Amazing Artifact

They do kind of look like fish or aquatic life but the resemblence to the picture of the Mayan King sitting in that contraption is a little uncanny. The lines look very similiar as well.


Pie

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
They do kind of look like fish or aquatic life but the resemblence to the picture of the Mayan King sitting in that contraption is a little uncanny. The lines look very similiar as well.

Pie

They are quite similar. And for good reason. They come from the same area, similar cultures.

And the only reason you see that "Mayan King" as sitting in "that contraption" is because Von Daniken impressed the image on your psyche. The King is actually falling through the Mayan "Tree of Life" in that carving. It says so right there in glyphs next to the carving. Not that Van Daniken would ever tell you that, it could cut into book sales.

Harte

Originally posted by Harte Von Daniken impressed the image on your psyche.

von Who?

OH you mean THIS GUY. Well he didn't impress anything on my psyche, but I did see a debate in Canada hosted by Peirre Burton where he came off a lot better than the Archeologist that was on the other side. He never claimed it was true, ever, just presented his views so you could make up your own mind. The Archeologist on the other hand, when asked to prove his view, just resorted to insults. Even Pierre though he stated on the show that he did not believe Danekin's theory, still awarded him the winner on how he handled himself.

Its always amazing to me how many "experts" jump on people who present unorthodox claims. So much for an open mind in the scientific community

On discovery channel I watched an episode where this palentologist were in the Gobi Desert... he held in his hand the skull of a hadrasaur[sp?] the "sheep" of the dinosaur world, as there were hundreds of them ... he then proceeded to toss it to the ground!!! This really pi....ticked me off. As a fossil hunter myself I have to abide by tons of regulations here in the US about what I can and cannot dig, despite the cry from museums that their best finds come from amateurs... yet this "expert" just tossed it down...what because in China its okay?

So excuse me if I am not fond of experts.... they have been proven wrong to many times in our history. [rant off.... having some coffee....]

As to Erich von Däniken about….

… UFOs
I have never seen one! I am aware that a major part of the so-called UFO sightings is fallacies. Nevertheless, I am of the opinion, there are UFOs. However, the question is: what exactly are these ?

… God
I have never lost my God and I am one of the few people who still pray every day.


... Critics
Where I made mistakes, I stand by it. However, sometimes you are criticized wrongly; but I learned to live with the critics. When my first book was published and I was fiercely attacked, a famous man, Prof. Dr. Herman Obert, the father of space travel, said to me at that time:


… Scientists
I gave many lectures at universities, and consistently seen lively and heated discussions. I then often had following experiences: if one doesn’t lie to himself, doesn’t try to bluff and if one lets the other finishes speaking, in the end both sides did learn a lot. A scientist of integrity admitted to me after a two of three hours discussion: Mr. von Däniken, we didn’t know that at all. I asked other scientists: . The answer was always, that such topics must be carried from outside into science. If a scientist himself would do this, his colleagues would expel him.


… his greatest wish
Until today, I have collected hundred of outstanding signs that show that the Earth was once visited by aliens. But I don’t have any single objective proof, for example an artificially made object that doesn’t come from this planet, that one could show triumphantly to science. My greatest wish would be that someone, who doesn’t have to be me myself, finds such an object and presents it still during my lifetime.

And the people of Switzerland take him seriously

Have a look at this

THEME PARK

So you may laugh at him all you wish... but I for one will buy a ticket and see for myself

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by Harte Von Daniken impressed the image on your psyche.

von Who?

OH you mean THIS GUY.

Pardon me, but the remark was to PieMan. Surely a follower of EVD such as yourself knows that it was VonDaniken that first purposefully misinterpreted the above-mentioned Mayan carving and tried to pawn it off on a (lamentably) unsuspecting public as evidence of visitations from Ancient Astronauts, even though it had been decades since the Mayan glyphs right there next to the carving, explaining exactly what the carving depicted, had been deciphered. VonDaniken knew this, yet still made up his own crapola to go with the carving, never even hinting at the very real fact of the prior translations.

Originally posted by zorgon Well he didn't impress anything on my psyche, but I did see a debate in Canada hosted by Peirre Burton where he came off a lot better than the Archeologist that was on the other side. He never claimed it was true, ever, just presented his views so you could make up your own mind. The Archeologist on the other hand, when asked to prove his view, just resorted to insults. Even Pierre though he stated on the show that he did not believe Danekin's theory, still awarded him the winner on how he handled himself.

