Raelian Conspiracy to Overthrow Religion

Originally posted by jimmyjackblack
Well while I don't know what LHC is. I would like to know why you guys always state your theories as fact? The THEORY of evolution has gone through it's own evolution, but it has been stated as fact in every stage, a fact, is a fact, is a fact, but evolution keeps changing. If your proving the existance of God though, why not just believe He did everything the way He said He did it?

Science states nothing as fact and I believe that the misconception is the fault of scientists. We've never made a clear case, nor have we ever clearly defined what we mean when we say "theory".

The LHC is the Large Hadron Collider. It's a huge particle accelerator that would allow string theorists to test certain condition to prove or disprove their theories with results. And thus Getting some facts. Theory is always changing as new data comes in, and that is something that has to be made quite clear. A theory is NOT some arbitrary idea, it is substantiated by LARGE swathes of data to support it. Some times theories fall apart completely when a new piece of data comes out. It doesn't depress the scientist because the scientist is looking for what IS going on. Not what he/she thinks is going on. That would be a hypothesis. Which is an arbitrary idea until a test(experimentation) can be set up to solidify or falsify the conditions of the hypothesis. If it hold up to scrutiny, then it becomes theory. And part of curriculum.

No where is fact implied until we know for CERTAIN that it is a fact, that nothing we do can change the conditions of what our theories tell us.

And it really isn't about proving god for me. I already believe in God. But it is our job to understand god. And one of the best ways to do this is to describe what goes on in his universe and in his worlds.

Looks like the female one is feeding a protoceratops:




I'm a little confuse about your last pic of the head statues, the one on the left does'nt look like it really has any eyes, looks like it pulling a Jordy LaForge or something:




Where's it's eyes?

Originally posted by projectvxn

Originally posted by akasha22
What about the possibility of every creature on earth representing a different planet/realm being placed here including humans? Like its one big experiment with creatures throughout the universe, but its gone terribly wrong.

Far be it for me to tell you what to believe. But there is NO evidence supporting this at all.

Yes this is true-theres no evidence, but theres no" evidence" about aliens making humans-except ancient philosophies that reference where they came from. You are much too "logical" for me but I tend to WAY over-speculate--I am not scientific minded, so I'm learning alot from your posts & thats a good thing, because I want to learn as much as I can! AND-everyone knows you can't get it on tv....
The "possibilities" are infinite; logical or not. I'm saying that with as many stars are there up in the sky, & as many creatures there are on earth, if the Raelians say they were put here to procreate with whoever/whatever was already here, then could it not be a "possibility" that the same thing happened with all the other species? Why would it be humans alone?

Same with some peoples perceptions of aliens, that they're all little grey men with almond shaped eyes that go around experimenting on people...Do you know what I am trying to say? Its not written in stone, no one knows for sure whats really out there, how we got here, etc...?

Originally posted by projectvxn

Originally posted by jimmyjackblack
Well while I don't know what LHC is. I would like to know why you guys always state your theories as fact? The THEORY of evolution has gone through it's own evolution, but it has been stated as fact in every stage, a fact, is a fact, is a fact, but evolution keeps changing. If your proving the existance of God though, why not just believe He did everything the way He said He did it?

Science states nothing as fact and I believe that the misconception is the fault of scientists. We've never made a clear case, nor have we ever clearly defined what we mean when we say "theory".

The LHC is the Large Hadron Collider. It's a huge particle accelerator that would allow string theorists to test certain condition to prove or disprove their theories with results. And thus Getting some facts. Theory is always changing as new data comes in, and that is something that has to be made quite clear. A theory is NOT some arbitrary idea, it is substantiated by LARGE swathes of data to support it. Some times theories fall apart completely when a new piece of data comes out. It doesn't depress the scientist because the scientist is looking for what IS going on. Not what he/she thinks is going on. That would be a hypothesis. Which is an arbitrary idea until a test(experimentation) can be set up to solidify or falsify the conditions of the hypothesis. If it hold up to scrutiny, then it becomes theory. And part of curriculum.

No where is fact implied until we know for CERTAIN that it is a fact, that nothing we do can change the conditions of what our theories tell us.

And it really isn't about proving god for me. I already believe in God. But it is our job to understand god. And one of the best ways to do this is to describe what goes on in his universe and in his worlds.

