The most invalid argument concerning 9/11

reply to post by Swampfox46_1999


SWAMP, good finds....that last one, the little red book. Well, let me tell you, pilots use it too. Go check out any pilot's supply website ... Sporty's is a big one, PilotStore another....look for loogbooks, then Flight Crew Logs, you'll see the ubiquitous little Red Book, $6.95

WW

[corrected 'Sporty's]

[edit on 4/5/0808 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
And you still wonder how a passport could survive an airliner accident?

Well thats 1 problem. Columbia was an accident and had a bigger investigation then the Crime scenes of the 9/11 planes.

In case you did not know the plane crash sites were crime scenes.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
And you still wonder how a passport could survive an airliner accident?

Well thats 1 problem. Columbia was an accident and had a bigger investigation then the Crime scenes of the 9/11 planes.

In case you did not know the plane crash sites were crime scenes.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand. If papers and videotapes can survive a fiery reentry, then so can a passport survive an airliner crash. And in the case of Columbia, the crash sites WERENT inspected longer than the 9/11 sites.

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
And in the case of Columbia, the crash sites WERENT inspected longer than the 9/11 sites.

Well thats where you are wrong.

The FBI officialy worked the crime scene at the Pentagon for 5 days. They did a longer investigation on the Columbia.



[edit on 5-4-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
And in the case of Columbia, the crash sites WERENT inspected longer than the 9/11 sites.

Well thats where you are wrong.

The FBI officialy worked the crime scene at the Pentagon for 5 days. They did a longer investigation on the Columbia.



[edit on 5-4-2008 by ULTIMA1]

No, they didnt spend more than five days investigating any of the places they found Columbia wreckage. Now, they did spend more than five days going over the wreckage when it was hauled back to the Cape and they spent more than five days going over telemetry and video. Of course, the FBI also spent more than five days going over the rest of the evidence recovered from the Pentagon.

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999. Of course, the FBI also spent more than five days going over the rest of the evidence recovered from the Pentagon.

The FBI only spent 5 days working the crime scene at the Pentagon.

www.defenselink.mil...

WASHINGTON, Sept. 24, 2001 -- The FBI assumed crime-scene jurisdiction at the Pentagon terrorist attack site Sept. 21 from the Arlington County (Va.) Fire Department, officials said.

FBI officials estimate the crime scene investigation would last about a month, Arlington Fire Chief Edward P. Plaugher said. He said he expects "additional remains will be discovered during the course of the FBI investigation" and mortuary specialists will remain on site to process them.



WASHINGTON, Sept. 26, 2001 -- The FBI handed over Pentagon crash site management to the Army Military District of Washington at 7 a.m. today.

The transfer of responsibility marks the end of the FBI's crime scene investigation following the Sept. 11 terrorist attack against the Pentagon. MDW will oversee ongoing security operations around the damaged area of the building. FBI investigators will move their operations to the Pentagon's north parking lot and continue to sift through debris for more evidence.

The Columbia tragedy is on-topic inasmuch as showing the chaos that surrounds accidents....and the strangeness of what can 'survive' unscathed.

Slightly off here, but you can bet your sweet Bippy they had a good idea of what happened just from the telemetry, from STS...various heat sensors, and their locations, the control surface positions, and RCS thruster patterns, etc. Lots of the 'wreckage' investigation was mostly to confirm or corroborate the initial theory of Columbia.

I believe it obscures the discussion to use the 9/11 events as 'crime' scenes, when comparing to Columbia. The collecting of forensic evidence is fairly similar...whether it's the NTSB or FBI...just, the focus was, a terrorist act. Guessing the AA587 crash in Queens, NY in Novermber 2001 got a lot of FBI on scene at first....don't hear much about that....now that we know what brought that jet down.

SwissAir 111....now, again...completely solved, inflight electrical fire, notwithstanding a certain 'former' gentleman's claims to the contrary...

Really, we can't keep finding a 'conspiracy' under every....ummm....here it comes!!! 'Bush'

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Guessing the AA587 crash in Queens, NY in Novermber 2001 got a lot of FBI on scene at first....don't hear much about that....now that we know what brought that jet down.

SwissAir 111....now, again...completely solved, inflight electrical fire, notwithstanding a certain 'former' gentleman's claims to the contrary...

Do not foret Flight 800. Was first thought to be a bomb on board and then later people stated they saw a missile.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Yes strange things happen but some things are just against normal odds.
Like the odds of finding more things belonging to the hijackers then the passengers.

See? This is what I mean. Referring to the original reason I posted this topic.. BS claims not based in reality. I guess if this were actually true, you'd have to believe things were fishy and this is the stuff many of you base your theories on.

ULTIMA1, if it were proven to you that there was a LOT more personal items found of the passengers than the hijackers would you rethink your theories on what happened that day or just shift to something else?

I am so tired of seeing this type of false argument, this is my number TWO biggest annoyance with this, I might even have to start a new thread to combat the ignorance of this one as well.

There were NOT more things belonging to the hijackers then the passengers found. There were more things belonging to the hijackers then the passengers REPORTED on.

Just because you saw a news report that said “two passports, license, phone records, post it note.. etc were found belonging to hijackers” shouldn’t make you say to yourself “Gee, that’s odd.. There should have been more passenger stuff than hijacker stuff.. I mean Katie Curic would surely tell us about all that”

To get some real info on what was found, you can do some research and not just on ATS. Someone telling you more stuff belonging to hijackers was found than passengers does not make it so.

There are many sources, the NYPD for one maintains a list and also there was one guy who headed it although I am not sure if it is still him, or the number...Michael Henley (is/was the Evidence and Property Control Specialist) at 646-610-5531


Let's take your other proclamation and dissect that shall we Ultima1?

