The Dream Ether and dream physics

Has anyone ever had the feeling that the "dreamland" (not area 51 ) is a real place in space time? Often times in my dreams I seem to notice though the rules of physics are much looser and don't always apply, there do still seem to be some rules.

For example it seems to me that there is an ether to the world around me in dreams and it often behaves like water. When I fly in a dream it's often like swimming in that there is a loose gravity field and I can make my way through the air by swimming as it were. The same often applies when I am being chased (it's like running under water) or I am trying to punch someone (the punch travels as though under water). I have noticed similar experieinces among other people so I am wondering if there is some sort of universal dreamworld physics laws. I am curious to know others thoughts and experiences. Cheers

I recently had a dream that went like this -

I woke up in the middle of the night with an uneasy feeling, almost scared. I got up to go to the toilet. There are stairs immediately outside my bedroom door. I opened the door to go to the toilet and something in the air was stopping me from passing through the doorway, like an invisible elasticity that prevented me from going any further, I felt terrified and it felt like there was a presence there so I ran as fast as I could in the dark back to my bed... Then I woke up for real, everything looked the same (which is strange as usually things are distorted or totally different to real places in the dream world). I needed the toilet but DID NOT attempt to go!

I think this may be the same kind of ether that you are talking of. Sometimes you can swim through it, sometimes it enables you to perform jumps that would be physically impossible in the real world and sometimes it is so thick it stops you from going anywhere at all.

[edit on 27-3-2008 by fiftyfifty]

Originally posted by fiftyfifty
I recently had a dream that went like this -

I woke up in the middle of the night with an uneasy feeling, almost scared. I got up to go to the toilet. There are stairs immediately outside my bedroom door. I opened the door to go to the toilet and something in the air was stopping me from passing through the doorway, like an invisible elasticity that prevented me from going any further, I felt terrified and it felt like there was a presence there so I ran as fast as I could in the dark back to my bed... Then I woke up for real, everything looked the same (which is strange as usually things are distorted or totally different to real places in the dream world). I needed the toilet but DID NOT attempt to go!

I think this may be the same kind of ether that you are talking of. Sometimes you can swim through it, sometimes it enables you to perform jumps that would be physically impossible in the real world and sometimes it is so thick it stops you from going anywhere at all.

[edit on 27-3-2008 by fiftyfifty]

Very interesting. So would you agree that there are some basic physical laws or at the very least physical properties to the dreamworld? I just don't feel convinced that the material that exists there is solely a product of our own mental constructs necessarily, though in the sense that a physical law could be broken perhaps there is a way to supercede that law. It's almost like the Matrix in my opinion in that the basic laws govern the physical (or metaphysical) movement but when adding consciousness those rules can be shifted to some extent. I would like to try some dream experiments to test the laws. It might be fun to have others try and replicate them as well. One might be to try dropping objects in the dreamworld to observe their movements and resistance, etc. though obviously I might have an inherit bias towards what would happen, thereby affecting the outcome...

I have often wondered about the dreamworld and how detailed scenarios can be manufactured in your mind in such a short space of time often bearing no relation to anything in your awake mind. I also often have thought's when I am in the shower which seem to be there in the background like conversations of other people. (I'm not crazy, they are just like passive conversations in the background in which I am not involved.. hard to explain!).I have often thought that this maybe some part of my mind tuning into another dimension of consciousness or maybe other nearby consciousnesses polluting my own?

There is so much we don't understand and nothing can be ruled out.

I wouldn't say that the dreamworld has universal physics, because I've encountered various forms of physics in different dreams. It's as if each dream has it's own set of rules which that particular reality follows. Sometimes the physics are so bizzare that I can't make sense of it upon awaking, and as a result the memory quickly fades away.

Some say that you can't change a light source or look at a clock in your dreams which you might consider "universal dream rules" but I disagree with that because I have no trouble looking at watches or switching lights on/off in my dreams.