OK Bryan! Then what I've stated is a "hypothesis" because I think its a possiblity, & who knows when & how anyone would be able to experiment with it. I'm not messing with you I promise!!

Whoa there Bryan!! I just read your profile--awesome!!-but like I said you are WAY "logical"!!!(not in a "bad" way tho!!) I do agree with you on the David Icke stuff-a bit far fetched even with my overly-speculative-mind. I also agree with you on the science-religion subject. My question is: why do you feel that everything that doesn't have a scientific reference is a bunch of bs? Do you actually KNOW whats "out there"? I don't think anyone REALLY knows. And I beleive that those who really know aren't gonna make it a news story. peace-no obnoxiousness intend!!

In what ways do you mean 'full of it' when it comes to evolution?

When it comes to fossil records and seeing evidence of other humanoid species, these species were sort of proto-types before they designed us. The evidence of humans emerging in Africa isn't far off, either, as Rael has said that the first humans created (Adam & Eve) were indeed black, though eventually other races were brought about.

Saying that different sorts of spacecraft come from different races is, in all honesty and I'm sorry, somewhat ludicrous and short-sighted. Look at our own technology, how we've developed vehicles. It runs the gamut of chariots, carts, automobiles, tanks, airplanes, submarines, aircraft carriers, trucks...Just because there's a variety doesn't mean it can't come from the same source.

Concerning Reptilians: I don't know much about them and I'll admit it's because of my own ignorance. Since I am a Raelian and think that space-faring civilizations can be only peaceful, I've sort of ignored the hype of Reptilians. As for thinking that our Creators are harming us, no I steadfastly disagree

The idea that the Raeliens are conspiring against traditional religions came from the first video posted in the OP. They were staging an outdoor protest against the Catholic church.

It seems like the Raeliens usually take their hard stands against the church on matters concerning sex. In this example Rael accuses the Catholic church of "crimes against humanity" for being opposed to condoms. While I am not a Catholic, I think they are actually opposed to fornication and adultery more than "condoms". That is the part the Raeliens miss...

RAEL CONGRATULATES WILLIAM PENA FOR HIS INITIATIVE ON CARRYING THE CONDOM

Bogota, January 16, 2006. Raelians of Colombia and of the whole world applaud the proposal, as reported by Reuters yesterday, of Mr. William Pena, city councilman of the town of Tulua, so that all the men of this community who in the majority of cases begin to be sexually active at around fifteen years old, according to a poll, must be obligated to carry condoms in their possession just as they carry identity cards.

(edition.cnn.com...).

RAEL, leader of the International Raelian Movement, transmitted his personal support to Mr. Willam Penna. He declares: "the pope and the catholic Church are responsible for a true genocide and should be prosecuted for crime against humanity by being opposed to the use of the condom, for thousands of human beings die each day of AIDS simply for having followed the advice of the pope. To claim that abstinence and fidelity are the only solutions to the problem is denying a hormonal reality that no education can thwart. The fact that tens of thousands of catholic priests were condemned for pedophilia around the world proves if it were necessary that hormones are stronger than religious resolutions".

theprophetrael.blogspot.com...

I would rather people use a condom than spread AIDS. But people are capable of restraining themselves as well.

Under this law a 15 year old would be breaking the law for not having a condom in is possession. Is that really something to applaud?

reply to post by Rosen


If they aren't violent then why are they doing violent and sexual things to people? Why have they taken people (and I am one of them) agianst there will? Performing sexual experiments on them? Taking there babies (even though they are hybrid babies)! I would encourage you to take a look at those video links I posted cause honestly these guys have done alot of bad and the raelians can't explain why they're doing it, at least ya'll haven't been able to yet.

I was taken against my will and a device was put into me, years later they take me agian and take the device out, I'm left with a messed up nerve in the leg of the foot where the device was put in, I also have really bad nightmares about getting abducted agian, I know it won't happen, but I still have nightmares and the only way I'm able to stop the nightmare is by calling out for Yeshua/Jesus, the nightmare ends and I feel better.
So why? Why take people and do harmful perverted evil things to them? If they are peace loving and never do anything bad, then why do people have these experiences?

