Everything Should Be Free!

I have a theory, didn't know where to put it because I couldn't find a forum specifically for theories... Which would be cool, theories and predictions?

Anyway, I had this idea... You know how money really sucks? How it basically causes most of todays problems between people and for people?

Would we have the same problems we have today like depression if we didn't need money?

Someone with a nice car can't have one because other less fortunate people get jealous, so they either hate the person, mess up the car or whatever...I been like this so I know... Money is what causes problems between man and woman, couples or married and don't forget friends! Lend money to a friend probably best to just forget about it and if they pay you back be happy... I mean everything depends on the mighty dollar or euro or whatever... Every aspect of our lives is determined on whether we have enough money to support what it is we want to do and still survive with a roof over out heads... Even now having a roof over your head is getting harder to do...

So I figured, why not make everything for free... ? Everyone makes everything and provides services and everyone gets whatever they want for free... As far as material items that is... All the if, and's and but's still need to be answered, but I'm sure with all the bright ones on ATS we can come up with something to add on how this just might work!

If everyone had what they wanted there wouldn't be any reason to be jealous or stressed or envious... Nobody would have the urge to smash peoples faces because everyone would be equal in the sense that, what you have I can have yet I choose this... The world could be a place of joy and compliments in stead of hate and insults... At any rate with a few tweaks and some other ideas I'm sure something like this could happen... We could then eliminate what it is that hurts us the most... Money...

I know it's hard to think of even doing such a thing, but nobody owns earth, earth was a gift from God and on earth we are free to use the resources, to gather what we need to live and survive... Like Tesla believed with power and energy being free, I believe everything material should be free! Every resource should be free and money shouldn't play any role in our lives... We should have the will power to help the common man... Pay it forward, I know the movie is sorta cheesy or for those who think it was a really good movie ok, but the message mainly if 1 person did good for 3 and those 3 for 3 etc. except do that and provide... I provide, you provide and on down the line.. The only thing, the only entities in this world that tell us otherwise, and they go against God by doing this, are the world governments, the UN etc.

We have the capacity to provide everything to everyone on earth for free... You could trade, or you could just go down to the store and get yourself the same thing for free...

Then legalize every drug known to man... I know this sounds bad, but hear me out... Those who choose to use, most likely will die, but the point being we can help them not use for free, we can eliminate the urge to steal or kill or whatever for drugs because they'd be free... Like people urge people to quit smoking yet you have the right to smoke, same thing only with drugs... If they can get what they want when they want it there is no need to do something bad to obtain the drug... Obviously this is only with some drugs, but still, would take care of a lot of problems...

Overall we would need someone to work in positions like we do now, but ultimately with school free and the ability for everyone to study whenever they want and through the growth of technology things would just get easier... Just think of it, a world with no stress, a world with no limitations or worries a world that helps everyone to be the best they can be...

ATS, come up with some ideas that might help this sort of thing become reality... I know there are a lot of things that will need to be addressed and I sure don't have all the answers... I'm just throwing this out there for you guys and gals to grab... Add to it if you have any good ideas on how this could work without complete utter chaos...

I did a thread exactly like this a while ago. (I cannot find it in a search) and i got a few replies. It seems we think the same way although there were a few people with arguments against it

I think one main flaw is that the people in power now want to continue the way that it is going. They want the haves and the have not's. They will fight to the end to ensure that they are not put on equal ground with everyone else in the world.

Also, it would take a fairly large population reduction for every man woman and child in the world to have everything that they want. There simply aren't enough resources. There would need to be a massive reduction for everyone in the world to simply live a "middle class" American lifestyle.

The system is broken and there are too many people to do what you want. For everyone to be "equal" as you suggest, would take essentially a One World, communist government. Everyone would be poor, but equally poor.

A good book on the topic, which isn't as negative as I am, is called "The End of Work". I reccomend it, it is a very good analasys of how technology and industry will eventually eliminate the need for human work which will fundamentally change society. It can either be a utopia or a dystopia depending on how things work out, but I am leaning towards dystopia right now.

www.amazon.com...

Firstly making everything free would put a lot of people out of employment. For example, there are hundreds of different job types which revolve around money, making them all unemployed would be a drastic cutback. What would they fo after? What about those already unemployed? What about those incapable of work?

If I was a heart surgeon, why should I put up with such a stressful job with the same benefits that a street cleaner would get? You'd create a brain drain where everyone wanted the easiest job and to be able to drive around in new ferraris!

In my eyes, money and trade is what got us where we are today as a democratic, fair society.

[edit on 8-4-2008 by Knights]

Maybe a better idea would be, make everything cheaper. If everything is much cheaper is would be so easy. If we only make "some" things cheaper they would lose out because of all the more expensive things. But if we make everything cheaper, we can all live like kings, as long as we work.