I think you're right (and no you aren't crazy )

The big mystery according to science regarding dreams is the origin of them on a neural level. I believe the Pons seems to be where the dream signal originates though I have no definitve sources to back that up, I simply remember that from some college psych classes. The argument has always been (on the science side) that the dreams are a random firing sequence that we later give meaning to. However I personally believe they are of divine origin. Especially given precognitive dreams (of which I have had a few). As far as tuning into someone else's thoughts I believe this to be possible too. As though the energy of thoughts can be received by others across enormous spatial distances...

Originally posted by Kruel
I wouldn't say that the dreamworld has universal physics, because I've encountered various forms of physics in different dreams. It's as if each dream has it's own set of rules which that particular reality follows. Sometimes the physics are so bizzare that I can't make sense of it upon awaking, and as a result the memory quickly fades away.

Some say that you can't change a light source or look at a clock in your dreams which you might consider "universal dream rules" but I disagree with that because I have no trouble looking at watches or switching lights on/off in my dreams.

Funny you should mention that as not being able to turn on a light is common for me to not be able to do. I have noticed that I can read in dreams, however if I attempt to read the same thing twice it almost always changes form. This is particularly true if the sentence is long and complex. Sometimes words will stay the same but a paragraph or sentence will invariably change. Perhaps this has to do with the seperation of left and right brain. The left being more analytical and responsible for language while the right would be more responsible for the dream events and creation. Perhaps the two are particularly segregated during REM?

reply to post by thestateofnirvana

This is very interesting. When im in my dreams it never really felt like i was in water. It always felt like i was in real life and then i only realize it is a dream is when something completely imposible or highly unlikely happens. But i do like the idea of a "dreamland". I have always had a belief that when you dream you are in a different world much like our own but more stuff is possible, such as flying, ect.
Well that is my opinion.

I think it's possible that you're "somewhere" in your dreams.. You should look up Bruce Moen, and Robert Monroe.. Their Afterlife knowledge and theories give some insights into that kinda thing :-). I remember them saying in some of the lower "zones", it's where people who are dreaming, or on drugs are experiencing their thing. It's basically like, you make up the scenario yourself, but you're actually in full control, whether you realise it or not.

Haha, I recommend reading up on it. It's good to know, whether it's crap or not

I've had partial control in some of my dreams before.. like, for a minute or two, I'd realise I could do whatever the hell I wanted, without realising I was dreaming. Those are usually the times I can do extreme martial arts and run through the air

I've also had my Grandad come to me in a dream, and tell me that "Heaven is the essence of everything,". So, I think there's a little more to it, than people might realise.

[edit on 27-3-2008 by Alesanjin]

First off I'd like to say I understand what you mean fiftyfifty, I too have that "Conversation" eve's dropping in my mind, where its like I can hear a conversation between two people who I do not know, nor do I know where it's coming from. But I normally just kind of push it off as my mind being very vivid.

Next on the dream laws, I have had a similar conversation with my wife, about how dreams seem to have their own universal laws...

The ether portion I can't say that I have ever noticed but tonight I will be sure to look for it! As I have lucid dreams every night, I think because I often wake up in the middle of the night to get drink and go back to sleep.

An interesting thing I have noticed in dreams is that if I it is dark in the room in reality, it is more often than not dark in my dream as well... Like night, or a dark place, unless I am inside a structure and there is light already on. But I have never had to turn lights on or off. If it is light in the room in reality then my dream takes place during daytime... That is how it works for me.

Another interesting fact I have noticed, For me most of the things I have seen during the day slip their way into my dream, and I just think that is my sub conscience just unraveling the past day. However that's not even the interesting part, Most things I see in my dreams that are not from the day that just happened usually happen the following day.