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
You did not hear about all the paperwork and stuff left behind in bags and luggage by the hijackers at other airports? "

Ok.. this shows that you are not a critical thinker or just don't wish to examine the situation.

1. You said “did you hear…” which tells me you base things on what you hear and what suits you.
2. The Hijackers were not going to their destinations and there was no reason to worry about any investigation afterward.. getting rid of evidence was not a priority. So finding a flight manual in a rental .. not all the hard to believe.
3. The passengers would not be leaving any personal bags or info anywhere as they were taking it all with them as they actually washed to reach the scheduled destination.
4. No one investigated (ala.. reported on) the passengers belongings left in cars or lost in transit or whatever..What’s the point of that?

Seriously your arguments (at least the few I have seen here) are seriously flawed.


What a lot of you fail to realize (or do not want to) is that events on this scale distort, unintentionally cover up and/or lose, and generally screw up the information we might need to have a better understanding on what actually happened.

An investigator sifting through rubble doesn’t jump up and down and go on the today show if he finds someone’s grocery list, but he would if he found a hijacker passport. That plus emotion and human nature account for reporting anomolies, incorrect statements and dozens of other "issues".


Again, I am not saying one way or another about 9/11, I am not challenging theories here, I am challenging bullcrap.

The passport and the belongings are two examples that held up as evidence when they clearly are not.

so how can 3 planes crash into 3 building on the same day and you get 2 differant effects?

1) The pentagon was struck and barley anything was found from a plane.

2) The WTC was hit (obviously by a plane) with in my oppinion alot more intensity and alot more likley for damage, and a piece of paper was found... thing do get puched by explosions... but they also get destroyed by them. How are you honestly using that as ur main point that 9/11 wasn't staged by the goverment? Its paper, paper is ALOT more vounerable to fire than steel and barley anything from the plane survived... but thats O.K., a piece of paper is surley stronger than steel. Hey, maby we will find their napkins.

so how can 3 planes crash into 3 building on the same day and you get 2 differant effects?

1) The pentagon was struck and barley anything was found from a plane.

2) The WTC was hit (obviously by a plane) with in my oppinion alot more intensity and alot more likley for damage, and a piece of paper was found... thing do get puched by explosions... but they also get destroyed by them. How are you honestly using that as ur main point that 9/11 wasn't staged by the goverment? Its paper, paper is ALOT more vounerable to fire than steel and barley anything from the plane survived... but thats O.K., a piece of paper is surley stronger than steel. Hey, maby we will find their napkins.

Originally posted by gormly
2. The Hijackers were not going to their destinations and there was no reason to worry about any investigation afterward.. getting rid of evidence was not a priority.

Why would hijackers leave evidence behind for investigators to find?
They just left all the baggage with all the paperwork and flight school material behind in the plane for us to find.

Wasn't that nice of them

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
reply to post by Nola213

 

Once again, an illustration of my earlier point...which appearantly confused some on here. You question how a passport could have survived the crash....and yet we know that PAPERS and VIDEOTAPES survived the Columbia hitting the atmosphere at Mach 25 and breaking apart into flaming wreckage that fell to the earth. And you still wonder how a passport could survive an airliner accident?

And yes, we do know that plenty of the personal effects belonging to the passengers were recovered.

www.post-gazette.com...

onlineathens.com...

americanhistory.si.edu...

This is really all that needs to be said on the subject. It should be sticked at the top of the page.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by gormly
2. The Hijackers were not going to their destinations and there was no reason to worry about any investigation afterward.. getting rid of evidence was not a priority.

Why would hijackers leave evidence behind for investigators to find?
They just left all the baggage with all the paperwork and flight school material behind in the plane for us to find.

Wasn't that nice of them

ULTIMA....umm....huh? Left it all ...'behind in the plane for us to find' ???

Again, please at least keep the story the same, try anyhow!

Sure....you may have mis-spoke, it happens to all of us....but, don't you think, with some of your logical brain, that they didn't give a hoot about what was left behind? Or, maybe, the did give a hoot, as proof of their 'mighty' deeds??

I'm still waiting, after hearing all of the red-herrings about the rental cars, and the Boeing manuals being 'conveniently' planted, what more can we learn, have we learned about the apartments where they used to live...?

Or did they just 'terminate' their leases or rental agreements in the middle of the month? (Sept 10). AND, where there any hotels rented, the night of Sept 10?

See....where is THIS info? Please dig around for it, would love to know....

WW



WW

Originally posted by weedwhacker
ULTIMA....umm....huh? Left it all ...'behind in the plane for us to find' ???

Gee can you read. The material was left on another plane and in an airport for us to find.

Please at least try to read my post before posting.

reply to post by ULTIMA1


ULTIMA, respectively....

could you direct me to post where 9/11 hijackers left incriminating evidence on another airplane?

Seriously, I can read, thanks for asking....but I have read quite a fE of your posts, and this is new stuff, so cut me some slack, please?

ww

reply to post by gormly


Let me get this straight. A person's passport who was on an airplane that crashed into the world trade center somehow survived?

Have you watched the videos of the collisions? The planes essentially meld with the towers on impact. HUGE explosions.

There is no way in hell a passport would survive that kind of crash. To believe otherwise in my opinion denotes a level of denial or ignorance. Choose your poison.

Wow. I didn't know people still believed this tripe.

reply to post by biggie smalls


And yet we know that parts of the plane, including some personal effects of the passengers/hijackers/crew and remains of foresaid passengers/hijackers/crew....were found in the streets and on top of the buildings surrounding the WTC. Not to mention, all of the towers were not engulfed in flames and plenty of paper documents were found in the debris.