Alien Abduction and Contactees: A new religion?

Originally posted by telepath
Atlas,

This is a great thread and I hope to see it gain more attention. For thousands of years humans have tended to spritualize things they do not understand. I think the majority of people in New Age Cults are being mislead. I think some are sincere about this, however, people are getting fleeced.


[edit on 29-5-2008 by telepath]

Hey thanks telepath for bringing this thread back into the main, I had forgot how good it was

reply to post by telepath

thanks telepath for replying, and thanks for sharing your personal experience. I am still reading alot of material on this subject and i was hoping people like yourself would share their own thoughts and experiences so we can all learn from these growing beliefs and experiences.

Originally posted by prevenge
I think you're making this incredibly more complex than what it is.
yes, It's a good brain-jog to parse all the possibilities of what convoluted machination of the psyche could bring out this exact same experience in hundreds of thousands of people.
That's all good and fun for a thurs night forum chat..

Thanks for your reply prevenge, i am disappointed however that you dismiss this thread as a bit of lame Thursday night forum fun. If you could be a little more specific with your criticism it might help improve the thread.

About 25 percent of people around the world have experienced it, and about 5 percent get the whole show of sight, sound, tactile hallucinations, and abduction.

www.hno.harvard.edu...
I put this quote, about sleep paralysis(which has been observed and documented far more concretely than AAE), to show you that infact there is some sound rationale to explain the incidence of alien abduction experience. I think you should read this article as the author also states...

"You can't disprove alien abductions. All you can do is show that evidence is insufficient to justify the belief, and try to understand why people have those beliefs."

I think trying to understand is worthy of a Thursday night chat forum. Why do so many other people say they believe in God?, why do many people believe they have lived many lives?......if frequency of a belief is grounds for proof of its existence than our spiritual and physical reality is purely a popularity contest, which is sad to say the least.

What this researcher also says, that i believe implies a striking similarity to religious belief and behaviour, is this.

"It probably doesn't matter much to the abductees whether they are right or wrong," she comments. "They simply feel better because of what they believe."

Further more, after releasing her findings and beliefs, guess what happened to her. Thats right, hate mail, threats, abuse. Sound familiar. Religious fanatics upset at the blasphemy of science questioning a personal belief?

As you might guess, the people behind all that hate mail and the phone calls don't buy that. They were there, she wasn't, they insist.

that these hundreds of thousands of people are not taking the risk of ruining their lives and acting all dramatic making up the exact same story, to appease some subconscious religious need or masochistic self destructive drive.

I think if you read all my posts, i do bring up thoughts on this. You have to understand that the search to understand an experience, in this case alien abduction, isn't purely religious. What we see in life is that we often take on beliefs that explain experiences in life, and that these beliefs have evolved within the context of our cultures. That these beliefs and sources that cannot be proven, are religions. The Jews had their lives ruined because of their beliefs, so to the early Christians, Muslims, Pagans...etc etc. Your explanation is not what we have observed through history when we look at people holding to a belief even when that belief is unaccepted as a cultural norm. Which is more often than not detrimental to that individual.

It's quite simple. It's happening exactly as they're saying it happens.
Things that look like what appear non-humans are interacting with them.
World wide.
There are just TOO many reports by hundreds of thousands of regular hard working, honest and loving people.

Here is a quote from a site you should check out.

Still, readers must be skeptical of what I say and of what all others say in this tangled arena of alien abductions, hypnosis, popular culture, and memory. Abduction researchers are mainly amateurs doing their best to get to the truth knowing that objective reality may elude them.
David M. Jacobs, Ph.D.

www.ufoabduction.com...

people scoffed at people going through what's been termed "morgellons syndrome" for
they were scoffed at, and ridiculed and called delusional..
And now the CDC......

