Confirmed: 9/11 Planes Were Tracked even With Transponders Turned Off

georgewashington.blogspot.com...

One of the most important parts of the official story is that the government couldn't track the location of the hijacked planes because the hijackers had turned the transponders off. The official version is that, with transponders turned off, only "primary radar" was available to civilian air traffic controllers. Primary radar can track location, but not altitude.

This makes no sense, because America's air defenses need to protect our nation against foreign fighter jets and other airplanes invading our country. Is our trillion-dollar defense system set up so that a Russian or Chinese pilot can invade undetected if he just turns off his transponder? Darn! Why didn't we think of that?!

Primary radar is a red herring.

Why?

Because the military possesses incredible sensitive radar. For example, "military radar can track space debris as small as 10 centimetres across" miles up in space.space.newscientist.com...

AWACS Should Have Tracked Planes

Airplanes known as AWACS have incredibly sensitive doppler radar that can detect any moving object. As an Army website states:

"Although Airborne Early Warning and Control System (AWACS) airborne radar can detect practically any moving object, aircraft radar operators routinely screen out objects moving slower than 85 miles per hour to avoid tracking motor vehicles."http://leav-www.army.mil/fmso/documents/attitude.pdf

There was, in fact, at least one AWACS near Washington, D.C. www.codeonemagazine.com... on the morning of 9/11 participating in a war game exercise. The pilot learned of the attacks soon after the first hit on the World Trade Center. www.stthomas.edu... at first he thought it was part of the war game exercise, "it didn't take him long to realize it was real."http://www.stthomas.edu/aquin/archive/041202/anaconda.html

The military should have had the pilot track all planes moving in and around the White House-Pentagon corridor. That would have been standard military protocol: to protect the command and control structure of the U.S. government and military.

The Pentagon-White House Corridor Is Highly-Monitored

Even if AWACS pilots were not instructed to monitor the area, the Pentagon and White House are two of the most heavily-defended buildings in the world. They are only 2 miles apart,www.cooperativeresearch.org... and the entire area is protected air space (because the area is home to the seat of power of the commander in chief and the military) and - because there have been numerous incidents of planes approaching the White House - it is entirely certain that the whole area is covered by very sophisticated military radar.

And keep in mind that installing military radar on the ground is much easier and less expensive than mounting it in a moving airplane.

Andrews Air Force Base is only 10 miles from the Pentagon, and has doppler radar even for public weather monitoring www.tenc.net...(if the base has doppler for something as mundane as weather monitoring, doesn't it make sense that the air force base closest to the Pentagon and White House would have sophisticated radar to protect the White House and Pentagon? Or do they just monitor the weather?)

The Pentagon itself also has access to the highly sophisticated PAVE PAWS radar which is capable of monitoring many planes or missiles simultaneously.www.fas.org...

Indeed, this CBS news article implies that military radar actually was tracking Flight 77 as it approached the Pentagon. And Dick Cheney -- sitting in a military command bunker underneath the White House-- monitored flight 77 for many miles as it approached the Pentagon (confirmed here).

The Other Planes

While I have focused on Flight 77 and the area surrounding the Pentagon, this diagram shows that all of the hijacked planes flew over numerous military bases on 9/11 before crashing. Those military bases undoubtedly possess highly-sophisticated radar as well.thememoryhole.com...

In addition, the is strong evidence that the planes were being tracked. For example, an ABC News article states:

"Controllers at the Boston Center knew American Airlines Flight 11, which departed at 7:59 a.m. ET from Boston for its flight to Los Angeles, was hijacked 30 minutes before it crashed. They tracked it to New York on their radar scopes. 'I watched the target of American 11 the whole way down,' said Boston controller Mark Hodgkins. "

Confirmed

All of the above-described information confirms the statement by a former air traffic controller, who knows the flight corridor which the two planes which hit the Twin Towers flew "like the back of my hand", and who handled two actual hijackings, that planes can be tracked on radar even when their transponders are turned off www.communitycurrency.org...(also, listen to this interview)video.google.com...

www.911blogger.com...




[edit on 28-3-2008 by IvanZana]

Originally posted by IvanZana
One of the most important parts of the official story is that the government couldn't track the location of the hijacked planes because the hijackers had turned the transponders off.

No, radar can still track planes with the transponder off you just do not get the additional data the transponder gives off like plane ID.

Although Flight 77 did go completly off radar for about 36 minutes.

reply to post by IvanZana

One of the most important parts of the official story is that the government couldn't track the location of the hijacked planes because the hijackers had turned the transponders off. The official version is that, with transponders turned off, only "primary radar" was available to civilian air traffic controllers. Primary radar can track location, but not altitude.

