Sterilise parents receiving government benefits, says Tory

reply to post by stumason



Have you seen "idiocracy" ? it could be the last intelligent movie made on Earth haha
here:




[edit on 26-3-2008 by sty]

reply to post by palehorse23



People, this isn't an issue in the United States. 1) the right to have children is a protected fundamental right. 2) the government can not give a benefit in exchange for giving up a Constitutionaly protected right.
This isn't my opinion on the topic, it is simply a fact.

Originally posted by MerigoldIt isn't a crime to be poor. It isn't a mental illness to be poor.

You're exactly right.

However, it should be a crime to abuse the system. It should be a crime to be a chronic breeder just to get increased welfare benefits. It should be considered mental illness that we still allow this abuse to go on.

What's the busiest day at a bank? Welfare check day. Maybe we should force welfare checks into bank accounts, like states have done with unemployment benefits. In NY, your unemployment benefit is no longer paid via check -- it's deposited onto a debit card. You're forced to become more responsible with a government benefit. Man, what a nasty thought there...

i think the removal of financial incentives would be the biggest and best motivator, however it still does not stop the problem of excess breeding by a few.

i also know of a prime example of what people its aimed at:

one of my in laws and her hubby are not real bright, but hey i dont hold that against them.
however their son was also not real bright but was told to do extra studies, but the parents always let him off with "oh he shouldnt have to do extra".
any time he had enough of school, he'd sit on the school oval and his parents would get a call to come take him home where his parents allow him to play playstation instead. (oh why should we punish him, he dont like school so we wont make him stay there!)

when he was 13 we were having a normal chat and one thing i asked is what he'd like to do when he left school.

his reply? "oh mum says when im 15 i can quit school and get on the disability pension coz im not too bright, so then i dont ever have to work".

hes now about 18, and yep. you guessed it.. hes been on the disability pension since.
then, because they are low income they also get additional support (able to borrow 100% the homes value) to help them buy their own home while i know of other hard working family's who require a large deposit to buy a home of the same value because they work for minimum wage and arent eligible for a no deposit home loan.

example 2, yet another disability pension junkie:

a mate REFUSES to work unless its cash in hand, under the table.
any time he's sent to a job interview he deliberately makes himself appear unemployable, or screws up the job so they dont want him back.

why?
"if i work i get a few hundred a week more, but my Ex will make me pay child support and ill have to pay for fuel, lunches etc so ill end up worse coz if i stay on the disability pension i dont earn enough for her to take child support, so i get more in my pocket".

he is on the disability pension for an injury that he likes to exagerate when hes sent for testing on it, but he is more than capable of erecting verandahs, sheds and other stuff around home.

3) i know an ENTIRE FAMILY (parents + 2 kids) who have at various times gone to work, exagerate a minor injury then brag about them getting a big workers comp. payout, then they can use the apparent injury to go back on, yep... the dole. when forced to go back to work.. oohh me knee! this time ive done me knee at work!.
"oh did i tell you, when i get my next pay out im buying a big tv + sound system with the money. "

this is not about poor people, or under privelidged people.
its about people who sit on their arse and are proud to shaft the system up its arse for every cent they can..
most young mums who have multiple kids to multiple dads not only get govt support but also child maintenance payments!

leaches, the lot of them.. a worthless parasite that feeds off others till its fattened up and can squirm off to leech on someone else.

something has to be done.

oh and having kids should not be a god given right, it should be considered a privelidge to bring life into this world.
even if it is a used and abused privelidge

reply to post by Res Ipsa


Thats nice.

This story is about the UK though.

You need a licence to:

Own a dog
Drive a car
Watch a TV
Go fishing
etc

But you don't need a licence to create and raise a child...

Perhaps if you did, and were required to sit exams to ensure that you were fit to bring a new life into this world, the situation could change?



[edit on 26-3-2008 by citizen smith]

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by Res Ipsa

 

Thats nice.

This story is about the UK though.

-----------
Yeah, it sure "was" but someone on the first page posted that there was talk about doing this in the U.S. which is absurb. I was responding to those in the U.S. that think this is an option or the fact that any other protected fundamental right could be taken away by offering a carrot on a stick. A statute like this wouldn't even survive a summary judgment

reply to post by citizen smith


I have often said a system like on Starship Troopers where people have to earn citizenship and then can apply for a family license sounds good to me. The world is overpopulated and we're only doing the species in by allowing those that are a complete waste of genes to breed unchecked, whereas those who have intelligence and skills are unable to afford more than 1 kid.

Just to add, I haven't always been well off. For much of my adult life I was on less than £15k/year, so quite poor. Yet, even then, I didn't claim what I was "entitled" too and quite often, was refused help in favour of useless breeder-scum and immigrants who couldn't speak English, let alone spell it.

reply to post by stumason


Oh I understand the principle which is why I added my comments on the Middle Class..

Doesn't it seem like they are wanting the WRONG people to reproduce? ..

I don't know. Seems backwards to me.

Perhaps a more productive angle to the welfare-state should be considered...

If you are 'paid' by the state, then you should be at the 'employed' by the state and be put to work in whatever task is in social demand

reply to post by citizen smith


Like working on infrastructure, or cleaning the hospitals? There are plenty of things that need doing, yet we have over 1 million unemployed!