Morgellons and alien abduction are two totally seperate topics. One is a disease, the other is a belief in an experience that is attributed to aliens. Morgellons is documented with physical evidence. Its genesis in many reports i have read indicate that GMO may be responsible. I think i linked one to your thread on this topic. I agree with you though on the medical and psychological neglect shown to sufferers of morgellons. It won't be the last time this happens. People are taking Alien Abductions seriously. If you take the time and effort to look you will find many, many studies and published works from many fields looking for answers to this phenomena. You comparison is unfair and the only similarity is that people are sceptical in medical profession until overwhelmed by solid evidence. Which we see with the existence of morgellons, but not with Alien Abduction experiences.

that you personally think so little of the human race and have been shown the horrors of humanity daily, that you literally cannot, under any circumstances, believe that this is actually happening, and you'd rather persecute the individuals ..(however cushioningly) by hypothesizing that they are actually being completely delusional, possibly on purpose.

So what you are basically saying is that you can question what i believe(and therefore also what i don't) but that i cannot do that. Tht you can also use the expression of my belief as the basis of my character, a character that as you put it..."thinks little of the human race.......would rather persecute the individuals....". You can attack me personally, i am cool with that. Matters of personal beliefs and religious nature often turn ugly, it is sadly part of the horror you mention above, and i hadn't encountered that today until i read your post. If you can offer some more substantial material relating to your above comment that would be even better.

I believe the rest of your reply implies that its everybody else that should be looked at. But you know what, they have, because they believe in stuff to, they just don't believe in Aliens. Although many people have experiences that are very similar to Alien Abduction experiences ,they just prescribe a different cause to it. I am simply asking a valid question. Thanks

Hi

Well I know since I broke away from "group thinking" and have made my own decisions on the great ascension debat everything has become so much clearer for me. ( ET abduction is very much a part of ascension and the two need to be linked)

This is a difficult area because chanellers can provide us with so much information, however I do believe they have a responsability to mankind to give us this information correctly. They should tell us the truth, not ram it down our necks, and they should then let us make our own minds up in our own time.

I trust the quiter chanellers who tell you only once you have realized the truth anyway. They do not tell you the truth they confirm it. The truth is better to be found by yourself and not in religious groups or gangs. How do we find the truth...we just go and look for it and it will find us.

Once you have found an answer you will know it is the truth because your heart tells you so. Your heart does not lie to you and as long as you follow this the truth will be found within you.

[edit on 30-5-2008 by Mr Green]

Originally posted by Mr Green


Once you have found an answer you will know it is the truth because your heart tells you so. Your heart does not lie to you and as long as you follow this the truth will be found within you.

[edit on 30-5-2008 by Mr Green]

Thanks MG,

Great post. thanks for sharing this. This is fundamentally a core principle that we all have and see in others and we more often than not attribute this to spiritual or religious ideology and beliefs. The fact that you get this from your experiences further highlights my belief of its religious nature. We than agree that we all have our own beliefs, but then we find people that have similar beliefs and experiences and we share and grow together. We let these beliefs guide us, these beliefs become religion...some spread, grow.....some don't. I think many people are afraid of the religious characterisation when we include the belief in aliens and alien abductions. As this belief is influenced by science and technology which people characterise as being opposed to religion. Where i am arguing that we may be just updating our older beliefs with this new influence. Thanks again MG.

reply to post by atlasastro


Hi

Yes your so right, we can search for answers and talk our findings over with others who have experienced alien abduction but we should not join with these people in new or old religious groups.

Search, talk and discuss by all means but do let it become your new religion and take over your life. Make the final decision your self. Becoming too quickly joined to your new religion will hide the truth from you.

No alien abduction should ever lead to a new religious belief in anyone.

reply to post by Mr Green

www.timesonline.co.uk... here is something of interest to the topic. imagine if they announced that inot AAE, there would be outrage.

I know exactly what you mean MG. But unfortunately we see this already happening, as it has with many other, if not all, religions. Scientology, just to mention one.

Here is a quote i have seen numerous times from Alien Abduction experiencers

i can see things that many people cant, not as in spirits or the supernatural world, but rather i can see life, i can see how people truely are, how they were and how they will be in the future, not psychickly but rather just knowing

This is a reply to the article above. You know what the person was talking about. God.



What i think is also significant to this thread and some of the replies( prevengeis this view.

Professor Trigg, a senior research Fellow at Oxford and author of Religion in Public Life: Must Faith be Privatised?, said: “Religion has played an important role in public life over the past few years and the debate about the origin of religion, and how it fits into the human mind, has intensified. This study will not prove or disprove any aspect of religion.”