I will give you an example, I went to Toronto for spring break. I had a dream I was in the subway with my wife and I was looking at a sign on the way. On this sign displayed "Paris" and some slogan or motto about having fun in Paris, and there was a picture of the Eiffel Tower. At that moment I was talking to my wife about how mad I was at her sister for telling us that Paris would be a horrible place to visit. When I awoke I told my wife about the dream, and she laughed. Later that day we visited a shop that sold vintage candy from the 80's and 90's that you wouldn't find at a regular store. Amongst all the varieties one in particular stood out like a sore thumb, those chocolate cigarettes in the little package. The significance was that on the cover for the package was the Eiffel tower and it stated "Paris" the same coulors and font as in my dream, So I purchased them....

But to conclude I do believe that all dreams follow some type of universal law that you mention such as the slow running and punching, flying and gliding. However my personal opinion is that these laws are manifested by our sub conscience to mock that of reality. We only bend them in our dream because we choose to do so. And if you remember as I do, When I was a child those laws didn't apply as much as they do now, and I think that is because as we age we are taught about these laws and therefore our minds make them real, as where when you are young you are naive to such happenings.

I would like to test something, if you see someone in your dream tonight you don't know quote "ATS" and perhaps it may be me or another ATS user. If it happens come back tomorrow and post what happens, we'll see if we can accomplish a dream meeting!!!!

Good thread! While I think it's more likely that 'dream-world physics' are related to our common desires to defy gravity or perform some other kind of superhuman trick, what you're suggesting has crossed my mind. Quite a bit recently.

I've had a few lucid dreams in my life. They don't often last long after I realize I'm dreaming, but one thing you describe is something I too have felt. In a few of these occasions, I realize that I'm dreaming, so I decide to just "go nuts" on the environment and the folks there. Now, in real life I am a totally laid-back, non-violent, non-confrontational type of guy. A lover, not a fighter. But my reasoning in the dream is akin to playing a video game - this is my dream - so these are my things and my people, to do with as I please. SO... I try to attack the first person I see. And no matter how hard I swing, by the time my fist connects, it's as if the guy is surrounded by an invisible, gelatinous force field, and I can barely tap him. Similarly, if I have a gun and try to shoot someone, the bullets do minimal damage, merely annoying my dream-foe.

A friend of mine suggested that 'something' ...whether it's my own subconscious, or perhaps the 'laws' which you speak of, is trying to tell me that I shouldn't try to punch people in my dreams. So now when this happens, instead of getting punchy, I try to fly. With moderate success, I might add. Though I'm not able to go very fast, I get the impression somehow that I could learn to.

RUNNING... I do feel this 'ether' when trying to run in my dreams. It's like trying to "run" in water (or Jell-o maybe). This next part is very curious though. Only one other person (my current roommate) has ever told me they do this in their dreams: Can't run on your feet? Use your hands! Like a gorilla! And then, boy do I really truck along! I can often feel the hot pavement or dirt on the palms or my hands, or my knuckles. I've always wondered if this was some sort of primal, instinctual memory that all primates and their descendants have.

So, back to your concept... Why would these laws exist? I can say without a doubt that I've had dreams about successfully carrying out acts of violence, but they weren't lucid. So the idea that I might actually be 'visiting' a place that's not exclusively created by my own mind, that might be populated (or visited) by other sentient beings is no longer something I can outrightly dismiss.

[edit - punctuation]

[edit on 3/28/2008 by Teratoma]

Ive had a few dreams like this. When i was 17, i dreamt i was in my garage, and went through our outside garbage wooden cabinet, opened it, and the sjy was deep deep black. Thier was high upper atmospheric wind,adn i felt evil around me. ALl the sudden, their was a gold pyrimid in front of me, and lightining off in the distance. That was facin northeast. I loked north, standing up, and saw an old mans face in the sky, tlaking up almost a quarter of the sky, hazzy eyes, LONG white umanaged hair, whit beard, his mouth was open. Then i woke up. About a month later, i dreamt i was at bottom of my driveway, and a big green snake, was coiled around, and defending agianst an orange Spider, kinda like a tarantula.
Last dream i felt adn would swear was real, was 4 months ago, i wa standin on a wooden boardwalk, over a body of water,.... VERY peaceful around me, not to hot or cold, kinda like i was in a cleand up swamp. The bridge, had rope holding it up, like the bridges used to cross canyons and cliffs. Thier was samll city of somewhat built their, all made of wood, grass hut roofs. An old man, thin, smiling, dresed in some kinda army outfit, unbuttoned and not ready for the day look, with sunglasses on, was stanidng in front of me. Next i w foudn myself sitting on edge of his bed, and he was now, naked with underwear on, and his eyes loked like thye were about to bleed, he loked like he lodt an amazing amount of weight in seconds, he was shaking all over. I started to cry, emotionaly, becuase i wnated to help him... but felt and knew, he was goin to die. I woke up, and had tears coming out of my eyes.
But i swore, and swore, i was really thier. I was so lost when i woke up.