"Came out a lot better?" Maybe he's a good debater. There's no doubt he's an excellent liar.

Originally posted by zorgonIts always amazing to me how many "experts" jump on people who present unorthodox claims. So much for an open mind in the scientific community

There is such a thing as too open a mind. There is also such a thing as exasperation with a stupid fool that won't quit on a lousy idea which was piecewise disproven over thirty years ago.

Originally posted by zorgonOn discovery channel I watched an episode where this palentologist were in the Gobi Desert... he held in his hand the skull of a hadrasaur[sp?] the "sheep" of the dinosaur world, as there were hundreds of them ... he then proceeded to toss it to the ground!!! This really pi....ticked me off. As a fossil hunter myself I have to abide by tons of regulations here in the US about what I can and cannot dig, despite the cry from museums that their best finds come from amateurs... yet this "expert" just tossed it down...what because in China its okay?

So excuse me if I am not fond of experts.... they have been proven wrong to many times in our history. [rant off.... having some coffee....]

On the Discovery Channel, eh? What if it was a plaster cast prop for the show?
So, one "expert" does one thing you don't like, resulting in you running into the protective coma of VonDaniken's lies and mischaracterizations? You don't care at all that the man has admitted to forgeing some of the very evidence he has used to convince you of the merits of his ideas?

Originally posted by zorgonAs to Erich von Däniken about….

… God
I have never lost my God and I am one of the few people who still pray every day.

That is funny. I heard him say almost exactly the opposite of this on the History Channel not a month ago (though I don't know how old the show was.)
I guess, since we are talking about VonDaniken here, it is to be expected that 180 degree variations in his monologue would emerge, based on what sort of point he was trying to make at the time, and of course on who he was talking to.

Originally posted by zorgon

... Critics
Where I made mistakes, I stand by it. However, sometimes you are criticized wrongly; but I learned to live with the critics. When my first book was published and I was fiercely attacked, a famous man, Prof. Dr. Herman Obert, the father of space travel, said to me at that time:

Mr. VonDaniken, former hotel clerk and convicted forger turned millionaire conman
has admitted being wrong only when confronted with absolute proof of the very lies he has fabricated.

Originally posted by zorgon

… Scientists
I gave many lectures at universities, and consistently seen lively and heated discussions. I then often had following experiences: if one doesn’t lie to himself, doesn’t try to bluff and if one lets the other finishes speaking, in the end both sides did learn a lot. A scientist of integrity admitted to me after a two of three hours discussion: Mr. von Däniken, we didn’t know that at all. I asked other scientists: . The answer was always, that such topics must be carried from outside into science. If a scientist himself would do this, his colleagues would expel him.

George Carlin has probably given more "lectures" at Universities. I'd prefer to go with his interpretations of ancient culture, not even knowing what they are, than to even begin to (again) believe an admitted lying scumbag like VonDaniken. A "scientist of integrity" once told me that.

Originally posted by zorgon

… his greatest wish
Until today, I have collected hundred of outstanding signs that show that the Earth was once visited by aliens. But I don’t have any single objective proof, for example an artificially made object that doesn’t come from this planet, that one could show triumphantly to science. My greatest wish would be that someone, who doesn’t have to be me myself, finds such an object and presents it still during my lifetime.

Well, he had good, solid proof, until a news crew found the potter that VonDaniken contracted with to make the "ancient pottery" with UFOs and aliens depicted on it that one of his books featured.

Originally posted by zorgonAnd the people of Switzerland take him seriously

Have a look at this

THEME PARK

So you may laugh at him all you wish... but I for one will buy a ticket and see for myself

Using this nut's theme park as evidence of his veracity? Zorgon, let me ask this, are you Erich VonDaniken?

I wonder what to make of Michael Jackson, what with his Neverland Ranch and all....

By the way, you better hurry up and get that ticket. Last I heard (about a month ago or so,) EVD was unsuccessful at finding a partner to keep his theme park out of bankruptcy. Not surprising, really - would you trust a convicted forger that admittedly lies in his "nonfictional" fairy tales with your big bankroll?

Harte

You can look at an Airplane and say the same thing! Airplanes are modeled after .... guess.... BIRDS!