We see the same result when modern science looks at Alien Abduction experience. The study of it rarely disproves the experience from the individuals perspective, even when presented with solid scientific explanations. It is funny that science tells us that alien life is possible, we then incorporate this into our belief system, but then ignore the same science when it explains an experience that individuals attribute to Aliens. Now that is what i call a beautifully religious conundrum.

[edit on 30-5-2008 by atlasastro]

reply to post by atlasastro


We see the same result when modern science looks at Alien Abduction experience. The study of it rarely disproves the experience from the individuals perspective, even when presented with solid scientific explanations. It is funny that science tells us that alien life is possible, we then incorporate this into our belief system, but then ignore the same science when it explains an experience that individuals attribute to Aliens. Now that is what i call a beautifully religious conundrum.

Yes how very true this is. We cant have it both ways.

Here is some more interesting cultural influences when looking at the AAEC phenomena. Susan Clancy again looking in depth into the experiences of people, and what might cause or help explain aspects of these experiences.

Another theme running through the book is the idea of the alien-abduction scenario as a cultural script. Clancy argues that the “the common features of the alien-abduction stories . . . are not evidence for validity” but rather come from “shared cultural knowledge.” She notes that alien-abduction claims are mainly limited to North America, and that alien abduction reports did not begin until after “they were featured on TV and in the movies.” In particular, Clancy maintains that the first North American alien abduction report, the Betty and Barney Hill case, bears a striking resemblance to the plot of an episode of The Outer Limits, down to the physical description of the extraterrestrials, as well as to the plot of the movie Invaders from Mars. Betty Hill, who was a flying saucer aficionado, had seen both shows. In fact, a common element in the development of abduction memories is a prior interest in alien abductions. That is, abductees already know what is supposed to happen to them before their first episode of sleep paralysis or hypnotic regression, and so the emotional events they experience are easily molded into a standard alien-abduction script.

www.csicop.org...

I believe Susan Clancy is highlighting a conditioning of people who may have a certain personality type, predisposing individuals to experiences that they then attribute to a culturally accepted cause. This cause previously would have been attributed to older more traditional religious sources, but given the increasing influence of science and technology suggesting the possible existence of ET life, we see these cultural influences updating the explanation for these experiences as one of ET origin.

The findings that connected alien contact or abduction memories with people more prone to fantasy thought is extremely questionable. Did they first study a large random sample of the public, ie. thousands, to determine how they thought and then spend years taking in the random experiences of these individuals? For some reason I don't believe that is how the study was performed. If it was done after the experiences occurred then how fantasy prone the persons thinking became could not be ruled out as being directly related to unusual events (ie. actual alien abduction) occurring and transforming the way they thought. Experiences do actually change us.

As for myself, with regards to the numerous sightings our family has had, and an actual sighting of a grey as a child, before I'd ever encountered any idea like that in any form of media (in fact, only recently with pictures of greys on the internet did I confirm what I had seen). And a memory. In the end, nothing has changed my spiritual beliefs, I've had them since my preteen years, after reading scripture and thinking things out. In time my more traditional Christian beliefs turned into a blend of that and gnostic thought. I'm really not interested in a static religion where everything that we ever need to know is contained in an ancient manuscript with norms and dictates that don't comply with the situations of modern people. So while I still like certain parts of the new testament, I am new age, gnostic and on a personal journey of discovery. This is just me, not related to any experiences or memories. How can an abduction dictate a faith? Et is a corporal being, and therefore isn't a spiritual authority at all! Though I'm delighted to discover the more positive human types, I still don't allow my faith to be dictated in any capacity.

[edit on 20-8-2008 by mystiq]

Originally posted by mystiq
The findings that connected alien contact or abduction memories with people more prone to fantasy thought is extremely questionable.

First of all, thanks for your reply. Can you please explain the questionable elements of these studies. And please be specific about which study your are referring too, as i have linked at least three, i have also linked other Alien Abduction sites that address this issue and they have there own studies. Have you read all three studies?

Did they first study a large random sample of the public, i.e.. thousands, to determine how they thought and then spend years taking in the random experiences of these individuals?

