The Reason It Really Doesn't Matter if God Exists...

reply to post by MatrixProphet



My concept of God. Well, I suppose I believe He does in fact exist. Just not as the bible puts it. Nor as Islam puts it. And in fact, not as any man made religion puts it. I think we were created, and now, we are simply observed. That our creator is not involved in his masterpiece, so to speak. Unless of course if by "God" they did mean beings from another planet. As we all know, when the Spaniards showed up, the Aztecs thought of them as Gods. It could just be a matter of not knowing a better way to describe more intelligent people.

So.... I believe He or They do exist, but do not necessarily interfere. That would explain why so much evil happens. Why a lot of the most sincere prayers are never answered.

But somehow, I sense that trying to describe what I few God as, is the same as telling me to make up words with letters that haven't been created. I find it difficult to determine what He is, exactly. Only what He is not.. as you mentioned.

reply to post by HIFIGUY



You speak as if in some methodical novel of past times. You speak mazes with your words, and dance with intellect. I find it interesting, yet.. you also do not speak directly.

You play with the word Truth, and somehow, find alternate opinions of what truth is. You sound as if you are stating truth is indeed a person, and not what I'm saying it is, a form of factual evidence opposite to false, or lies.

When I asked you to elaborate, I wasn't meaning restate what YOU find as truth in that regard. I wanted you to define for me, what you feel IS truth. Do you believe that Jesus was born unto a virgin, lived 33 years, spotless, and died on the cross for your sins? And that Jehovah raised Him from the dead 3 days later so that we could all be saved by grace, through faith? Is that your truth?

My truth is easier. We are here. There was no Jehovah. You are a product of the system, and believe in that which you were raised around. To Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, and all other religions, they would state THEIR religion is truth. Which makes them all, opinions. They each borrow stories, twist them to fit their own agenda, and then release them back into the maddening sea of thoughts. We shop as if in a spiritual cafeteria, and pick which ones we like, and which ones we don't. We then proceed to stand on the lunch tables and shout, "PICK THIS ONE! IT'S THE BEST AND EASIEST TO SWALLOW!!" Does that define truth? Please... enlighten me, my friend.

reply to post by EagleTalonZ


Ill tell this dream again as it pertains to Truth:

I once saw a little girl, perhaps 5 years of age.
She held her hand high over her head with a yo yo attached to a long string.
She lightly walked around with it.

I looked over at her, and said: " The Yo Yo string is too Long"
She said to me: " no it isn't "
and I awoke.

I thought about this dream. Just one of multitudes. How does it apply to Truth?

Ask yourself, was the Yo Yo string too long?
The Little Girl was perfectly happy with the string the length as it was.
Yet I knew, as someone who is reasonably good with a Yo Yo, that the string was too long.

Just because the Girl wasn't using the Yo Yo as intended, doesn't mean the string wasn't right or she wasn't using it in the correct manner.

But if you spoke to the Yo Yo manufacturer, they would tell you the design of the Yo Yo was a toy and that it was intended to be used in a particular manner by which the Yo Yo traveled up and down the string.

To assist us in learning, they even provided an instruction book on how to do it correctly.

How is it that one person can see something within a picture yet another person is blind to it.
It does not mean that the person who cannot see will forever be blind, but merely needs assistance.

I would present that the creator of the Universe has a divine intent for use as humanity and beyond for all of the life forms that exist today. That while one man says the Yo Yo string can be used one way, and yet another man the other, that ultimately, the Truth of the grand design was a way in which " Gods will be done, on Earth as it is in heaven "' based on the command of ' Love one another "

Lastly, my experience with God may be quite different then the average man.

I tell you the Truth, some of the statements I have made previous are not my own.

Ask yourself who the Word is. Answer this, and you might know.

I assure you, not through my Faith alone, the Almighty God is real.