Not according to the 9/11 Commission Report. All flights were tracked until shortly before impact time with the exception of flight 77 and it didn't show up on primary for roughly 8 minutes.

This makes no sense, because America's air defenses need to protect our nation against foreign fighter jets and other airplanes invading our country. Is our trillion-dollar defense system set up so that a Russian or Chinese pilot can invade undetected if he just turns off his transponder? Darn! Why didn't we think of that?!

If Russia and China launched an invasion from within the interior of the United States then, yes, they would've went undetected.

NORAD was set up to protect the USA from foreign bombers and cruise missiles coming in from the exterior not the interior. Here's a map of their radar sites. The maroon radars are NORAD.

Even if AWACS pilots were not instructed to monitor the area, the Pentagon and White House are two of the most heavily-defended buildings in the world. They are only 2 miles apart,www.cooperativeresearch.org... and the entire area is protected air space (because the area is home to the seat of power of the commander in chief and the military) and - because there have been numerous incidents of planes approaching the White House - it is entirely certain that the whole area is covered by very sophisticated military radar.

Who says the Pentagon and White House are the most heavily defended buildings in the world?

The entire area is not protected airspace. The National Mall and the vice president's house are P 56 airspace and the Pentagon is not protected or restricted at all with the exception of it being Class B airspace.
Reagan National Airport is less than a mile from the Pentagon, how is it supposed to be protected from civilian aircraft? Also, if the area is so well protected, then why did this slow moving Cessna 150 crash on the White House lawn?

The Pentagon itself also has access to the highly sophisticated PAVE PAWS radar which is capable of monitoring many planes or missiles simultaneously.www.fas.org...

Your PAVE PAWS source mentions nothing about it being capable of tracking aircraft, it only mentions ICBMs and satellites. My source shows that it does not cover any of the continental United States. That is some really bad research.

While I have focused on Flight 77 and the area surrounding the Pentagon, this diagram shows that all of the hijacked planes flew over numerous military bases on 9/11 before crashing. Those military bases undoubtedly possess highly-sophisticated radar as well.thememoryhole.com...

Are you speculating about the military bases having sophisticated radar, if not, please provide a source.
Why would they be searching for civilian aircraft that was already being tracked? When and who asked them to track the hijacked airliners?

Indeed, this CBS news article implies that military radar actually was tracking Flight 77 as it approached the Pentagon. And Dick Cheney -- sitting in a military command bunker underneath the White House-- monitored flight 77 for many miles as it approached the Pentagon (confirmed here).

Your link doesn't work. My understanding is that it wasn't the military. It was Danielle O'Brien and she was a controller at Dulles.

reply to post by ULTIMA1

Although Flight 77 did go completly off radar for about 36 minutes.

Can you source that please?

Originally posted by Boone 870
Can you source that please?

I believe its in the 9/11 commission report, staff statment 17.

reply to post by ULTIMA1


The 9/11 Commission says that it never disappeared from FAA radars with the exception of Indianapolis Center and that was for only eight minutes and 13 seconds.

But for 8 minutes and 13 seconds, between 8:56 and 9:05, this primary radar information on American 77 was not displayed to controllers at Indianapolis Center.142 The reasons are technical, arising from the way the software processed radar information, as well as from poor primary radar coverage where American 77 was flying.

Originally posted by Boone 870
reply to post by ULTIMA1

 

The 9/11 Commission says that it never disappeared from FAA radars with the exception of Indianapolis Center and that was for only eight minutes and 13 seconds.

But for 8 minutes and 13 seconds, between 8:56 and 9:05, this primary radar information on American 77 was not displayed to controllers at Indianapolis Center.142 The reasons are technical, arising from the way the software processed radar information, as well as from poor primary radar coverage where American 77 was flying.

Hmmm who supplied this software to the FAA and military?

PTECH, 9/11, and USA-SAUDI TERROR
PART II

PROMIS Connections to Cheney Control of
9/11 Attacks Confirmed

The FAA & Ptech
Debriefed by Secret Service - looking for a PROMIS
Muslim Brotherhood, Christian Cultists, and Nazis
by

Michael Kane

© Copyright 2005, From The Wilderness Publications, www.fromthewilderness.com. All Rights Reserved. May be reprinted, distributed or posted on an Internet web site for non-profit purposes only.

"I believe that Dick Cheney also had the ability using evolutions of the PROMIS software, to penetrate and override any other radar computer or communications system in the government."