Who said anything about ETs designing birds? Here's a question for ya, I would consider God to be extraterestrial...... Didn't god design birds?

Anyways, these do not look like birds, they look like Airplanes, we could argue this all day and all night.... but I bet you I could pull up pictures that represent these better with airplanes than you could with birds....

What do you say?

Originally posted by Byrd
We've discussed this before.

It's genuine Egyptian. I've lost the link, but if you look at the thing from all sides (walk around it, peer at it), it's very obviously a model of a bird.

ETs did not design birds.

Originally posted by promomag
You can look at an Airplane and say the same thing! Airplanes are modeled after .... guess.... BIRDS!

Who said anything about ETs designing birds? Here's a question for ya, I would consider God to be extraterestrial...... Didn't god design birds?

Anyways, these do not look like birds, they look like Airplanes, we could argue this all day and all night.... but I bet you I could pull up pictures that represent these better with airplanes than you could with birds....

What do you say?

Promomag,

I understand your response to Byrd here. I was puzzled myself until I realized that Byrd had obviously not even looked at the picture in question.

Byrd has answered thousands of silly posts here at ATS about similar things, and, as I said in an earlier post, which I'm assuming you hadn't read before you posted this response to Byrd, I'm pretty darn sure that Byrd was under the impression that the O.P. was referring to the Saqqara Bird, an Egyptian relic that is so often referenced as an "Ancient Model Airplane!!," much more often referenced, in fact, that the South American Flying Fish jewelry shown in the O.P.'s link.

So, Byrd made a mistake, responding to a post without going deeply enough into what the poster was talking about.

Byrd made a mistake. Believe me, you've witnessed an extremely rare event!

Harte

Originally posted by Byrd
We've discussed this before.

It's genuine Egyptian. I've lost the link, but if you look at the thing from all sides (walk around it, peer at it), it's very obviously a model of a bird.

ETs did not design birds.

uh dude i dont think birds have tail wings...

Originally posted by Harte
Pardon me, but the remark was to PieMan.

Sorry my mistake... I assumed this was an open forum... won't happen again

Surely a follower of EVD such as yourself knows

I am not as you assume a follower. As a matter of fact it wasn't until I entered this room that I discovered he was still around, and had a theme park. You mention he made money selling books to present his ideas. Ummmm last I checked the book stores are FULL of books presenting unorthodox ideas. He is making money with the theme park most probably... so now there is something wrong with that? How do you think the Catholic Church runs its empire, selling their belief system?

tried to pawn it off on a (lamentably) unsuspecting public as evidence of visitations from Ancient Astronauts,

Well as far as I can read.. he plainly and clearly states.. and has stated all these years.. that this is only his view point, and has always asked the reader to judge for themselves. Whether or not there is any truth to his claims... at least it is left to the reader to decide.

And isn't that precisely what we try to do in these threads? Present our ideas with as much evidence is possible to find similar points of view and debunk those that try to debunk us? I see many people at ATS that believe Aliens visited in the past, and I bet few have ever heard of EVD.

So calling a person a liar or "a stupid fool that won't quit on a lousy idea" is hardly fair. The theme park is called "Mystery Park" where ideas are presented. Its not called "Proof Park". People who attend it go for fun, for speculation not for conversion.

Perhaps sometimes the word of a "fool" are better than the word of an "expert"

By the way, you better hurry up and get that ticket. Last I heard (about a month ago or so,) EVD was unsuccessful at finding a partner to keep his theme park out of bankruptcy. Not surprising, really - would you trust a convicted forger that admittedly lies in his "nonfictional" fairy tales with your big bankroll? [/quote]

If I didn't know better one might thing your ha.. dislike for the man was personal... Well time will tell whether the park survives. Lego Land failed too... Europeans don't do theme parks like we do here. But now that you mention it, maybe I should give him a ring and get some advice on building one here.

Raise some funds for a cross venture. Can I put you down for a buck?

PS Disney also owns a porno company

[edit on 10-7-2006 by zorgon]

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by Harte
Pardon me, but the remark was to PieMan.

Sorry my mistake... I assumed this was an open forum... won't happen again

No, Zorgon, it is an open forum. But your response made it seem like I was saying that you had had the image impressed on your psyche, when in fact it was Pieman that actually said "the Mayan King sitting in that contraption." This king (Palenque, wasn't it?) isn't sitting in any "contraption" at all. It was EVD that first suggested this (to my knowledge anyway) and hence I said that Pieman had had the image impressed on his psyche by EVD.

