Jesus & Lucifer one and the same???

reply to post by jmdewey60


that was after the flood, not before. there was an ante-diluvian civilization called Sumer, which contained the first known city and civilization on the planet. it was called Eridu in sumerian language. Its "god" was named Enki, which means Lord Earth. I consider it to be the equivalent of Cain's city of Enoch.

reply to post by undo


I do not see how the history of what happened before the flood has anything to do with the history of what happened after.
Unless you want to throw out the Bible and say that there was no worldwide flood.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by undo

 

I do not see how the history of what happened before the flood has anything to do with the history of what happened after.
Unless you want to throw out the Bible and say that there was no worldwide flood.

well you were correcting my other post about the first civ, so i was telling you i wasn't referring to the first civ after but before the flood. that's it.

The 'morning star' stands for a title, for example 'I am the Champion' so what is happenning is that Satan in the Old Testament owns earth and he he sees him self as the morning star but in the New Testament Jesus triumphs and becomes the morning star the ruler of the earth in the future to come.

XcLuciFer,

No they are not the same.

But the same thing is happening to you, as what happened to eve in the garden. The serpent is tickling your ears, and since you are too smart to be a tool of religion, I guess you'll never figure out what you are supposed to.

Depending on the scriptures you read and what time period they are from things are different ...

From the gnostic scriptures (some of the oldest in known existence) the story is quite different.

"And our sister Sophia (is) she who came down in innocence in order to rectify her deficiency. Therefore she was called Life, which is the mother of the living, by the foreknowledge of the sovereignty of heaven. And through her they have tasted the perfect Knowledge. I appeared in the form of an eagle on the tree of knowledge, which is the Epinoia from the foreknowledge of the pure light, that I might teach them and awaken them out of the depth of sleep. For they were both in a fallen state, and they recognized their nakedness. The Epinoia appeared to them as a light; she awakened their thinking.

Now the person we erroneously refer to as Lucifer being the "devil" or Satan is known as Yaltabaoth in the gnostic scriptures, and he is the illegitimate son of "GOD's" female counter-part; in other words.. Jesus/Christ is the first begotten son, having the fathers approval and Yaltabaoth was created without GOD's approval, and GOD's female counterpart cast him into ignorance because she was ashamed of him&herself..

Continued from above....

"And when Yaltabaoth noticed that they withdrew from him, he cursed his earth. He found the woman as she was preparing herself for her husband. He was lord over her, though he did not know the mystery which had come to pass through the holy decree. And they were afraid to blame him. And he showed his angels his ignorance which is in him. And he cast them out of paradise and he clothed them in gloomy darkness. And the chief archon saw the virgin who stood by Adam, and that the luminous Epinoia of life had appeared in her. And Yaltabaoth was full of ignorance. And when the foreknowledge of the All noticed (it), she sent some and they snatched life out of Eve.

"And the chief archon seduced her and he begot in her two sons; the first and the second (are) Eloim and Yave. Eloim has a bear-face and Yave has a cat-face. The one is righteous but the other is unrighteous. (Yave is righteous but Eloim is unrighteous.) Yave he set over the fire and the wind, and Eloim he set over the water and the earth. And these he called with the names Cain and Abel with a view to deceive.

"Now up to the present day, sexual intercourse continued due to the chief archon. And he planted sexual desire in her who belongs to Adam. And he produced through intercourse the copies of the bodies, and he inspired them with his counterfeit spirit.

All of this particular text is taken from The Apocryphon Of John.
www.gnosis.org...

Much of the known Christian bible is missing context because that which gives it context has been removed purposely, the God of the bible is actually Yaltabaoth, the one who claims he is the only God and to put none before him... Jesus is not jealous nor is his Father.

When you read the gnostic scriptures you get a much different, more realistic picture of the whole belief system, and it breaths a new life into you by dismissing or correcting a lot of errors in interpretation for those who have read the bible or have had it influence their life at all.