Originally posted by parry noid

An interesting thing I have noticed in dreams is that if I it is dark in the room in reality, it is more often than not dark in my dream as well... Like night, or a dark place, unless I am inside a structure and there is light already on. But I have never had to turn lights on or off. If it is light in the room in reality then my dream takes place during daytime... That is how it works for me.

Well that is interesting. I can't say the same goes for me but perhaps since (it sounds like) you are a light sleeper- getting up frequently, that you are much more tuned into the material world during your sleep which might impact the levels of light you are perceiving

But to conclude I do believe that all dreams follow some type of universal law that you mention such as the slow running and punching, flying and gliding. However my personal opinion is that these laws are manifested by our sub conscience to mock that of reality. We only bend them in our dream because we choose to do so. And if you remember as I do, When I was a child those laws didn't apply as much as they do now, and I think that is because as we age we are taught about these laws and therefore our minds make them real, as where when you are young you are naive to such happenings.

I would like to test something, if you see someone in your dream tonight you don't know quote "ATS" and perhaps it may be me or another ATS user. If it happens come back tomorrow and post what happens, we'll see if we can accomplish a dream meeting!!!!

Unfortunately I did not have any lucid dreams last night to interact with any dream people, but I will definitely keep trying

Originally posted by Teratoma
Good thread! While I think it's more likely that 'dream-world physics' are related to our common desires to defy gravity or perform some other kind of superhuman trick, what you're suggesting has crossed my mind. Quite a bit recently.

I've had a few lucid dreams in my life. They don't often last long after I realize I'm dreaming, but one thing you describe is something I too have felt. In a few of these occasions, I realize that I'm dreaming, so I decide to just "go nuts" on the environment and the folks there. Now, in real life I am a totally laid-back, non-violent, non-confrontational type of guy. A lover, not a fighter. But my reasoning in the dream is akin to playing a video game - this is my dream - so these are my things and my people, to do with as I please. SO... I try to attack the first person I see. And no matter how hard I swing, by the time my fist connects, it's as if the guy is surrounded by an invisible, gelatinous force field, and I can barely tap him. Similarly, if I have a gun and try to shoot someone, the bullets do minimal damage, merely annoying my dream-foe.

A friend of mine suggested that 'something' ...whether it's my own subconscious, or perhaps the 'laws' which you speak of, is trying to tell me that I shouldn't try to punch people in my dreams. So now when this happens, instead of getting punchy, I try to fly. With moderate success, I might add. Though I'm not able to go very fast, I get the impression somehow that I could learn to.

I would definitely reccomend to be peaceful. I have come to (over the years) accept the people in my dreams as real people. Often they don't behave like real people and I can see your logic that they are your creation, however even in the most lucid of dreams I am often not able to control other people's actions, only the environment around me and myself. Also I have connected to others through dreams and whether or not it is their sub-conscious appearing to me or their actual soul-being, I feel like my actions can impact them in a very real way. Now if they are just figments of my imagination I still hold the belief that it is an aspect of myself so if I choose to act violently on that person, I am acting violence upon myself (my two cents). But it sounds like you are no longer in that state of mind so on to flying!