Originally posted by zorgon

Surely a follower of EVD such as yourself knows

I am not as you assume a follower. As a matter of fact it wasn't until I entered this room that I discovered he was still around, and had a theme park. You mention he made money selling books to present his ideas. Ummmm last I checked the book stores are FULL of books presenting unorthodox ideas. He is making money with the theme park most probably... so now there is something wrong with that? How do you think the Catholic Church runs its empire, selling their belief system?

Sorry if I assumed something erroneously about you concerning EVD. But you did claim to have had several old photos you could no longer find, and you did put up a photo from EVD's archive - judging by it's url.
Nothing at all wrong with "presenting unorthodox ideas," but IMO you cross the line when you hire people to fabricate "ancient pottery" with pics of UFOs on them to further your cause. Once you get caught doing that, as did EVD, then you deserve no further consideration at all, and you also deserve far more scorn than I have shown here. But I'm prepared to show more scorn, if necessary.

Also, why do you think that it would matter to me how the Catholic Church conducts it's business? After all, in the end, they at least tell you that it's a matter of faith, and not a matter of some big conspiracy among archaeologists to keep their "cushy, high-paying" jobs (as if .)

Originally posted by zorgonWell as far as I can read.. he plainly and clearly states.. and has stated all these years.. that this is only his view point, and has always asked the reader to judge for themselves. Whether or not there is any truth to his claims... at least it is left to the reader to decide.

And isn't that precisely what we try to do in these threads? Present our ideas with as much evidence is possible to find similar points of view and debunk those that try to debunk us?

Apples and oranges, my friend. EVD purposely leaves out information that he certainly knows about his so called "evidence," such as the perfectly reasonable and well supported - practically airtight - explanation of the carving on Palenque's sarcophagus lid. This information is (or was, anyway) not readily available to the general public when "Chariots of the Gods?" was originally published. If EVD wanted his readers to "judge for themselves," as you claim, then why didn't he provide any context with the carving, and why did he never even mention the glyphs that explain in full what is being depicted in the carving?" Why didn't he show (or at least mention) the well-known motif, found all over the area occupied by that culture, of the "Tree of Life" that is shown in the carving? He called this motif a space capsule. A motif that was already well known before EVD ever was forced from his hotel clerk job after forging signatures on hotel checks and reciepts.
How can you compare a one-sided purposeful misrepresentation of established fact to a two (or more) sided discussion at ATS where evidence is presented? In the ATS case, evidence is presented by whoever wants to discuss the matter. With EVD, evidence is actually forged, or at best ignored or hidden, and never mentioned.

Originally posted by zorgon I see many people at ATS that believe Aliens visited in the past, and I bet few have ever heard of EVD.

I have no idea how many have ever heard of him, but I'm sure that, at least in this particular area of ATS, it's a whole bunch. But the fewer, the better, to my mind.

Originally posted by zorgon
Perhaps sometimes the word of a "fool" are better than the word of an "expert"

Possibly, but this is certainly not one of those cases.

Harte

Well lets shake hands and have an Ale and agree to disagree

I do look at both sides of everything, and many has been the time something a sceptic has said or posted a link to has been very helpful, though not necessarily in the way it was intended.

Originally posted by zorgon
Well lets shake hands and have an Ale and agree to disagree

I do look at both sides of everything, and many has been the time something a sceptic has said or posted a link to has been very helpful, though not necessarily in the way it was intended.

Fine. BTW, did you go to the links I provided about your "petrified sandal print" (the Meister print)?

What did you think?

Harte

Originally posted by Harte
BTW, did you go to the links I provided about your "petrified sandal print" (the Meister print)?

Oops I got as far as the coffee one before I left... missed the little "here" I will look at it and get back to you later. Thanks, that was the one I was looking for

Yup knew about the painting thread

Originally posted by Harte
What did you think?

Well the "crack" they define as the heel mark is too high. If you look at the picture just above and to the far left you will see a very clearly defined right anglr where the heel would be. In that photo being the quality it is, it is not possible to make any definative answer.