"And the two archons he set over principalities, so that they might rule over the tomb. And when Adam recognized the likeness of his own foreknowledge, he begot the likeness of the son of man. He called him Seth, according to the way of the race in the aeons. Likewise, the mother also sent down her spirit, which is in her likeness and a copy of those who are in the pleroma, for she will prepare a dwelling place for the aeons which will come down. And he made them drink water of forgetfulness, from the chief archon, in order that they might not know from where they came. Thus, the seed remained for a while assisting (him), in order that, when the Spirit comes forth from the holy aeons, he may raise up and heal him from the deficiency, that the whole pleroma may (again) become holy and faultless."

And I said to the savior, "Lord, will all the souls then be brought safely into the pure light?" He answered and said to me, "Great things have arisen in your mind, for it is difficult to explain them to others except to those who are from the immovable race. Those on whom the Spirit of life will descend and (with whom) he will be with the power, they will be saved and become perfect and be worthy of the greatness and be purified in that place from all wickedness and the involvements in evil. Then they have no other care than the incorruption alone, to which they direct their attention from here on, without anger or envy or jealousy or desire and greed of anything. They are not affected by anything except the state of being in the flesh alone, which they bear while looking expectantly for the time when they will be met by the receivers (of the body). Such then are worthy of the imperishable, eternal life and the calling. For they endure everything and bear up under everything, that they may finish the good fight and inherit eternal life."

So in conclusion I would have to say NO they are definitely not the same in the way you are asking, in other ways they are the same, although from different perspectives in that Christ/Jesus was created by both of them, but begotten by the father, and Yaltabaoth was created by GOD's counterpart and she is made by the father so all in all, everything has stemmed from ONE who can be or is many. This all ties in quite nicely with Quantum Physics and the explanation of some bizarre things that occur within that domain of science.

All in all I find the gnostic scriptures to be far more enlightening and explain the whole bible story far more conclusively than the known bible cannon.

XcLuciFer
I'm Curious to know what people think about this......

What does it mean?

Jesus is Satan - So Says the Bible

Now many know Lucifer as another name for Satan, or Satan's name before he rebelled against God and was cast out of Heaven. Now the Bible has very little to say about Lucifer but in less than five minutes I will show that Lucifer is in fact Jesus by what the Bible has to say about him.

Alright the english 'Lucifer' appears in the Bible, King James Version only, once in Isaiah 14:12...


Quote:
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

All other versions of the Bible do not use the word 'Lucifer' but 'day star', 'son of dawn' or 'morning star' in Isaiah 14:12. To find out why we look to the Latin Vulgate version of Isaiah 14:12....


Quote:
quomodo cecidisti de caelo lucifer qui mane oriebaris corruisti in terram qui vulnerabas gentes

The English translation simply took the latin 'lucifer' and capitalized it to make 'Lucifer'. The latin 'lucifer' is found in the Bible twice, the other passage is 2 Peter 1:19....


Quote:
et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris

This time 'lucifer' was translated into english as....


Quote:
And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.

So once the latin 'lucifer' is translated to 'Lucifer', another name for Satan, and the second time its translated to 'morning star', so who or what is this morning star? The 'morning star' appears twice in the KJ Version of the Bible, keeping in mind the KJV is the only version that has the english 'Lucifer' translation, in Revelation 2:28 and in Revelation 22:16 which reads....


Quote:
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Jesus clearly calls himself the 'morning star' or 'Lucifer'. So if Lucifer is Satan, which the majority of Christians will say, then Jesus is Satan as well.

www.thechurchofgoogle.org...

[edit on 4/7/2008 by XcLuciFer]

You are lost and confused. The name you use says it all.

I think most agree....with only one flag.

reply to post by Fraudfinder

His confusion comes from treating "son of the morning" as a name.
Once it is recognised as a title of honour rather than a name, the puzzle disappears.
It can belong to different people in the same way that "king" or "president" can belong to different people.