Originally posted by akasha22

Whoa there Bryan!! I just read your profile--awesome!!-but like I said you are WAY "logical"!!!(not in a "bad" way tho!!) I do agree with you on the David Icke stuff-a bit far fetched even with my overly-speculative-mind. I also agree with you on the science-religion subject. My question is: why do you feel that everything that doesn't have a scientific reference is a bunch of bs? Do you actually KNOW whats "out there"? I don't think anyone REALLY knows. And I beleive that those who really know aren't gonna make it a news story. peace-no obnoxiousness intend!!

Because for the time being science is the only form we have to help us better understand the universe. What I think science lacks today is imagination. I'm open to many possibilities, but the reason I use logic as my form of conveying these ideas as opposed to pure imagination, is that even imagination needs structure if you are to make your case.

There are many things I do know. None of which I would reveal on an internet board. Or anywhere else. Suffice to say that this whole alien thing is more about us than it is about them. And that everything I have to say on the subject is based on direct information.

I understand where you're coming from Bryan, thank you for the explanation.It may help me to analyze my speculations with a little more depth than the way I do now, as I've been known to speculate myself to death. so many questions, so little time.

And I ask... So what?

If this is what they're into, how is it any skin off your nose?

Of course, the answer to this is that Christianity believes itself to be the sole proprietor of every human being on earth, and anyone who disagrees... Well..

[edit on 8-4-2008 by TheWalkingFox]

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Actually Fox I kind of agree with you... as far as I am concerned they can have their beliefs. They do actively protest against the Catholic church which is the conspiracy angle. Truth be told they aren't taken seriously enough to be much of a threat. The only real danger they pose is to the wealthy guys they fleece for "donations" with their sexual recruitment practices.

Buyer beware

[edit on 4/8/2008 by Bigwhammy]

reply to post by Bigwhammy


A new slant on Hedonism! Actually, hedonism is their God and not so much science. As far as "survival of the fittest," the proof will be in their longevity. Well, people will go to any length for addiction!

[edit on 8-4-2008 by MatrixProphet]

reply to post by jimmyjackblack

So why? Why take people and do harmful perverted evil things to them? If they are peace loving and never do anything bad, then why do people have these experiences?

Because unfortunately there does exist really evil people and evil beings out there. It is a contradiction in terms; they cannot truly be peace loving and then do evil. Many do a "show" of love but love is not in them.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
And I ask... So what?

If this is what they're into, how is it any skin off your nose?

Of course, the answer to this is that Christianity believes itself to be the sole proprietor of every human being on earth, and anyone who disagrees... Well..

[edit on 8-4-2008 by TheWalkingFox]

No one (owns) Christianity. So how can it, "belief itself" to be any
thing. Christianity isn't an individual entity. It is only a term that discribes
the followers of the teachings of Christ. Teachings that are so numerious. That the World itself could not contain the books.
Your statment is narrow minded and sterotypeing of what or who a Christian is or isn't.

Originally posted by MatrixProphet
reply to post by jimmyjackblack

 

So why? Why take people and do harmful perverted evil things to them? If they are peace loving and never do anything bad, then why do people have these experiences?

Because unfortunately there does exist really evil people and evil beings out there. It is a contradiction in terms; they cannot truly be peace loving and then do evil. Many do a "show" of love but love is not in them.

Do you mean that they act loving but in fact are not loving at all? Yes, there are people out there that do that also.
There are people out there that are truly loving & kind, so why wouldn't there be some loving & kind aliens?? Seems to me with as large as the universe is, there would be good/loving aliens as well as "bad" ones.
I've never had an encounter with an alien, & I do beleive people have been abducted & have had things happen to them, but I also wonder if we as the public only hear the bad stuff? To scare everyone? Or do those who've been abducted share any sort of simlilar traits?

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by TheWalkingFox

 

Actually Fox I kind of agree with you... as far as I am concerned they can have their beliefs. They do actively protest against the Catholic church which is the conspiracy angle. Truth be told they aren't taken seriously enough to be much of a threat. The only real danger they pose is to the wealthy guys they fleece for "donations" with their sexual recruitment practices.