Of course there is probably a huge flaw in this, I haven't really thought it through at all.


[edit on 8-4-2008 by _Phoenix_]

channel.nationalgeographic.com...

This special will show just how much is needed to maintain an average American lifestlyle. Now imagine a luxurious lifestyle and apply it to 6.5 billion people.

[edit on 8-4-2008 by Karlhungis]

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
Maybe a better idea would be, make everything cheaper. If everything is much cheaper is would be so easy. If we only make "some" things cheaper they would lose out because of all the more expensive things. But if we make everything cheaper, we can all live like kings, as long as we work.
[edit on 8-4-2008 by _Phoenix_]

Making everything cheaper may sound idealistic but it's easier said than done. You would have to reduce everything worldwide, all services and take a massive pay cut from your salary. So you would be in a similar position to where you are now.

Companies will still need to make profits but will suffer if their profits are cut to offer a cheaper service or product. They will then take the next best step and reduce the salaries of workers in accordance to the deflation in the market and thus you will be almost where you started off. Cheaper products but less money to spend on them!

reply to post by Knights


Ah yes of course. It's so obvious lol. I guess the best thing we can do is learn how to do stuff ourselves. If more people knew how to grow their own food, build their own stuff etc. They wouldn't have to spend so much money. And therefore we would have more money to spare on those things that we cant make ourselves. Like a tv .

But in these times we don't have the "time" to do these things. Oh well. Money really seems needed until we figure out something better, which may be never.





[edit on 8-4-2008 by _Phoenix_]

You're one of those loveable chums who hopes that 2012 brings the world enlightenment instead of rapture, aren't you? I know how you feel.

I've wanted the same thing you've wanted so bad, it hurts. You cannot believe how spiritually draining work is on me. Every day before work, I sit there for a hour screaming to myself in my head "I DON'T #ING WANNA GO!!! WHEN WILL I WIN THIS? WHEN WILL IT BE ENOUGH!?!? WHEN WILL THE WORLD STOP SUCKING MY PRECIOUS LIFE AWAY FOR TEN PIECES OF PAPER I #ING HATE BUT AM FORCED TO DEPEND ON FOR DEAR #ING LIFE AN HOUR!?!?!?!?"

My job's not even a bad job. I love the people I work with, and I get decent benefits. The work isn't grueling.

I just feel imprisoned by the fact that I have to be there pretty much every day or else I'll get fired.

Every weekend, I'm so happy. Everybody's working for the weekend, ya know? But is that the only reason we work? To get to the weekend? To get to where we're too old and ravaged by the waer and tear on our bodies to even enjoy life fully like we were planning to?

I have to fool myself in order to put on a happy face and go about like this is all perfectly normal, and that becomes a pinch of a bit harder every day.

BUT...........

People are need machines, and the more people there are in this world, the harder you will have to work in order to secure yourself even a menial lot in life. We have been fooled into desiring material goods/money. We're taught from birth into believing that MONEY and STATUS is our lifeblood, and if our lifeblood is threatened, we're taught from birth that this is our one and only chance to get it all and keep it all, so that is why we fight and kill and do very cruel things. We are afraid of dying and not leaving a material legacy behind. This is the problem. It's really a spiritual problem.

The first step towards this money free society is to correct everyone's spiritual journeys. Just come out on national live TV, announce to the world that all religions are fake, all governments are corrupt, there is life after death, and that there will be plenty of chances for EVERYONE to succeed in one form of life or another.

The reason we think we need money and things so much is because we don't think we have enough time to get those things. If we didn't have to worry about dying and that being it, we wouldn't need to rush, need to reproduce, need to buy, need to sell, need to steal, kill, control, manipulate, and lust over people and things so much. We just need to get the message across to everyone that they just need to chill because we've got plenty of infinity to do and have everything. I know existence is sometimes sad and confusing, but we need to comfort each other because THIS IS A ROUGH THING, to be.

Once the majority of the people slow their pace and begin to ease up about just being, then we can convince them to give up their precious money.

We just gotta let everyone know that they are loved and that they may not feel important right now, but we'll guarantee that, without them, all of this couldn't be possible, and that once again, we love them dearly, and when they finally do leave, the peple that mater will remember and miss them dearly.

We're all still that newborn baby that came hopelessly screaming and traumatized into this strange world, and we still need that nurturing, to a point, because we are the same person we were when we were born, just manipulated endlessly until we lose ourselves in what we percieve as everything else. Once you realize that you are still that baby, it's really an emotional moment, and you have infinite compassion for everyone who's helpless and confused and angry and violent, because you remember how you felt not knowing anything or doing anything right. It was just one frustration after another, fumbling through the first few years. Finally, you're used to it... but you're still no smarter than you were when you were a baby.