Ok, so now it is clear you have not read the studies you have already deemed questionable! And by the way, these studies are not about random experiences, they are about specific experiences, specific claims of alien abduction and contact. So your point on random experiences has nothing to do with the study, as random experiences could mean anything. Read the studies, one concentrates on a small group, the other are referencing more numbers, Susan Clancy has selected a large cross section. It should also interest you that the estimations of incidence(estimated to be millions of people in the USA alone) was based on small group studies, Like Roper.....so there are many questionable elements to these numbers and estimations. If you are inferring that we need a massive cross section to study, then we also need to re-evaluate the estimations of people experiencing AAEC, which would totally remove these estimates from the arguments put forth by those who believe in ET and use these estimates of millions of Alien Abductions to support their beliefs. Somehow i doubt many people who believe in ET find these estimates questionable, as they support there beliefs.

For some reason I don't believe that is how the study was performed.

Please explain the "some reason" as it would be great to discuss these studies and these topics with a more solid frame of reference other than "some reason". Once again, the study is of the Alien Abduction Experience, In the vast majority of these experiences the only information is sourced from the person claiming to have had the experience, that person attributes that experience to aliens, these studies are looking at the experience and what other possible explanations there may be, especially as there are no "aliens" or any other evidence of aliens to directly attribute these experiences too. If you have a better way of conducting it would make the thread better if you would share it.

If it was done after the experiences occurred then how fantasy prone the persons thinking became could not be ruled out as being directly related to unusual events (i.e.. actual alien abduction) occurring and transforming the way they thought. Experiences do actually change us.

Let me address your first question. Of course the study was done after the experiences. If we could witness the abductions we would not be here discussing alternative explanations as there would be overwhelming evidence that aliens were abducting these people, at the moment we do not have this evidence and so must wait for the personal testimonies of those who believe they have had an experience. I find your first comment slightly ridiculous, and poorly thought out. Your second comment is exactly what this study finds, that those prone to fantastical thinking are more likely to claim alien abduction, it is not that because they believe in alien abduction, they are fantasy prone. At least two of the studies looks at psychologically profiling individuals, when a pattern emerged that the vast majority of those claiming to have AAEC fell into a specific group this was considered significant and a possible cause. This is generally how most studies or research is done. While it has flaws, and without any other solid evidence of aliens abducting people other than personal testimony, it is all we have.

As for myself, with regards to the numerous sightings our family has had, and an actual sighting of a grey as a child, before I'd ever encountered any idea like that in any form of media (in fact, only recently with pictures of greys on the internet did I confirm what I had seen). And a memory. In the end, nothing has changed my spiritual beliefs, I've had them since my preteen years, after reading scripture and thinking things out. In time my more traditional Christian beliefs turned into a blend of that and Gnostic thought. I'm really not interested in a static religion where everything that we ever need to know is contained in an ancient manuscript with norms and dictates that don't comply with the situations of modern people.

Thank you for sharing your personal experiences and feelings. Your story is similar to many others i have encountered, as I am sure others have shared similar stories to you. When you say sightings, are you referring to UFO. As UFO stands for Unidentified Flying Objects. Not Unidentified Flying Objects that have Aliens in them that we observe abducting people. Sorry if this sounds a bit condescending, but there is a huge leap of faith in between seeing a UFO and believing in what is controlling it, and then another leap in attributing AAE to these same UFO. There those words again, Belief and Faith.

So while I still like certain parts of the new testament, I am new age, Gnostic and on a personal journey of discovery.

All the best to you, and i hope your journey is a fulfilling one.

This is just me, not related to any experiences or memories. How can an abduction dictate a faith? Et is a corporal being, and therefore isn't a spiritual authority at all!

