as Zagami to a level equivalent with scientific discourse is to say nonesense. Please keep in mind that language is created by children, it is not created intentionally. It is an informal process which typically is a creole of a previous pidgin.

Last I checked, this was a forum where ideas can be criticized. As you well know, in scientific circles, ideas are also criticized. The evidence will be heralded if the hypothesis has merit. It stands on it's own and has no need of defense from criticisms such as mine.

So when I state that this man is not an ex 33rd degree Mason, I do so with the personal knowledge that what he speaks of is bunk. Not a knowledge that I am in anyway obliged to share nor, by duty, able to.

Should my statements be taken as asserting anything more than a self certain perspective on the matter? No.

The degree to which my tongue was planted firmly in my cheek when I mentioned being the Pope, should be a hint to any discerning mind that I was highlighting my personal reaction when I read what this man, as well as others have said about things which it is obvious to me they have no knowledge.

Now, can we turn our criticisms back to the outlandish claims so that we can have the ability to DENY IGNORANCE!

Originally posted by spacevisitor

Originally posted by Quazga
As long as there are Secret Societies, there will be people who make up all sorts of laughable conspiracies about them.

Not that I claim that you are one, but this looks to me the answer a member of such a Secret Society him/herself would say.

Originally posted by Quazga

Originally posted by Creo Coactum
I would like you to ask you, have you been inside a Masonic Logde anywhere in the world? And how do you know that there is no satanic worship?

Because there isn't any.

Originally posted by Quazga
There is fellowship, education, and enlightenment, yet not one mention of Satan anywhere.

Originally posted by Quazga
Although I'm at a loss as to why you believe secret societies are morally or ethically wrong.

Looking to those remarks you make here, it is quite clear to me that you imply that you are personally very familiar and well informed with all the Secret Societies on this world.
And if all those Secret Societies as you claim are so full of fellowship, education, and enlightenment, why are they so Secret then?
Especially the word Secret means to me that those Secret Societies have something to hide for the outside, because it is in my opinion absolute not necessary to hide things that are morally or ethically right, but only things that are morally or ethically wrong.


[edit on 13/4/08 by spacevisitor]

Secret Societies are just that because they mirror the process of the individual who becomes aware of that which is hidden in himself and the Universe. The search for such knowledge is a process of discovering, often referred to as "Initiation". For what they are worth, both these secrets, and the process of discovery of them are seen as sacred, and are thus entrusted only to those whom have received them. This also maintains the value of these experiences to those who are receiving them so they can continue to be passed down through the ages. Now very often, pieces of philosophical, scientific of political merit will bubble up out of one of these societies, and when it does, it's only because it's something of value within the world of that time.

Keep in mind, that Jesus ran his group in a very similar manner. I am referring primarily to the passages of why he spoke in parables, as well as the concept of pearls before swine.

Secret Societies, deal with ideas which are important to them, and as such form a fraternity of sorts (often including both fraters and sorrors). And because this information is important only to them, they enjoy the fellowship of sharing it with only those to whom it is also important.


As for immorality; I have a hard time believing an organization which encourages one to always ask questions, keep ones word, and contribute to their community, could ever be seen as being somehow immoral. These are core values of any enlightened society.





[edit on 13-4-2008 by Quazga]

Yes, let's be clear. You didn't mention this as a reason in your last post, you mentioned that you were inclined to believe this story because of the large volume of criticism of it on this board. But since you have listed more details which support your belief in its credibility, let's investigate.

Could you link to these supposed scanned documents?

Also, why do you refer to the OTO as "Crowley's Beast 666 Association" ? Perhaps you are ignorant of the origin of the word Beast as associated with Crowley.

First point, scroll to the bottom of the 'Articles' page and you will find his scanned documents. No doubt you will declare them faked.
Zagami

As for the association of the word Beast with Crowley, I will admit that this is something I casually read but cannot confirm as true.

Crowley - the Beast?

Once again, could you link to these statements as you make them? Otherwise you kinda sound like someone who wants the public just to take him at his word.

Sure man, but you wil have to sit through a video on his website. Go to the 'Current Issues' video and you will hear his connection to his OTO friends long after he changed his faith.
Zagami

Actually it is you who have sidestepped the issue... the issue I raised was that you claimed you believe the story because of the nature of the criticisms leveled at it, especially on ATS boards.

So in the essence of "not side stepping the issue", I ask again, how does criticism of something make it more or less true?

Zagami, in particular seems to have attracted the ire of his former brothers and has generated much scorn and flak in certain threads. Why so much if he is a liar and a fake? This point seemed to suggest that his disclosures were building up fear in the movement in which he was such an ardent follower.

reply to post by Heronumber0


Ok, so I looked at the documents you mentioned. And, I'm not sure why you would think I would jump to the conclusion that they are fake.


However, upon looking at them, I have to say a few things:


1. How do you explain the same "stamps" being on at least two of the documents? ALthough its possible the same office stamped both or all three of these documents, they do appear to be rather "fabricated", and really imply no authenticity.

2. Did you know that the supposed Rosicrucian organization listed here does not carry with it the priveleges conferred upon AMORC by FUDOSI.