I bet when we were born, we all asked ourselves the same question we ask ourselves now and every second we are alive. Why am I here?

I dunno about you, but I'm NOT here to be a consumer, an employee, a patriot, a deciple, none of those. I am here because I am, and I'm just trying to get to the next here with a smile on my face.

Why can't we just facilitate each other through this? Why does it have to have a price to get help with existing?

Money makes my mother cry. I don't like things that make my mother cry.

Good topic. Thanks, felt good to type a response.

reply to post by indierockalien


Good post. I feel what you are saying.

I'd like to add this:

With money and the likes, we're always focusing all our attention towards building a better future. Building a better future. Building a better future. Bah bah bah bah bah future. It's all we EVER hear. We've never stopped as a society and said "How about we build a better now?"

Because the future is never here, anyways. It never will be here. It will always be now. You earn money for a future that will never come. You struggle in order to be happy in a spacetime that DOESN'T EXIST!

the future.... rediculous.

reply to post by Karlhungis


Thanks.

I try to put feeling into my writing.... well no I try more to put writing into my feeling. I dunno. It's not really mine anyway. I am just the medium.

Totally off subject, but I have this real bad pet peeve, and it's when artists/poets/musicians refer to THEIR OWN works as 'their art'.

"Oh this is my art. I'm doing my art. Do you like my art?"

I dunno. I'm one of those people who just craps stuff out constantly, so umm it's not art to me. It's a byproduct of feeling spiritually #ed. It's spiritual excrement. It's just what I do in order to be me and stay wanting to be me anymore. If someone else likes it and calls it art, great. Something that spontaneously happened while my hand was moving a certain way caused someone joy. Then it's not my art. It's theirs.

Sorry, that was a tangent.

back to the no more money idea. If you are suggesting we create a plan to initiate this great task of ridding the world of spiritual damnation.........................................

Count me in! Seriously, all this talk about doing something on this website. Maybe we should actually put our totally not money where our mouth is.

No property tax = no need to have a job.

Have your land and drink from it, eat from it, build from it, create from it. But because there is property tax you have to generate money to pay the government it's tithe. You need money to pay the new lord so you need an income. You have an income you pay income tax.

Having no money for anything would only work for those who separate themselves from modern society. Refuse any and all "services" and move far away from any city.

You'd live much like the Amish do without all the religious crap. But even the Amish are required to pay taxes so they do things like operate puppy mills and sell disabled, abused, pets to tourists so they can pay the taxes levied on them by their god government.

Money problems exist because of a dependent population and a governing body eager to exploit that dependence for control. Which came first, dependent people or a ruling government? I don't know. But every time any person expects their public sewer hookup to operate, the police to solve a crime, the fire dept. to extinguish a blaze, the hospital to care for you, the phone internet or electricity to be on, the roads to be paved the bridges not to collapse etc... they are reinforcing their dependence, the power of government and the current system of taxation and share-cropping/feudalism that makes up the current state of life.

Personally I'd like us all to dismantle the cities, tear down the bridges, burn all hospitals and revert back to a people who farmed their own land without any interference from neighbors, banks or governments. That would solve your money problems. Of course those of you who do not like to work now will most likely die should we go back to an independent agricultural/self-sufficient way of life but then there an awful lot of people alive today that wouldn't be if it weren't for the modern system of forced interdependence.

It's been downhill since the Whiskey Rebellion.

I kind of agree with this idea with few added amendments. First I believe the whole economic system was designed as a way to control and track the population at large. Or maybe I should say it is nothing more than a way for the elite to use the masses for labor.

There really is no need for a government or money. People lived for thousands of years without both. We have forgotten what it is like. I think the best alternative is a barter system for goods and services, and a voluntary work force for infa structure. I know most people would ask why someone would want to volunteer. Imagine you have a pot hole on your street, rather than waiting for your local government to fix it. You can just fix it yourself. Another benefit for a voluntary system is it could replace public education. Kids would be able to learn different trades from real life experience. So they will be able to produce skills and products for later on in life.

Imagine what would happen to the politicians and lawyers? They would be out of luck. This type of system would level the playing field for everyone.

That is my two cents.

Peace Trustnobody

Well if you wait a little longer, once Obama becomes Prez everything will be free.

Why stop there?
On a very similar note I think folks like Karlhungis and thesaint should donate some of their massive ATS points to us less fortunate peons.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Have your land and drink from it, eat from it, build from it, create from it.
You'd live much like the Amish do without all the religious crap.

Have to say I completely agree. I would love to be able to live in a self-sufficient manner.

Personally I'd like us all to dismantle the cities, tear down the bridges, burn all hospitals and revert back to a people who farmed their own land without any interference from neighbors, banks or governments. That would solve your money problems. Of course those of you who do not like to work now will most likely die should we go back to an independent agricultural/self-sufficient way of life but then there an awful lot of people alive today that wouldn't be if it weren't for the modern system of forced interdependence.