Peace


[edit on 16-4-2008 by HIFIGUY]

Originally posted by EagleTalonZ
My truth is easier. We are here. There was no Jehovah. You are a product of the system, and believe in that which you were raised around. To Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, and all other religions, they would state THEIR religion is truth. Which makes them all, opinions. They each borrow stories, twist them to fit their own agenda, and then release them back into the maddening sea of thoughts. We shop as if in a spiritual cafeteria, and pick which ones we like, and which ones we don't. We then proceed to stand on the lunch tables and shout, "PICK THIS ONE! IT'S THE BEST AND EASIEST TO SWALLOW!!" Does that define truth? Please... enlighten me, my friend.

i just wanted to mention something i noticed.

you logic here points to the assumption that everyone is wrong. if you are searching for truth, assuming is the worst thing to do.

i actually agree with hifiguy alittle here, whether or not there is a god or not, there is an absolute truth and that absolute truth exists whether or not you agree with it.

ill show you the way i concluded that jehovah exists just so you can see where im coming from.

1 - absolute truth exists because we can trust certain constants. unless something acts on the sun (alien weapon, or some unknown celestrial event) we know it will rise tommarrow. we can base our lives on it. we know that we wont fall off the planet because of the gravity. we know if you plant a seed and water it, it will grow and feed us. all this is despite the seeming chaos of quantum mechanics. the universe is order not chaos. so there is law guiding it. this law is absolute truth (not god, just a system)

an example of absolute truth, we exist. we know this to be fact, we can trust that fact.

2 - we exist, so how do we exist. this question is boiled down to the very fundemental question of how the universe came to be. absolute truth is that something cannot come from nothing. so NEVER was there "nothing". either the universe always existed and we are in a state of constant change, or god created the universe and he/she/it always existed. either way, we have to wrap our brains around the fact something was ALWAYS there. otherwise there would be nothing and will always be nothing.

3 - does a god exist. the evidence that so many people claim is lacking i believe lays in life. a rock floating in space interacts with its enviroment but in a pure action reaction way. a simple single cell organism (the simplest form of life we know) is infinately more complex than a rock. not only does it interact with its environment in a unique way but it also has a state of living and nonliving. a rock is always a rock, but if a cell "dies" it becomes like a rock. life also has reproduction. according to ahiests, when life was formed, it was imediately aware (on some level) that it was going to die, the immediate solution was to procreate or split. this solution had to be immediate because if it wasn't then the cell would die and nature would have to wait eons for another "accident".

thats a huge fricken leap! matter comes to life that is aware of death and learns to procreate in one generation. why did it have to learn procreation? because matter doesnt procreate. a rock cares less if you smash it to bits an so doesnt have the need or will to procreate.

even if you reason god is an alien, who created the alien? thier most primitive form would have had to face the same issues.

4 - so if logic points more to there being a god, does he want to be worshiped? this is the crossroads for me logically speaking. because if the answer is no, then it doesnt matter what we do. end of the line for this strain of logic.

so lets say there is a possibility of yes, god wants us to worship him.

5 - if god wants to be worshiped he would tell us. oral history is just that, oral. its hard to validify and can be changed easy. god must have known that. so what books show evidence of the divine?

long story short, i arrived at the bible (that is a whole other post)

3 things stood out to me, 1 was evidence of a great flood can be seen throughout the world. 2 the bible mentioned assyria long before anyone knew that the nation once existed (in fact assyria was used alot to say that the bible was inaccurate). 3 prophecy. especially pertaining to the fall of babylon. ive heard a few people say that pyhcics could have written the bible prophecies, but thier predictions are usually very vague and can or have to be interrpreted. the bible mentioned the man who would conquer babylon by name and even said how he would do it. that was a VERY specific example.

--------------------------

thats the abbreiviated version of how i arrived to where i am now. the accurancy of the bible on many things forced me to conclude that god is trying to tell us something.

keep in mind, the bible made no sense to me at the time. a big hang up for me was why god permitted me to suffer the way that i have. especially if the bible says god is love.

im adding to hifi's statement when i say
the problem with absolute truth, is sometime you dont want to believe it. you want so bad to believe something else, but in the end truth is truth, whether you choose to see the evidence or not.

Sometimes our resistance says a lot. Examining our resistance can open up doors to new understanding. If we are wearing blinders how can we expect to "see" what we are meant to see?This is where free will comes in, God will not force us to see in advance what eventually will hit us.

Resistance can cause us to not "sense" when something is going to happen before it does. When I had a mindset that was dictated by the outside world - I missed all the signs, but that did not mean that others missed them.