I have always had some degree of difficulty flying and it has always irked me (or made me jealous) that others can do it with such ease in their dreams. One particular lucid dream I had I was determined to fly. Usually my method of flight consists of running and jumping very high, swimming through the air as it were and slowly floating back down. Used to be I was terrified of the trip back down more than anything but over time that has started to fade to where I somewhat enjoy it now. But this particular dream I had I told myself I was determined to fly once I realized I was dreaming. So I took a big leap and slowly floated down. I tried again, same thing but a little higher. Finally I mustered all I could to see how high I could fly. As I was in the air and started to feel my descent, I felt a tug on my arms as though something was lifting me up. I was in the air much longer and just suspended by a force grabbing me by the wrists. I looked at my arms and saw red marks from the force (I believe it was God) that was holding me up. It wasn't painful but almost looked as though my arms had been burned with handmarks across my wrists!


Great responses by the way. I am trying to build a consensus here and it seems like a very universal thing in some regards. I know that nothing is definitive but I am interested to hear more, and thoughts as to why (if these aren't laws per se) these forces can act upon us especially in times of stressful dreams...

Originally posted by fiftyfifty
I opened the door to go to the toilet and something in the air was stopping me from passing through the doorway, like an invisible elasticity that prevented me from going any further, I felt terrified and it felt like there was a presence there so I ran as fast as I could in the dark back to my bed...

I had a similar experience in a dream last night actually...

I was trying to move forward but was having trouble... it was as if there was a force holding me back. I realized that this "force" was actually fear. Instead of becoming frozen with fear and waking up like I normally would in this case, I persisted and was eventually able to break though. I can't remember any other details unfortunately but it sounded similar to what you said so I thought I'd share.

Interesting signature. Is that a quote from Aldous Huxley? Thought I remember seeing that in Cleansing the Doors of Perception...

Originally posted by thestateofnirvana
Interesting signature. Is that a quote from Aldous Huxley? Thought I remember seeing that in Cleansing the Doors of Perception...

It might be, but I heard it in a song from Hallucinogen called '___'.

Originally posted by Kruel

I was trying to move forward but was having trouble... it was as if there was a force holding me back. I realized that this "force" was actually fear. Instead of becoming frozen with fear and waking up like I normally would in this case, I persisted and was eventually able to break though. I can't remember any other details unfortunately but it sounded similar to what you said so I thought I'd share.

I can't say I have ever experienced something like that. So you felt a physical force that stopped you both?

I had a strange dream last night. I've been thinking a lot about this subject recently and one of the things that I've consciously thought of was, "OK, if I can will myself to fly in a dream, why shouldn't I be able to will myself through the ground - like Buckaroo Banzai or Shadowcat from The X-Men?"

...So last night I'm dreaming and something clues me in on the fact that I'm dreaming. So I remember my conscious thought about trying to "phase" through the ground, and make an attempt. I fail. It just doesn't seem to work. What's interesting to note is that "I" am making dives at the dirt, and it's as solid as ever - yet it's not like I feel any pain. It's not like my physical self is attempting it either - I don't get on my knees and force my face into the ground - it's more like dream flying... I will myself at the ground but it stops me.

Also, though I realized I was dreaming and sort of took control - this didn't really feel like the other lucid dreams I had. I didn't really feel "in control", it felt more like I was still dreaming, and an element of the dream was that I realize I'm dreaming. Which doesn't surprise me at all, seeing as how much thought I've put into it along with reading threads like this here recently.

Another thing; when my attempts to go underground failed, I attempted to fly and wasn't able to. This also hints at this not having been an actual lucid dream.

Interesting topic, I have always had a fascination with dreams, and I am convinced there is something very real about them, and not just a part of our imaginations.

With regards to these 'dream laws of physics', I think this is something that is very common, everyone I have asked has said they encounter the same strange forces acting for or against them. I would love to know for sure what it all means!

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

This is a thread I started yesterday regarding dreams, not many replies so either it doesnt relate to many people or nobody is interested
May be of some form of interest to people.