e=mc2 = wrong? Photon mass = 0 yet has energy? Need help Please.

@ finnegan please reread this topic and additional information on wikipedia (for example)

Originally posted by finnegan
Matter which moves at the speed of light becomes energy

no.. mass and energy are equivalent aspects of the same physical thing such as electric and magnetic fields are just experiences from a fundamental electro magnetic field.. (only depending on your frame of reference what you will see)
about 2/3 of the observable rest mass of a proton is just internal binding energy, and thereby the largest part of our own experiencable mass (some dozend kg)

m = the mass you would have if the energy was converted to mass(comes to rest) = E/c^2

no.. it is not the rest mass if you plug in the total energy..
as i already wrote:
E_0 = m_0 c^2
but E = m c^2

so this m is called apparent or relativistic mass and m_0 is the rest mass
and again a photon neither has E_0 nor m_0

E = energy of the photon, which could be anything along a spectrum, from your example E = 4 x 10^-19 kg (m/s)^2
so the mass of this photon would be 4.45 x 10^-36 kg if it came to rest

no.. this is the relativistic mass the photon allways has.. it has not to be "converted" or "halted" to get massive it just has the property of an apparent mass
(and a momentum you can easy see on solar sails *g*)

but i have to admit that photons (and all other energy distributions) also can create really massive particles
for example if you hit an atomic nucleous with a gamma ray over 1022 keV the photon creates an electron and a positron cite

The energy of the bullet can be determined according to its mass at rest, just multiply it by c^2

no
the total energy of a bullet (and all other particles) is just
E = sqrt( m_0^2 c^4 + p^2 c^2)
where p is the momentum the observer sees


[edit on 11-4-2008 by puerk]

[edit on 11-4-2008 by puerk]

OK. how about this... (e=mc2) + "three dimentions"

What about time?

reply to post by aerialview

(e=mc2) + "three dimentions" + " time"

reply to post by aerialview

I promise to never reply to myself again...

e=energy
m=mass
c=speed
2=squared

Actually a Photon has no measurable weight, but you can be sure that each photon is the outer bounds of a universe all of its own. And something that would give you chills. Our universe is just a photon inside another universe. As humans, we can't comprehend this.

Also, food for thought. In-line travel is ancient technology. you will never get anywhere useful before many generations have passed. All future travel will be through dimensions. E=MC2 will be turned on it's ear to realize this potential we all have, but are just now scratching the surface.

Originally posted by eagledriver
Actually a Photon has no measurable weight, but you can be sure that each photon is the outer bounds of a universe all of its own. And something that would give you chills. Our universe is just a photon inside another universe. As humans, we can't comprehend this.

why are you so sure about comprehending knowlege you consider yourself incomprehencible?

reply to post by puerk


here's an approach to the answers you seek. when we were kids we lied. but trouble followed trouble because more lies had to be created to cover previous lies. no, yesterday's supposed 'scientists' were not intentional liers, but they were manipulaters of concepts they'd come to believe, using terms they held true. but let's just look at the idea 'speed of light' for a moment. tje reality is that light neither has speed nor travels. Light IS. LIght is a reality that we tap into from time to time. Here, I say, 'I'm turning on the light." click, I thwor a switch and light apears. You can do the same thing over at your house. What's being done is that the filiment in the light bulb is being vibrated in such a way that lyou can see through it to the light that normally would be sheilded from view by the cold wire.

pr let's try it another way. waves can be propogated through the eather at many different speeds . at some of these speeds and amplitudes we say, "Hey, look, red. Or green. but light is not traveling. waves through a medium are traveling.

the language of then... and to an only slightly lesser extent, now... traps us into thinking inacurately. the ideaof 'energy' is a great example. the supposed 'energy' supposedly released during a thermo nuclear explosio is not release. Rather, that which had been KINKED into a more solid state, which we called 'mass', became unkinked and thus expandned back into it's original form, space. Space is a sort of stuff/non-stuff that is in fact goig so fast it's everywhere at once. And at once it is also a ,ost perfect solid onto-into-via-means galore, waves of nausea, lust, color, physicallity and all the rest are projected. We ARE tron. We ARE in the matrix, we are ALL phantom projections in a huge view tank. And we are once the viewers, actors, producers, directors and audience. Tom Morey

There is another question regarding photons that can be confusing: If a particle has mass, then it responds to a gravity field by moving toward the source of such a field. Black holes are extremely dense objects surrounded by such a strong gravitational field that even light cannot escape the radius of influence. But since light is a part of EMR propagated by photons, which are particles with no mass, light should escape the firm gravitational grip of black holes.

The Photon is an ether entity or effect like magnetism or other
electrical effect.

To spite Tesla, science is all screwy in a effort to make everyone
conform to the Relativists.

I couldn't do it but a little effort in the right direction would explain
everything and make sense.

ED: Maxwell Equations are a law of the universe, Einstein is all theory...
think about it. Toss all the Relativists theories into the do it over heap.



[edit on 9/18/2008 by TeslaandLyne]

I think this incongruity is one of the largest problems that exist in physics.
Obviously either the equation is wrong, or the mass of a photon is wrong.
This may be one of the reasons why scientists have had such a hard time reconciling wave theory with particle theory.

I suspect that the equation is wrong. I wouldn't be surprised if there were no such thing as mass. This is not to say that I propose E=c2.

I'll work on this problem, and get back to you.

Originally posted by stander
Black holes are extremely dense objects surrounded by such a strong gravitational field that even light cannot escape the radius of influence. But since light is a part of EMR propagated by photons, which are particles with no mass, light should escape the firm gravitational grip of black holes.

A very reasonable theory is that the gravitational field of blackholes curves space-time so much that an 'exit' from the blackhole leads right back to an 'entrance'. So light that becomes trapped in the blackhole can never leave.

Why all this confusion and math?

lay down and get a buddy to drop a paint ball on you.

then fire the same paint ball out of a gun.

What hurt or made the biggest mark?

slow or fast it was the same mass just more energy.

But how much mass moving slowly would product the same impact effect?

reply to post by DaRAGE

please see these two new artlces. you will find a new concepts
www.eurojournals.com...
1-Vol.22 No.4 (2008) 584-601
2-Vol.26 No.2 (2009) 161-175

reply to post by DaRAGE

I was looking at this question from the other side. If E=MC2 then if you take energy and slow it down enough, do you get mass? I don't have the math for it but it seems logical. Somebody explain this to me like I've never heard this before and help me see what I am missing. I believe the universe and everything it is energy. I don't think they will ever find the ever elusive higgs boson particle...

Actually Photons are unique.

They at the same time have characteristics of both mass and a wave (energy).

At the same time they have mass and have no mass....I told you they were unique.

Ive been trying to boil down explanations to the essence-on subjects like this. Basically try to rephrase to stay reasonably accurate while explaining to my 70 year old mom. With that in mind fellow nerds-try not to have an embolism. Again I am focusing on a simple explanation which as we all know when broken down to Reducto Ad Absurdum makes no sense. Please try and read the following in a broad sense as intro type statement(s).

1st:
E=MC2 is something that describes how much force or energy is required to get something moving to a certain speed. Since a photon has no mass it means all energy that interacts with it sends it to maximum speed in whatever direction-because it would have no intertia.

2: The speed of going --(This way)--> in a spaceship is determined by the amount of energy or thrust going