I believe you should look further into the Alien Abduction Experience. Look over the firsts two pages of this thread for starters. There are many, many links that highlight the spiritual aspects of these experiences and the resemblance to more traditional religious and spiritual phenomena.
When you say ET is a corporal being, why do we not have people with AAEc showing us any other evidence to support this?, why do the vast majority of AAEc occur without any UFO activity? Why do more and more mediums now claim to have contact with a superior alien race, where as traditionally they were spirits?
People experience spiritual changes after having these experiences, many contactees claim that they have a mission, or message to spread. The list goes on, and on. The fact that there is no definitive proof of ET to attribute these experiences to places these ET's along side the likes of God, Spirits, demons, Angels......people believe that these also, based on a personal experiences and/or contact.....and as we have no definitive proof that they exist we call a belief in these a faith, religion.....can you not see the similarities. What about the groups that have grown purely on the claims of a persons Alien Influence or Contact experiences, Scientology, Raelism, Aetherius Society, Heavens Gate, Unarius, Galactic federation. This is exactly how religions grow. All these have traits that promise the redemption or salvation of humanity or the individual via alien intervention or influence, but with no aliens to show, requiring a belief based on faith in an experience, now if you replace the word alien, with God, or A spirit, or an Angel.....you'd call that what? Religion. These are just a few examples of the religious nature and characteristics that we observe in relation to Alien abduction and contatee experiences.

Though I'm delighted to discover the more positive human types, I still don't allow my faith to be dictated in any capacity.

That is great. I am happy for you.
Thank you once again for contributing to the thread, and for sharing your own experiences and feelings.
Cheers.


[edit on 21-8-2008 by atlasastro]

Just dropped back into the thread to add some recent thoughts.

Just looking at some interesting stuff regarding Dan Wright from MUFONS Abduction Transcription project from 1992 to 1997.
This study was done on over 250 abductees and found some common characteristics regarding the Alien Agenda.
Here they are.

1. Reproduction, sperm and ova are removed, with the most common procedure the removal of ova. In some cases, embryo implants are made and/or aborted from female subjects.
2. Connection to the aliens or kinship, the subject reaches the conclusion of an innate connection with alien captors which transcends this lifetime as a human. The abductee feels like a fish out of water in their own family, or otherwise disconnected from humanity.
3. A mission, beings communicate to abductees that information is being planted in their minds which they'll later use, whether technical concepts, notions of some great contribution to society, human-alien liaisons, or other high-minded purposes.
4. Destruction of the earth, the subject is shown images of future events, often involving geophysical catastrophe. This save the planet theme has nearly replaced that of nuclear destruction from earlier cases. Some are led to believe they will be safe or otherwise removed from any earth disasters.
5. Government's involvement, the subject sees military or para-military personnel working alongside entities or is otherwise led to believe that the government is involved in working with alien entities.

www.atlantisrising.com...

Many of theses themes will be familiar to ATS members. Of significance to me is No.4. To me this is classic Axis Mundi phenomena regarding a prophecy that is revealed. That believers who commune with ET's accept and prepare for the prophecy, that they are central too, will over come, survive and prevail. This is a fundamental and common theme amongst all cultures and the myths and prophecies central to specific beliefs. I find it incredibly interesting that the Abduction phenomena and abductees would exhibit, what I believe is, Axis Mundi. Although, culturally, the prophecies revolving aound ET's to abductees, contactees etc has reflected contemporary fears like Nuclear War and Environmental disasters and have changed with the times.

Anyway, interesting stuff.

reply to post by atlasastro


Hi

You know what, I think as long as these New Age Alien beliefs DONT actually harm anyone, use mind control or manipulation I think they are a good thing. I think this because they encourage us to start thinking out of the box, they open our mind and make us think. Maybe by doing this an individuals inner self will be awakened and in the end will eventually find the right path.

I know this has happened with me. Ive followed some crazy stuff in my time but it did serve to open my awarness to other possibilities, then as I become more aware I started to question things more.

A belief in aliens is possibly a sort of religion, but at least it is a belief. It may not be the truth but its a start on the long road to self awarness and self truth.

Originally posted by Mr Green
reply to post by atlasastro

 

Hi

You know what, I think as long as these New Age Alien beliefs DONT actually harm anyone, use mind control or manipulation I think they are a good thing.

No doubt MG, I think we could apply this to all beliefs. What I like about the belief is that we look outside of ourselves and the earth a bit more and ponder the infinite possibilities. I think that is great.

I think this because they encourage us to start thinking out of the box, they open our mind and make us think. Maybe by doing this an individuals inner self will be awakened and in the end will eventually find the right path.

