Whats up with Shakespeare???

i am doing Shakespeare in class right now (hamlet) and it is very boring, was wondering if anyone has info on the following:

i heard somewhere that Shakespeare was not the writer of the plays, that it was someone named Sir Francis Bacon and that it has secret messages within the plays,

i was hoping if anyone knew anything or how to decode these messages, so that it isnt as boring in class

come on

no one has anything on shakespeare???

Clare Asquith, Viscountess Asquith

Remember....google is your best friend...

As well, I don't normally like to offer wikipedia as a source, so after looking over the link, I would follow up on the sources provided and as well do some extrapolative 'googling'.

Do us a favor and post some of your thoughts...

Originally posted by tankthinker
i am doing Shakespeare in class right now (hamlet) and it is very boring, was wondering if anyone has info on the following:

I've read a lot about the various identity theories of Shakespeare. However, unlike you, I like Shakespeare and I like Hamlet. As such, you can do your own research

To quote myself

Who was shakespear? Did 'William Shakespeare' even exist? Or was all the work written by Francis Bacon? Edward De Vere? Sir Walter Raleigh perhaps? this is a long list so I wont go on....look it up

I wouldn't go on too much about Bacons hidden messages until you look at the other suspects as well. I believe Queen Liz 1 has also been suggested.

there's plenty of conjecture and haphazard speculation about Shakespeare's real identity, but the fact is that there's been too much time between now and then and short of finding reliable documentary proof we'll never know.

But come on, Shakespeare is one of the greats in English literature and theatre, have some respect. It's only boring because you're reading a dumbed down version that leaves out a lot of the nuance that makes Shakespeare what it is (I assume at least, you're in public school right?). Sad stuff.


great suggestion guy below me, excellent point

[edit on 8-4-2008 by avingard]

If you're not familiar with the spirit of his work, it can be daunting to read. In fact the majority of Shakespeare's work isn't meant to be read. Besides the sonnets, he wrote plays (hamlet, Midsummer night's dream, King Lear etc..).

Do yourself a favor and go see a play. No joke. Don't tell any of your too-cool friends. Just go and watch his work performed live. If you walk away from that experience without a reaction, check your pulse.

If that's not possible (you might live in Siberia), rent a DVD of "King Lear", with James Earl Jones.

Powerful today as it was then. There's a good reason why his work is still performed today...almost 400 years later.

thnx for the info, i am at a public school btw

also i find that we read the plays and never delve into their meaning, i mean come on you cant teach something and expect that we know what it is.

well anyway thnx again.

also i find that we read the plays and never delve into their meaning, i mean come on you cant teach something and expect that we know what it is.

Let me ask you something, Tankthinker:

have you ever thought about the point of living?
Have you ever heard anyone regretting having been born - or just wondering how would it be if you weren't here at all?

Have you ever thought about suicide, or known anyone who did?
What do you think stops people from committing suicide?




[edit on 8-4-2008 by Vanitas]

have you ever thought about the point of living?

-yes i think about the point of living very much in my free time.

Have you ever heard anyone regretting having been born - or just wondering how would it be if you weren't here at all?

-not really, i am here now thats all that matters

Have you ever thought about suicide, or known anyone who did?

-i have and i realized that it is for people who are too weak to deal with life

What do you think stops people from committing suicide?

-the fear of death i guess

I am very glad you thought about it.

Now see this and see if it speaks to you. :-)

Have you ever thought about suicide, or known anyone who did?

-i have and i realized that it is for people who are too weak to deal with life

To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them?

What do you think stops people from committing suicide?

-the fear of death i guess

To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;

For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;

For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscover'd country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry


You said it.
So did he. :-)

The words may be a bit "old", but the sentiment is not.
(That's what makes him "great".)

Here is something you may find useful:

On the authorship of Shakespeare





[edit on 8-4-2008 by Vanitas]

you dont realize how much you have helped me, for not only have you shown me the better side of Shakespeare,

but you also showed me the way in which i learn best

basically i understand and have much more motivation when i am presented with a challenge of which i must use my cunning, cleverness and intelligence

i never realized this up till now, and i now see why i am so dissatisfied with school, which has never endorsed this kind of teaching

i thank you very much, you have successfully changed my mind, which doesn't happen often

btw im still interested in any theories about Shakespeare, more for fun i guess

That was pretty awesome Vanitas. I stil hate shakespear but that was awesome.

Verily Vanitas, dost thou splendid post!

Things won are done; joy's soul lies in the doing.

Troilus and Cressida, Act 1, Scene 2

[edit on 9-4-2008 by goosdawg]

but you also showed me the way in which i learn best

It's called maieutics.
The old G(r)eeks were good at it.

And I thank YOU for telling me you found it useful.

You're a bright kid; you'll go far. :-)

Thank you very much, Goosedawg and Zealott.
Really: I am surprised AND touched.

reply to post by tankthinker


The best advice here is to watch Hamlet, I saw it on stage five years ago and it completely carried me away (Christopher Eccleston as Hamlet, very powerful stage presence)...but I believe Mel Gibson did a film version, which I haven't seen so can't recommended either way.

The link that MemoryShock provided though is very interesting and if you just wish to think about it differently that may help. The period was one of huge intrigue and can be seen as the origination of organised espionage, there is much mystery around Christopher Marlowe (one of the possibly alledged writers of some of the works attributed to Shakespeare) but I recommend that you start by looking at Francis Walsingham to give you a feel for the times. Walsingham was a genius of subterfuge (and one of my favourite historical personages). It all ties in though, Walsingham, Marlowe, Shakespeare, Bacon, Raleigh and of course, Drake. Brilliant period of history and one well worth taking the effort to emerse yourself in. Hamlet if you can get the feel for it, will help to access the mentality, art of any time is a great window into the minds of the people who lived it.

When I retire I plan to read all the old literature I can. Shakespear invented over four hundred new words to the english language.Very smart individual. King Lear happens to be a good read too
Nothing in life is "boring"
Perhaps it might be that you are the one who is boring, no offence, it takes many years before you can look back, only then can you really look forward.
If you take a real interest in shakespear I am sure you will learn lessons to last a lifetime.

reply to post by Vanitas
I don't suppose it occurred to you that the link you posted as being "useful" is pure Stratfordian propaganda filled with all kinds of lies and distortions. If you going to post a link to a pro-Stratford site, at least label it as such or include a link to an Oxfordian site.

www.shakespearefellowship.org...