I would have to see the specimen first hand, or at least a good clear image, to give you a better opinion. I have spent 30 years digging specimens, but just looking at it I would certainly say I would want to examine it closer before making up my mind.

So for now... undecided

But thank you for finding that, I will try to see if I can go look at it. Utah's not to far away

Originally posted by zorgon
Well the "crack" they define as the heel mark is too high. If you look at the picture just above and to the far left you will see a very clearly defined right anglr where the heel would be. In that photo being the quality it is, it is not possible to make any definative answer.

I would have to see the specimen first hand, or at least a good clear image, to give you a better opinion. I have spent 30 years digging specimens, but just looking at it I would certainly say I would want to examine it closer before making up my mind.

You might try a google image search using "Meister Print." The pic at the site I linked is kind of small. Larger, higher rez ones may exist out there. I've seen that pic in several places, seems like some of them were larger.

Harte

Originally posted by Harte I've seen that pic in several places, seems like some of them were larger.
Harte

Thanks I did. Its a lot easier when you have a starting point like a name

COLOR PICTURE

Much better...

Now wasn't the place they found those prints near area 51

Oh BTW SCI FI channel just ran "Quest for Atlantis" They interviewed EVD

Seems others are following in his footsteps...



[edit on 11-7-2006 by zorgon]

Zorgon wrote:

“…So excuse me if I am not fond of experts.... they have been proven wrong to many times in our history…”

Man, ain’t That the truth. Just once I’d like to hear a hard core scientist type say something like “this is what I Believe to be true today… tomorrow I’ll probably Believe something else” *dreamy* Wouldn’t That be refreshing?

quote from pretty much any scientist from any generation:

“My predecessor was Wrong. I am Right.”

oh really? So that’s what they are going to be saying about you Tomorrow, I see…. my faith is bolstered.

I wrote an essay on this concept some years ago for SDC… I’ll see if I still have a copy and dump it into Skunkworks… could be fun *shrugs*

rock on
twj

Originally posted by That guy
The fact of the matter is, former generations of people were a lot smarter than we are today. In the beginning God created man perfectly. As soon as Adam sinned, degredation started. All we are today is a copy, of a copy, of a copy, and so on. When we have children we pass on are DNA, but it isn't copied perfectly. This means that humanity is getting dumber. Now, most of you will retort with the fact that we are more technologicly advanced now than we have ever been. To that I say, all we are doing is standing of the shoulders of giants. It's the same reason why in scripture man was allowed to marry their family members. If there are no flaws in your DNA then having children with a family member isn't going to produce flawed children. But with our DNA deteriorating, having children with your sister means a strong possibility for matching flawed genes. This is why God had to make illegal in the days of Moses. Side note, deteriorating DNA is just one topic that completely destroys the retarded theory of evolution. There are countless other topics if anyone would like to hear about them. Don't let the lies of evolution brain wash you.

Well there are some problems with your theory here, but you might have proved that having kids with your sister isn't a very smart thing to do...

DNA and evolution does NOT work that way! If everything living was deteriorating irreversibly at every generation, then everything would be dead within a few generations, there would be no life.

So are we getting smarter or dumber? It's called natural selection. The flawed, sick and weak individuals are less likely to have offsprings than the perfect, healthy and strong. Thus more of the good DNA will be carried on to the next generation than the bad. And so every generation becomes better equipped to handle life than the previous.

So unless you try to breed idiots on purpose, intelligence will prevail...

To Harte


Here is a little tidbit my friend Matyas found

I would like your opinion on it.

The Voynich Manuscript

Originally posted by Thatoneguy
I saw this on the Sci Fi channel last night on a show called In Search of....

It was talking about how maybe ETs may have helped ancient egyptians build the pyramids and invent electricity.

And then they showed this amazing artifact, not from egypt but from another ancient civilization.

I did some research on the net and was able to find pictures of it for those who havent seen it before.

www.geocities.com...

Looks exactly like an airplane of some sort. Researchers even built a replica of it on a larger scale and put an engine in it and it flew.

What are some of your theories?

Interesting how they seem to work on coils.

I've seen coils on wall paintings and other artifacts.

The tie in with flying machines is a break through in magic carpet or other ancient
flying objects if there is anything to it.

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
The tie in with flying machines is a break through in magic carpet or other ancient
flying objects if there is anything to it.

Magic Carpets?

Sounds like some kida anti gravity device to me!!!