I have acute senses. The day before 9-11 I was in bed very upset because I knew that something horrific was going to happen. My family was really worried about me. The next morning I learned why. I honor my senses even if everyone else will deny what I am saying. I have had too much life experience to go against it.

God is alive and well, I can assure you. But you are right about him standing on the sidelines (to an extent) letting man climb over each other in their cages, to rise above everyone else, and so miss what is right in front of them. No where does it say anywhere that all mankind would be awake, nor does it say anywhere that all would be privy to his will!

reply to post by miriam0566


I don't remember stating this before, but I was raised in a very Christian home, full of "miraculous" signs and strangely yet Godly signs. Speaking in tongues, prophecy, visions, sightings of angels, so forth and so forth. My mom is a very devout believer. And the worst part in all of this, is watching her get older, and watching her cry over and over again as 3 of her 4 boys have wavered in their faith and eventually toppled over in the lack of existence in God.

During this difficult trial, her and I have battled many times. It's not that I want to hurt her worse, it is that I am sure of what I believe. To a point sometimes, that I will argue even in the face of "facts". I have had awesome experiences, and that is brought up many times. "How can you not believe when this and that has happened?"

To be honest... I wish someone would prove me wrong. Though I feel free now... I also feel like I am all alone in the vast expanse of space. I feel like I was much safer, and more comfortable on the ground singing praise and worship in church, and delivering God's message of hope to the people. I remember having awesome memories of losing track of time when I would be praying, or just praising God in my own home. Or laughing when my little girls would say, "Daddy, I'm crying because I know Jesus is in my heart, and I love Him!" To know now that I feel strangely distant to those thoughts. To those dreams. And to that man I once was... it doesn't instill happiness in me. I do feel a great void. But...

This doesn't prove to me God's existence. I look at nations where hope is ALL they have; i.e- Africa. Yet.. they have ONLY that. They walk for miles to attend churches full of biting flies, and sweltering heat. Then return home late in the evening to their still starving families, and poverty stricken lives. And I watch the news as child after child is beaten. Or molested by priests. Yes, I would be the first person to say, "But we did that. That is sin evident." Yet... why would God allow that? Those children will grow up with such hostility. Some will kill themselves as a result. And many children in Africa just died from starvation in the midst of my writing this. Is that evidence of God as well?

In my path, I have fallen in love, and been hurt countless times. During these trials I smiled and said, "You can't have victories without trials, and you can't have rainbows without storms. All things work for the good of those who love Him and are called according to His purpose! Praise God!!" But in the midst of a relationship in the not too distant past, I had preachers, prophets, and many visions confirm that this woman was to be my wife. She said she loved me all the time, and I was more on fire than I have ever been. But sadly, she turned out to be the complete opposite of who she said she was. And so I inquired, "Why God? I know most things happen for a reason, but what is the reason in this? I'm not growing from it. It proves that my pastor, nor the prophets, and not even my own spirit were correct in confirming this. So does that mean I can't hear you? What is the reason?"

I did a study, Miriam. I found out that hell is NOT a place of burning torment. I commend you for opening my eyes up to the truth on that. Thank you. And for the most part, it is believed to be simply a separation from God.

I say, if He is real. And His love exists. Then NO ONE will be turned away. So living however you want, will not matter. He came to save the WORLD. Not some. According to His word.

And if He isn't... live your life. Be kind. It's still the same message for me. But for what it's worth.. I do miss the innocence I once had... in those moments I felt whole and nothing could destroy me. I miss it... but it will take Him and Him alone to change my mind now.

I'm still searching for Truth...

reply to post by EagleTalonZ


Im going for a walk, and Im going to ponder your words brother.

Peace

reply to post by EagleTalonZ


I have been in a very similar position in my life. I asked Jah to show me his truth and was stunned when I found it to be so different than what most think or believe. You are right. You are going to need to be shown by God, but don't close your eyes for the answers may be in front of you.

I wanted to add: there is a lot of grief when one leaves organized religion. There seems to be safety in groups, but I actually found the opposite to be true...later.

As sad as it is, and as much as I ranted and raved, God views us differently than we view ourselves. It explains so much. We don't have to like it, but perhaps it is important to understand it!

[edit on 17-4-2008 by MatrixProphet]

reply to post by EagleTalonZ


After a good walk and a talk with a good friend, here is my observation.