I can see where you are coming from but have to say I do not agree with the dismantling of cities. There are several self-sufficient communities in the US, perhaps you should look into it if you feel so strongly?
Again, hypothetically if you have children, would you still feel the same way if your child was ill and the treatment for the child was in the hospital you had torn down? What about yourself?

But would it work?

To start with, there'd have to be more than enough stuff to go round. Isn't there? Well, we're forever being told the human race produces more than enough food to feed itself, so let's assume there is and box on. We'll come back to this question later.

Next question: if everyone could help themselves to whatever they wanted, wouldn't some people take more than others? Some people (most people, actually) are just naturally greedy. You can see this even with little babies who haven't yet learnt to talk -- and when they do learn to talk, among the first words they learn are 'mine!' and 'gimme!'

So some folk would end up taking more than they gave. Would others accept this? I don't believe they would. Human beings have an instinct for fairness. Studies have shown that it is built into them. I'll provide references if you like, but you already know this from your own experience. People automatically resent it when they feel cheated in an exchange, even if the transaction has nothing at all to do with money. You spoke of problems between men and women. Many of these problems are caused by one partner feeling they are getting less love, less care, less kindness and emotional support from their partner than they give. Nothing to do with money, but there you go.

Then again, human beings, like all higher social animals, instinctively compete for status, which provides access to more and better resources (food, shelter, territory) and mates. This is the real reason why people envy those who have nicer cars, etc. Nobody needs a flashier, more expensive car than the next guy. The same utilitarian model would do the job for everybody, but very few people are content to leave it at that. An expensive car is a status symbol, and what you really envy is the status, not the car.

So you see, even if we did get rid of money, people would still have plenty of reason to get jealous or stressed or envious, to smash other people's faces and so on. They would just find other things than money to do it over. This is why all experiments in socialism to date have been such dismal failures.

And now let's go back to my first question. Is there enough stuff to go round? Right now, under the system we have, there may well be. But if people were allowed to take as much as they wanted, and had no motivation to go on producing things (why bother, when they could just help themselves from the common pile?), pretty soon there wouldn't be enough stuff to go round. Then the competition and the stress and the fighting and the killing would start all over again. This phenomenon is so universal it actually has a name: it's called the 'tragedy of the commons'.

Eliminating money won't change a thing. Money is just a symbol -- of our desire, our need and our greed. If it didn't exist, we'd invent it (again).

[edit on 8-4-2008 by Astyanax]

Ah, if only this could be true. You see a utopia that so many have tried to create, but none have ever succeeded.

The flaw is in human nature. Look around you. Do you see people happy with what they have, content to simply sit and watch the beauty and majesty of this planet? Or do you see people scurrying around, trying to find a better way for themselves?

Money, those little pieces of colored paper, is not the problem. Should money be outlawed tomorrow, by evening there would still be trade. People would still be looking for that 'bigger better deal' (to quote an old flick). "I'll trade you some eggs for some milk", that kind of thing. We'd simply revert back to the way things were in ancient times, before we could print pretty paper dollars.

Not to mention, so many people would be hard-pressed to find a decent doctor, or lawyer, or engineer, or scientist. These jobs aren't easy to train for. I would feel pity for the poor doctor who had to deal with death and sickness every day, while I was happily washing windows for the exact same 'pay'. Wouldn't you?

The crux of your concept is communism. Not the evil red monster lurking among the mountains of China, but the fairest, most beneficial system of government ever to be devised by mankind... on paper. Every attempt at large-scale communism has failed to achieve its goals of fairness and equity due to that one simple problem - humanity.

I guess it's natural to crave this sort of utopia. After all, we tend to grow up in a communistic environment. My home is communistic. My children don't work and earn money, but they get what they need. My wife doesn't work outside the home, but she gets what she needs. I don't work to prepare the meals, but I eat. We all give what we can and take what we need. Communism. But it works because we love each other. Without that love, without that unselfish giving, it would not even work in a small family.

Now if you can figure out how to get everyone in the world to love everyone else as they do themselves... sign me up. That's what the origins of most religions were trying to do. So far they haven't succeeded either.

TheRedneck

reply to post by ElectricUncleSam


You communist...

No matter what you do, you cannot take away greed from humanity. If everything was free, everyone would still try to one-up each other to see who had more. And while many would be content living a modest lifestyle with just what they need, you can be quite certain that there would be a huge number of people who would take advantage of the system and demand everything - the best of this, the best of that, more more more. Gimme gimme, I want it all, despite if I will use it or not.

My opinion: In theory... great idea. In reality... a disaster. Just how I feel about it.