EDIT: To add more info about that Breeder Karen Matthews, turns out that her neighbour is the brother of one of the fathers of her kids, but is also the uncle of the uncle that took Shannon. So Shannon's uncle is also her uncle's uncle....

Thats just what I gleamed out of a Telegraph article earlier today. I'm sure it is the tip of the incestuous iceberg! Talk about inbred!!

[edit on 26/3/08 by stumason]

reply to post by citizen smith


Wow i agree with that . Like community service . Get some pot holes filled and crap. .

I have always agreed that you should have to be able to at least pass the G.E.D to have a kid . There are WAY to many stupid people breeding . Have you ever noticed that the stupider people get the more kids they have ?

My roommate has 4 by different fathers . She got them all taken away (might have been a BS reason) But now she is out scouting for father #3 ... Frigging sad.

While i admit she may be a decent mother . (fathers issues got the kids taken) I cant understand her going for kid #5 with a new guy .

I would support a "right to breed" Contract of some sort , Not that most of these kids get to stay at home long anyway.

[edit on 26-3-2008 by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR]

reply to post by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR


THIS would be an wonderfull tool in the hands of NWO . You cannot restrict the right of someone to reproduce, however I agree it should not be encouraged with oversized benefits.

reply to post by sty


With "rights" come responsibility's, surely?

Everyone bangs on about their "rights" these day's, without little thought as to the way they should function within society. very self centred.

You could have a system that guarantees everyones right to breed providing they meet a minimum standard. If that standard is attainable, then I do not see how this would infringe on anyone's rights unless they were too lazy to go and sort themselves out, in which case, do we really wnat them breeding anyway?

In expansion of the "license to breed" posted above, dont you think we need to redress the balance of power in the political spectrum?

What I am talking about of course, is the fact that an inbred hick has the same voice in parliament as a university professor. The fact that democracy is as it stands, idiocracy.

We need a license to vote, with a minimum IQ bar set to disenfranchise idiots. Parliament reflects its constituents and if the constituents are idiots... oops well I guess we know how Labour got into power.

reply to post by 44soulslayer


Indeed.

It's funny, as here at my work, we have been discussing these very things and coming up with the perfect "revolution" in order to bring about change for the better. The very things everyone at work says are mentioned here too.

Seems everyone I speak to is in agreement, it makes you wonder who is actually voting the muppets into power!

reply to post by 44soulslayer


Sorry i'm speaking as an American . And my reply should be read in that light.
All tho the topic is on Britain(?) Politics . I think this should be implemented as a world view. However unlikely .
I guess in the grand scheme of things . With the world becoming smaller everyday. Were gonna be swimming in stupid people in no time . And of course i wouldn't want to exactly "take there right to breed" Just at least limit it . I mean who REALLY needs five kids with a 5th grade education? At the very least . They should be forced to complete the "g.e.d" . I don't have a great solution that would work i guess. But i think it should be thought about and seriously mulled over .

BTW to one of the guys back . Love the idiocracy reference . Star for you

I work in an area of high disadvantage in England...... on a HUGE council estate. At the end of the day I return to my 'middle class' home 5 miles away....

It is not as simple as sterlising people, there are many other issues... some listed below:

of those I work with - where teenage pregnancies run at 10%... those young people make the choice to get pregnant, most of them not for the benefits. They get pregnant because they want someone to love, that will love them back... like a 'real doll'. For these young people who have poor quality of life it is a real positive choice.

Many people on these estates are working, however they earn minimum wages which gives them a low income. What you find is that family life is very important to these people, even if it is a different way of living than perhaps we may be used to.

I know whenever there is a problem on estates, the residents close ranks and support each other. Everyone knows everyone and although there is conflict, there is also a cameradrie which I think most people have lost over the years as we have become more affluent.

Parents I meet on benefits are largely uneducated.... didn't attend school much and left with little or no qualifications. This is a cycle of deprivation which goes on and on through generations... sterlising people would not necessarily break this cycle.... it would be selective breeding.

We need to educate people and work with them to give them quality of life, pride in themselves and ambition to get out of the situation that they are in.

I think its a great idea, and I dont understand the people who say there is a morality issue with it. IMO if you dont agree with it the solution is easy dont accept the aid therefore you will not be subjected to sterilization. Mabey this is what we need to get people that have resinged themselvs to being leeches to take some responsibility for themselves.

reply to post by easystreet


Firstly, I applaud your work. My own brother has been helped by the state after leaving with no GCSE's and is also currently housed by the state as well. they have helped him get an apprenticeship in order to better himself. This is the kind of work I like to see the state do.

However, what you mentioned about "sense of family".. Well, judging by the example of the Karen Matthews family tree I showed earlier, this is in fact a reality. They ARE all family.

This comes on to my next point, which is about the "selective breeding" you mentioned. Surely, selective breeding is better than in breeding?

It can be seen that after several generations of all living together and breeding within the same area obviously has a detrimental affect on the quality of people coming out of such estates. They are invariably low-IQ, poorly educated people, who look distinctly different than a "normal" person. I can spot a council estate person from a mile off, just by how they look.

The breeding behaviours displayed only makes the situation worse, regardless how it makes a 16 year old chav-mother feel.