Buyer beware

[edit on 4/8/2008 by Bigwhammy]

There are no sexual recruitment practices. You might want to come to seminar or local Raelian event to see for yourself. It's kind of funny you say that, because it seems most people are OK with the Catholic church and their "sexual recruitment" practices that they perform on little boys, which is another reason why we protest against the Catholic church. From my point of view, anyone who chooses Catholicism over Raelianism isn't thinking correctly I will point out that Raelians don't view sex as taboo, meaning we enjoy it and aren't afraid to let other know that! Why would a "God" create an individual to experience such pleasure and then tell them not to use it, or only experience it with the same person for their entire lives?? Stupid. For us, LOVE does not equal SEX. Everyone should love everyone, and sex is nothing more than physical play. It's a game - have fun!!

Lastly, the use of the word threat is really kind of stupid, and is typically used by those that are afraid of something. What exactly are you afraid of? The demise of the Catholic church? That's going to happen regardless of Raelians, simply because more and more people will become educated and actually think for themselves.

reply to post by ThreeNF

Now, rare video footage of the group taken at one of its Las Vegas seminars has been spun into an as-yet-unreleased documentary that brings a fresh, critical slant to the Raelians -- replete with allegations that the sect uses sex as a recruitment tool, targeting people most likely to sympathize with its message that aliens populated the world: "Trekkies and whatnot," explained Abdullah Hashem, who taped the group in May as part of a broader, personal investigation of the group.

"There are a lot of people (at these seminars) who believe in aliens, and all these beautiful women who will have sex with you even though you're a dork," he said. "And that's why most people were there."

Billed as an exposé, the video does little to shed light on the cloning controversy, according to its makers' own admissions. In a taped interview, Boisselier largely ducks questions about the existence of baby Eve, Hashem said. And Claude Vorilhon, the Raelian leader, says that he has never seen the baby, but that he supports Boisselier's efforts "morally."

In fact, few people believe the cloning claims anyway, so there is little left to debunk. But the video does offer a little-seen view into the inner workings of the Raelians and the sway that Vorilhon -- aka Rael -- wields over his followers, according to people who have seen it.

www.wired.com...

I didn't make it up. It's been in the news....

Raelians Sue Documentary-Makers

By Kristen Philipkoski

Brigitte_f Last year I wrote an article about two Purdue students who infiltrated the Raelian annual recruitment extravaganza in Las Vegas and filmed a documentary. Abdullah Hashem and Joe McGowen (here they are with Raelian bishop and Clonaid CEO Brigitte Boisellier) released their film at Purdue in November 2006. It revealed questionable activities including misuse of the organization's funds and using sex to lure new members. They recently entered the film in Steven Spielberg's On The Lot competition.

Apparently the Raelians have had about enough of their antics. They say Hashem and McGowen signed an agreement that video or photographs taken during the Realian retreat would be the Raelian's property. They're suing Hashem and several Purdue employees for more than $1,000,000 for pain and suffering, mental humiliation, and lost income and expenses.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by ThreeNF

 

Now, rare video footage of the group taken at one of its Las Vegas seminars has been spun into an as-yet-unreleased documentary that brings a fresh, critical slant to the Raelians -- replete with allegations that the sect uses sex as a recruitment tool, targeting people most likely to sympathize with its message that aliens populated the world: "Trekkies and whatnot," explained Abdullah Hashem, who taped the group in May as part of a broader, personal investigation of the group.

"There are a lot of people (at these seminars) who believe in aliens, and all these beautiful women who will have sex with you even though you're a dork," he said. "And that's why most people were there."

Billed as an exposé, the video does little to shed light on the cloning controversy, according to its makers' own admissions. In a taped interview, Boisselier largely ducks questions about the existence of baby Eve, Hashem said. And Claude Vorilhon, the Raelian leader, says that he has never seen the baby, but that he supports Boisselier's efforts "morally."

In fact, few people believe the cloning claims anyway, so there is little left to debunk. But the video does offer a little-seen view into the inner workings of the Raelians and the sway that Vorilhon -- aka Rael -- wields over his followers, according to people who have seen it.

www.wired.com...

Yup, I know all about that and as Sage said in the article, it's a complete misunderstanding. You need to go to a seminar and see for yourself We love sensuality and have nothing to hide, but sex certainly isn't used to recruit people. Infiltrated? Give me a break! Haha! The seminar is free for those attending for the first time! Everyone and anyone is welcome!!