Spot on, I think it is also a great new way to look at all the tired and old dogma that gets thrown our way. I think it helps us challenge traditional beliefs and adds a bit more motivation to contemplate some other interesting options in life.

I think it is also a great way of generating new interest in our existence where stale old and traditional doctrines have lost that ability to inspire wonder, in the west particularly.

I know this has happened with me. Ive followed some crazy stuff in my time but it did serve to open my awarness to other possibilities, then as I become more aware I started to question things more.

Exactly, so in that way these new beliefs are great. I guess on the flip side, as with all beliefs, there are those that will use it to their own end and exploit those thirsty for knowledge. We see it everywhere unfortunately. But again, with a belief in Aliens we can examine the flaws in traditional beliefs and identify those flaw in a belief in Aliens and help clarify the system of belief, its inspiration and potential to help us understand ourselves, each other and the universe.

A belief in aliens is possibly a sort of religion, but at least it is a belief. It may not be the truth but its a start on the long road to self awarness and self truth.

Wise words MG.

That is the point out of my thread in a way. We all need a starting point in any journey, be that spiritual or any other.
I believe this emerging and growing belief will give many people a newer, more acceptable starting point when we compare it to the traditional and more abstract beliefs that I believe are not as scientifically and technologiaclly compatable. As it is more contemporary, as it appears more possible and plausible within our society.

Thanks for your reply MG.
I means alot to me that you continue to share your thoughts and experiences in this thread.

[edit on 13-7-2009 by atlasastro]

I wasn't a member when this thread started, so I missed it first time around. Anyway it has been interesting reading the posts.
But I think the OP is trying to make something fit, that isn't quite there.

All abductees / contactees have seen and experienced et's.
Each person has their own personal experiences, which happen to tie up. So you have lots of witnesses all testifying the same thing.

Have all Christians seen and experienced Jesus, no that is why they need faith. The flock follow their religious leaders and need instruction on their thoughts and actions.

The worst thing that could happen is that a contactee starts a religion, but the let's do try and prevent this from happening.

Originally posted by lightchild
I wasn't a member when this thread started, so I missed it first time around. Anyway it has been interesting reading the posts.
But I think the OP is trying to make something fit, that isn't quite there.

Well, thanks for joining in anyway. Better late than never.
As for making it fit, I believe we are seeing a "new" religion growing. So it may not fit if you have a narrow view of religion.

re⋅li⋅gion  [ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA
–noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp.

We see people attributing the creation of Humans as being the work of Et's.

when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Usually is a word here asociated with observing the rituals and devotions of traditional religions, as I have stated, the belief is NEW and there are some ET beliefs that have these, so usual characteristics may not apply given that it is the cultural influence of two other extremely modern factors that are, IMHO, aiding in promoting this belief. These two other influences are science and technology.

2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

We see when we look at groups like Ashtar Command and the Galactic Confederation of Light, Terra Papers, Book of Urantia, Raelism and others. All have similar beliefs all revolving around the same theme, that being ET's. All have extremely important links to contatctees(via various methods like direct contact, mediums) to explain the belief.

3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.

At the moment this does not fit. As the belief has not reached a critical point. That being it is culturally acceptable to defer to this type of supranatural beings, where as the vast majority of people readily accept those that defer to and believe in God, or Allah, Buddah or Krishna etc. etc.

4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.

Scientology has members that commit themselves to Service. In fact Scientology is the only New religious belief to emerge in the 20th Century. All though it is not accepted as a religion in many countries. I believe it is more the buisness aspect of the group that prevents it from gaining acceptance as a religion.

5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.

Will we see these ritual emerge? Well Yes, they are here now. In Scientology we have people going through the process(ritual?) of "Clearing". Also, Abductees regularly meet in groups to discuss and share the meaning and relevance of their experiences. In some cases Abductees will meet to spread a message or an inspiration given to them from their experiences, as do contactees. Raelisms, has a church, has a bishop named Brigitte Boisselier, and even have prefered view on marriage that they deem non-contractual arrangements. Raelism also has a rite of intiation(think baptism) called the Transmission of the Cellular Plan. They have updated the belief of Jesus Christs resurection to that being a cloned version of Jesus by technologically advances beings called the Elohim. See, there is science and technology again, informing and updating older traditional beliefs.
-idiom

a. to acquire a deep conviction of the validity of religious beliefs and practices.