(So the traditional Christian habit of treating "Lucifer" as a name is actually responsible for this modern quibble)

Text Jesus is Satan - So Says the Bible

reply to post by XcLuciFer


The Jehovah Witness claim that Jesus is a created angel. Most other Christians claim that Jesus is the begotten image (Son) of the Creator G-d. Still others claim that Jesus is the created brother of Licifer (Satan).

Most Christians claim that this Lucifer sinned in heaven and was cast out of heaven along with one third of the heavenly angels who accepted him as their leader. Now here is where it gets a little more confusing. Satan (Lucifer) and his one third of the heavenly host were cast down to this universe and into this world as punishment for disobeying G-d.

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

2Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Most Christians will be taught that the one third of the angels who had followed Satan were these of which Peter has said are cast down to hell. If they were cast down to hell, I then questioned, who are the demons of which we read so much about in the New Testament?

Going to R.H. Charlesworth -- Book 1, “The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha” gave me an explanation of my question. 1st Enoch, Book 1, 15:8-12 explains this in the following manner.

“ 8 But now the giants who are born from the (union of) the spirits and the flesh shall be called evil spirits upon the earth, because their dwelling shall be upon the earth and inside the earth. 9 Evil spirits have come out of their bodies. Because from the day that they were created from the holy ones they became the Watchers; their first origin is the spiritual foundation. They will become evil upon the earth and shall be called evil spirits. 10 The dwelling of the spiritual beings of heaven is heaven; but the dwelling of the spirits of the earth, which are born upon the earth, is in the earth. 11 The spirits of the giants oppress each other, they will corrupt, fall, be excited, and fall upon the earth, and cause sorrow. They eat no food, nor become thirsty, nor find obstacles. 12 And these spirits shall rise up against the children of the people and against the women, because they have proceeded forth from them.”

By this I understand that there have been not one but two invasions of the heavenly host. The first group of angels who were cast down to hell is still in hell awaiting judgment. These are they who Jude references. The second invasion was the two hundred who came down on Mount Herman in the days of Enosh. These were those who produced giants among men and who Enoch explains are the evil spirits among men. These are those who Jesus battled during His ministry and the ones who oppress us today.

Now if all of this is true than Is Lucifer (Satan) still bound in hell along with his cohorts? And is all of this evil in the world the that of the giants who came out of the union of human women and angels? If Lucifer is bound in hell then how could he be Jesus? Just asking-----------------------

reply to post by XcLuciFer


Isaiah 14:12-21. The word "Lucifer" is a misnomer taken from the latin words Lux (Light) and Ferre (bearer). He tried to play God and claimed his titles and got smacked down into a cursed body, which is how he showed up in Eden looking like a serpent/dragon. This misnomer has caused quite a lot of confusion and is the culprit of gnostic teaching that Christ is Lucifer and is a case of mistaken identity.

Isaiah 14:12 "Oh Lucifer, son of the morning" translates as Heilel ben shachar or "Howl you! son of dawn" in Hebrew.

Satan was not only stripped of his name, he was stripped of his titles.

Hebrew days begin at dusk around 6 pm with the rising of the moon, so the hebrew "morning" would be the evening. The "son of the dawn" would be the moon. The moon tries to act like the light, but it is not the light, it can only pretend to be the light by reflecting the light of the sun. This allegory points at who satan really is. He is Hu'bal the god of pre-Islamic arabs whose temple is the Kaaba in Mecca, the one they worship now as "Allah" of the Kaa'ba, also known as "Al'Makka" the bullgod of the Arab Sabeans whose symbol is the crescent moon and star. In a round about way Isaiah was pointing at the god of the midianites.

It is written that satan masquerades as an "angel of light". Angel translates as "messenger", so he masquerades as the "messenger of light", which is possibly a reference to the future son of perdition written of in the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

John 8:12

12 Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.”

questonterra

 

 

I totally and completely concure, find no problems with this post. I would say one thing though, you seem obtuse and slightly remote.