3. If these documents are somehow authentic, something jumps out at me. I say he's not of the level he claims, due to my own personal knowledge and how completely far fetched it is from the reality of the knowledge conferred by these degrees. It is also the duty of those who have had it conferred upon them, not to divulge what they have received. This of course does not apply to certificates. But, if he has actually been granted these degrees, and is making up stories about it, then he doesn't really go against his oath of secrecy, but does go against the order not to bring shame upon the name of the orders.

He very well might believe what he says, and does so under his own authority, and by none conferred upon him. It still stands though, that the theories which he perpetuates as being knowledge held by senior members of these orders, is in fact not true.

Now perhaps, the specific lodge he was a member of have somehow deviated from the tradition, and have filled his mind with political conspiracies, but once again, if this is true, it is a fluke.

My point in all of this, is that I stand by my statement not because I am quick to judge, but because of my own personal experiences. I am quick to defend the orders of which I am privileged to belong in cases where untruths are being spoken about them.

I feel sorry for you Quazga, your posts are full of contradictions and blind defence of this cult/religion that you follow. You say that your cult tells you to question everything so why don't you hold them to their word?

Enlightenment is what we are searching for but it is something that we are best standing alone trying to find. Religions and cults just interfere with our own judgement, any group of people will be corrupt but if you are brave enough to stand alone then you know that your own judgement is true.

Be brave Quazga

Quazga, I ask you this question:

The things you've learned as a Secret Society member, are they everyone's truth, or just your own?

Because I will say that the things I've learned about myself are hard enough to put into words, and if anyone were to ask me what they were, I would be hesitant to talk about them because it seems to go against what the experience is all about. There would be definite reasons I could think of to keep quiet about what I know. Somebody said that secret societies went underground in the first place in order to keep from persecution by the church.
Nowadays, I think it's more or less similar, except the "burning at the stake" happens to your reputation, your life's savings and work, your sanity, your freedom.

The masses don't want to know. In fact, the masses can be pretty damn unforgiving if you aren't going along with their crazy illusions. So I can see the "official" reasoning working as a legitimate excuse... except there is one thing I can forsee as a problem reguardless

Secret Societies were born out of fear, and have been in existance for thousands of years. A fear-based secret organization of forward thinking philosophers and scientists is a prime target for those who oppose the enlightenment of mankind, because it poses a large threat, but at the same time, could be very useful if they were to be manipulated into serving the ones they oppose and fear. Since they were based on an easily corrupted, easily manipulated and controlled emotion/thought, it's not so far-fetched to say that they themselves have been corrupted, manipulated, and controlled since early history, shortly after these societies came into being.

I don't believe in secrets, because I think people will adapt to new information, so long as it's fairly given to them. You don't tell someone that they are fat out of what you percieve as politeness, but when they start to get so overweight that it severely affects their health, its time to gently let them know about their problem.

I agree too much info at once can do great harm, but maybe that's not some eletist group of secretive goat worshippers' job to decide what's "too much" or not. I'd rather know about reality first, and THEN deny it, as opposed to the other way around.

reply to post by Heronumber0


Cug, one of our ATS members, is a member of the real OTO, and a while back posted the info which debunks Zagami's claims.

Zagami has never been a Mason, nor a member of the real OTO. He joined a fake OTO group, which sells bogus OTO and Masonic certificates online. If you examine Zagami's patents, you will notice they are all signed by the same guy. No doubt he'll furnish you with the same certificates saying that you're a 33rd degree Mason, Illuminati, and OTO member....for ten bucks a pop.

As for Crowley, he neither sanctioned nor performed any sort of human sacrifice. He used the terminology "human sacrifice" to refer to a specific kind of sex magick. This was done partially as a joke, and partially because the British censors would not allow publications of details of sexual acts....although, hypocritically, they seemed to have no problem with authors talking about human sacrifice, apparently as long as no nudity was involved.

Zagami was kind of making my "wait a minute" alarms go off when I saw the interview he did. I am open to the possibility that he is a part of some group, but the thing is, either way it's like... he didn't say a whole lot that came as a surprise to me, nor did he make me feel like I could fit any pieces together... just another long interview about almost nothing. Project Camelot has its hits and its misses, I guess. They're wandering around in the dark, and probably bei9ng very mislead, just like we are.

I do think the Bejamin Fulford interview was excellent, though.

I think they'd have to do another interview with Zagami in order for me to grasp the vague things he was saying. I thought his personality was woth a million bucks, though. I'd put him in movies.

Originally posted by cornixman
I feel sorry for you Quazga, your posts are full of contradictions and blind defence of this cult/religion that you follow. You say that your cult tells you to question everything so why don't you hold them to their word?

Enlightenment is what we are searching for but it is something that we are best standing alone trying to find. Religions and cults just interfere with our own judgement, any group of people will be corrupt but if you are brave enough to stand alone then you know that your own judgement is true.

Be brave Quazga

You have a very distorted view of what a Secret Society is.

reply to post by NeuronDivide
You are right if you think the Italian is a usurper. Actually, I live in Italy and am aware alot more about what is wrong and right. This guy is all wrong. The whole of Project Camelot is a scare mongering vehicle that presents so called whistle blowers testimonies without any real back up. i am sick of their mad meanderings. The trouble is they are so arrogant with it.