We can see these deep convictions right here on ATS, and members have even been brave and kind enough to share them on this thread.

b. to resolve to mend one's errant ways: The company got religion and stopped making dangerous products.

Ever here people say they have awakened, are now aware of ET and an Alien presence. Did these people get "religion" and mend thier errant "sheeple ways".

]All abductees / contactees have seen and experienced et's.
Each person has their own personal experiences, which happen to tie up. So you have lots of witnesses all testifying the same thing.

Yes. But it is the same for other religions. We can find a plethora of personal testimonies in other beliefs.

Have all Christians seen and experienced Jesus, no that is why they need faith. The flock follow their religious leaders and need instruction on their thoughts and actions.

I can find you many examples of people who claimed they have seen him, been contacted by him or recieved a miracle from him from an experience. In fact, red the New Testament. It is full of personal testimonies on Jesus. Those that follow without experiences are no different to those that form a belief in Alien Abduction experiences just from people claiming they are having those experiences. We see people using the Alien Abduction experiences and Testimonies of Contactees and proof or a reason to believe in ET's. Those that do this place "faith" in those testimonies and experiences.

The worst thing that could happen is that a contactee starts a religion, but the let's do try and prevent this from happening.

To late dude. Its way to late for that. I agree that if we follow the example of other traditional religions it can't be good for anyone. We are already seeing people manipulated, brainwashed and used by organised beliefs that are centre around a belief in Aliens. That sounds exactly like a religion to me.

Thank you for your thoughts and reply.





[edit on 15-7-2009 by atlasastro]

I think either I don't understand your OP or we will have to agree to disagree because.

1. How many contactees / abductees follow any organised religion let alone Scientology?

2. Where did you get your definition for "religion" from?

From
Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary - Religion

1: a: the state of a religious
b (1): the service and worship of God or the supernatural
(2): commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3: archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

So starting at the top
1 a) Not relevant

1 b) Service and Worship - Most people don't worship aliens

2 There is no institute or practices. Possibly a personal set of attitudes.

3 Not relevant

4 Many abductees have seen ufos and aliens therefore there is no belief or faith. It is fact.

3. From your previous post

I can find you many examples of people who claimed they have seen him, been contacted by him or received a miracle from him from an experience. In fact, red the New Testament. It is full of personal testimonies on Jesus. Those that follow without experiences are no different to those that form a belief in Alien Abduction experiences just from people claiming they are having those experiences. We see people using the Alien Abduction experiences and Testimonies of Contactees and proof or a reason to believe in ET's. Those that do this place "faith" in those testimonies and experiences.

But the percentages are very different.
How many Christians have actually seen Jesus compared with the number of Christians?
How many contactees / abductees have actually seen UFOs and aliens?

I have spoken with its about religion and God. The group I spoke to do believe in God and do not like religions and do not want to be worshipped.

reply to post by lightchild

1 b) Service and Worship - Most people don't worship aliens

Im afraid they do. I can mention the Galactic Federation and Ashtar Command for starters plus a load more.

www.luisprada.com...
www.paoweb.com...

The Galactic federation has many Alien members and it is quickly becoming a religion.

How many contactees / abductees follow any organised religion let alone Scientology?

LOTS. I have had first hand experience of how abductees get snaped up into "Alien religions" and believe me its a massive problem. There ARE organised alien religions and abductees especially are targeted to join them.




[edit on 15-7-2009 by Mr Green]

Originally posted by lightchild
I think either I don't understand your OP or we will have to agree to disagree because.

I believe it may be both.

1. How many contactees / abductees follow any organised religion let alone Scientology?

Did you even read my last reply? I mention other groups.

2. Where did you get your definition for "religion" from?

Sorry I got it from here- dictionary.reference.com...

Like I said you may have a narrow view of religion.