- Mike Ruppert, in "Summation: Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury," from Crossing The Rubicon, p.592

[At the heart of our story is a program (we'll call it Ptech, after the company that produced it) that combines artificial intelligence, datamining, and "interoperability," the capacity for one program to read, operate, and modify the source codes of other programs. The computational power of the Ptech evolution of PROMIS represents a daunting new surveillance-and-intervention capability in the hands of the same elites who planned 9/11, prosecute the subsequent resource wars, and are presiding over what may become a full economic and military disaster for the resource-consuming citizens of America and the world. Since the "War On Terror" and the coming dollar/fossil fuel collapse will necessitate new levels of domestic repression, this is just the capability those elites require. Ptech is the functional equivalent of Total Information Awareness.

Read more here....www.fromthewilderness.com...

Ptech is Israeli owned.

[edit on 29-3-2008 by IvanZana]

Originally posted by Boone 870
The 9/11 Commission says that it never disappeared from FAA radars with the exception of Indianapolis Center and that was for only eight minutes and 13 seconds.

Thats not quite right.

Staff Statement 17,

In addition, while the Command Center learned Flight 77 was missing, neither it nor FAA headquarters issued an “all points bulletin” to surrounding centers to search for primary radar targets. American 77 traveled undetected for 36 minutes on a course heading due east for Washington, DC.

[edit on 29-3-2008 by ULTIMA1]

reply to post by IvanZana


Oh great. It wur teh JOO0OOS. What a typical response from you.

Please provide a source stating that the Pentagon is the most protected building on earth.

How about correcting your mistake regarding PAVE PAWS?

Do you have a source stating that the military bases flight 77 overflew had sophisticated radars?

Why did a Cessna 150 crash on the White House lawn if it is one of the most protected buildings on earth?

reply to post by ULTIMA1


You stated earlier that it went completely off radar for 36 minutes, there is a difference between undetected and being completely off of radar.

Do you see the difference?

reply to post by Boone 870



I think you should be banned for even trying to accuse me of being anti-semitic. Not once in my threads have I blamed the Jewish people, they are a religion. I am a Jewish you ignorant .....

Israel is a country. Israeli company made the software for the FAA.

That old tactic of bashing the good jewish people of what the terrorist state of Israel does is a sign of complete and utter lack of intelligence. Boone?


Now back to facts. Israel help 911 happen, are you happy? not the jews, israel.

[edit on 29-3-2008 by IvanZana]

Originally posted by Boone 870
You stated earlier that it went completely off radar for 36 minutes, there is a difference between undetected and being completely off of radar.

Ok, but the point is that it was still off radar. How did the hijacker know how to avoid the radar, its not something you can program into the autopilot?

No it WASN'T off radar. Not being tracked means that the controllers didn't notice it at the time because they were tracking it by skin paint. Off radar would be that it wasn't on ANY radar screen. It was ON the screen, just that they weren't seeing it because it didn't have the transponder data to go with it.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
No it WASN'T off radar.

Yes it was actually off radar for several minutes, it was not noticed for several more minutes aftrer it came back on radar becasue it had changed direction.

Yes, it was off radar for a little over 8 minutes. The rest of the time that you are claiming it was off radar it was NOT off radar. It wasn't tracked. There's a HUGE difference between not being tracked and being off radar.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
Yes, it was off radar for a little over 8 minutes.

But the point is that IT WAS OFF RADAR, and then not tracked.

So again how did the hijacker know how to aviod the radar ?

[edit on 29-3-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Oh let's see.....Luck? Knowing that Secondary radar systems only work above 18,000 and primary radars make it much harder to track planes, and planning to make it harder to be tracked, and getting lucky that they went off radar for a few minutes? Nah, couldn't be that. It HAS to be a conspiracy!

Originally posted by Zaphod58
Oh let's see.....Luck?

Oh yes, right. The hijacker just happened to be able to avoid the radar ok.

Gee the terrorosit sure had lady luck on their side that day, avoiding radar, avoiding NORAD, doing things that even experienced pilots would have a hard time doing.

Oh and since when is looking for the truth a conspiracy?

[edit on 29-3-2008 by ULTIMA1]

[edit on 29-3-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Well most if not all civilian radar for tracking planes is ground based, right? And if it's angled upward, if you fly low enough you go out of view, surely?

And when considering the difficulty of tracking it, when you have about 50 or more planes to coordinate at the same time, which all have their transponders working, one primary return is going to be a bit hard to notice, surely?

I second the question though. Regardless, of how long off the radar, there was a point where it was *OFF*.

Now, how did the hijacker manage that?