I quote not to dispute you, but to bring to light some of your statements to gain insight into what your asking, versus what you are seeking. What you are stating, versus what you are concluding.

For you to ask is not to be at peace, but in search. Your claim to be at peace does not seem to be the case, but rather a position that fulfills a conclusion of the unexplained.

Therefore, when you say...

Originally posted by EagleTalonZ
I do know the Word

Do you? The words or The Word?

John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us

Originally posted by EagleTalonZ
It's not that I want to hurt her worse, it is that I am sure of what I believe. To a point sometimes, that I will argue even in the face of "facts"

It is this last statement, that appears to ring throughout your posts.

In one breath you say:

Originally posted by EagleTalonZ
The bible has far too many stories that have been taken from other, much older religions. He simply doesn't exist.

and then

Originally posted by EagleTalonZ
You believe in God, so you argue for His side, and on His defense. I don't anymore, so I am having difficulty in accepting those ideas.

Then turn around and say:

Originally posted by EagleTalonZ
I feel I should point out that I am not an atheist. I'm sure I have come across as such, and may have even used the word a little too much. But I am not.

and then

Originally posted by EagleTalonZ
My concept of God. Well, I suppose I believe He does in fact exist. Just not as the bible puts it.

Ultimately you say...

Originally posted by EagleTalonZ
I'm still searching for Truth...

Yes, it appears you indeed are. And you will go cold and hot as your posts have shown, like the tempering of the hardest steel.

I have learned that silence and a clear mind is best. Do not question, but listen.
Be kind as you have stated. Love one another for you know that is best, and in serving others, you have done a will of Good.

Quiet your indecision, and calm the storm of question in your mind. Watch your dreams, and know that when Job says:

"In dreams and visions of the night when deep sleep falleth upon men, then doth the All Wise open their ears and send to them instructions."--Book of Job.

That he speaks the Truth

Literally

Peace


[edit on 18-4-2008 by HIFIGUY]

reply to post by HIFIGUY


I knew I could count on you to dissect my posts. And I know that I confused. lol That doesn't offend me, to be honest. I suppose it's a natural reaction when one loses the religion they were raised to believe.

On one hand, you still want to, and some part of you does... believe in God. But on the other... you read, and research, and find things that are completely the opposite of what you've believed for the last 26 years. It makes it very hard indeed.


What I mean by so many things is that I do believe a higher power exists. I suppose I could be called an Agnostic. But I don't believe so much that he is involved in our lives... so to speak. If He was, why is there so many unanswered and unresolved issues?

My search is far from simple, and could take the rest of my life. I am NOT satisfied with Christianity though, and even though I miss it deeply, I don't think it is the truth anymore. It has too many holes to be factual. (in my opinion)

Am I confused? of course! This road is strange to me. I'm not an expert on this path at all. Not even close. In fact, I'm not sure this path even HAS answers. It's just like I said I felt... "a vast expanse of space". I literally feel like I'm up in space and surrounded by nothingness, and yet... everything. I could take any path, and still be surrounded by pure nothingness. I think it is what I make of it.

If you could have talked to me when I was so on fire for God, I think you would have said what many others said of me, "Wow.. you're passion for God and your knowledge of His word are truly impressive" (even though I did tell people not to praise me, but to praise Him)

This thread has taken an interesting turn. lol I still think the point of all of this is that God won't truly allow separation from His children. (if He exists)

My problem is that I'm EXTREMELY open about myself, so I have in a way, derailed my own thread. lol But it's ok... I think it's interesting, so feel free to maintain whatever course you feel is best.

The bible says, “The heart of the prudent getteth knowledge; and the ear of the wise seeketh knowledge.”

(Proverbs 18:15)

I'm not too foolish to consider your words. And I'm thankful for each of them.

reply to post by EagleTalonZ

Originally posted by EagleTalonZ
The bible says, “The heart of the prudent getteth knowledge; and the ear of the wise seeketh knowledge.”
(Proverbs 18:15)

One does not get stronger without enduring the extremes...

Like the hardest steel, forged in the hottest fire, and plunged into extreme cold, the sword of Truth cuts through that which all others fail...

Peace bro

Check your u2u

[edit on 18-4-2008 by HIFIGUY]