From
Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary - Religion

1: a: the state of a religious
b (1): the service and worship of God or the supernatural
(2): commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3: archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

So starting at the top
1 a) Not relevant Wrong. Raelism, Scientology both have traditional structures of worship in place as defined in YOUR definition. Again I actually pointed this out specifically in MY post. PLEASE READ my post again.

1 b) Service and Worship - Most people don't worship aliens

Wrong again. You pander to traditional ICONIC worship of deities where as in these newer beliefs the believer joins in the service of the group- again Ashtar, GFL, Scientology, Raelism, Hale Bopp all have this. The worship is in different ways, Scientology is throught the ritual of auditings to purify the acient soul etc, Raelism through the worship of the Elohim and science, Ashtar are commited to "missions" on earth, Hale Bopp worshiped the moment of transcendance to a higher being via a celestial event fortold through contact.
You need to stop think in narrow terms.

2 There is no institute or practices. Possibly a personal set of attitudes.

Wrong. Again.

3 Not relevant

Only to you. Whatever. Most alien Abductees tell the same story. The form groups. They Conform to culture and surrioundings. Spiritually mediums have conformed to the advances in knowledge and science, abductees too. In this I mean, historically claims of contact and abductions have been performed by aliens that originate only as far as science and technology allowed us to imagine the universe. As as knowledge has grown, so too has the distances and places from which ET's have originated. Conformity to the culture of science and technology. As thechnology has progresses so to has the influence of Aliens- when we made weapons like nuclera warheads, aliens messages seem to appear. Ecological problems-aliens seemed to mention these in contactees and abduction experiences. Genetic engineering. Only after mans advances do we now see this influence appears in the Alien myth set. Only after we discovered DNA and began to manipulate it does it appear in the ET/UFO culture.
Conscientiousness! Look at the plethora of contactee messages. They are all appealing for a conscientious shift in our ways. All the problems are obvious to us, so much so that we would not need aliens to point these problems out to us. Yet they prevail in many Abductee, Conatctee and Medium experiences.

4 Many abductees have seen ufos and aliens therefore there is no belief or faith. It is fact.

Wrong again. You are implying that UFO automatically equal aliens. Any UFO researcher worth a damn will tell you the UFO stands for UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECT. It does not stand for OBJECT WITH ALIENS IN IT. ALL abductees rely on personal testimony with little or now evidence to support their claim. You know this as well as I. Because we are argueing about it because the evidence is so subjective as to render it speculative and no where near factual.

3. From your previous post

I can find you many examples of people who claimed they have seen him, been contacted by him or received a miracle from him from an experience. In fact, red the New Testament. It is full of personal testimonies on Jesus. Those that follow without experiences are no different to those that form a belief in Alien Abduction experiences just from people claiming they are having those experiences. We see people using the Alien Abduction experiences and Testimonies of Contactees and proof or a reason to believe in ET's. Those that do this place "faith" in those testimonies and experiences.

But the percentages are very different.
How many Christians have actually seen Jesus compared with the number of Christians?
How many contactees / abductees have actually seen UFOs and aliens?

You just don't get it. There are many, many people who believe they have had religious experiences relating to GOD, JESUS, MARY- the Saints, Angels etc etc. Abductees are a NEW phenomena-IT IS NEW. So off course we will have more experiencers than believers because as it is not as OLD as Chritianity which has had 2000 years of people relating, sharing and spreading their experiences. We already see people basing a belief in ET's by accepting the experiences of Alien Abductions and Contactees.

I have spoken with its about religion and God. The group I spoke to do believe in God and do not like religions and do not want to be worshipped.

I have no Idea what you are talking about here. I can only assume that you some how think I am relating ET's to GOD and Christianity. I am not. I am basing my opinion on the RELIGIOUS nature of Abduction and Contactees.
I have often encountered people who get upset by the conotation implied because their own view of religion is negative or narrow.
I cannot help you with that.

At the moment I think this belief is more religious in nature that factual.
It may change.
We may discover something more.
Or learn something new.

Lets hope so, hey!

reply to post by Mr Green


I never knew this.

I thought GFL was just a load of woo woo hangers on and wannabees.
If this is the case, it could all end in tears, from what I've learnt this is one of the last things that ets want.