US warship 'opens fire in Suez' Breaking News

SUEZ, Egypt - Dozens of angry mourners buried an Egyptian man Tuesday who they said was killed by shots fired from an American cargo ship contracted to the U.S. Navy as it passed through the Suez Canal. U.S. officials said American military guards aboard the ship only fired warning shots toward approaching motorboats Monday night and said they had received no report of anyone being killed. …..…… An Egyptian security official at the canal, however, said one man was fatally shot in the small boat and the three other men with him were wounded. The official agreed to discuss the incident only if he was not identified, because he was not authorized to talk to journalists……

……"There were no warning shots from the ship. They just turned a spotlight on it and started firing immediately," said Abdullah Fouad, the dead man's brother, who was not on the motorboat but said he spoke to the three other men who were…..The victim worked on the small boats that sell cigarettes and other products to the crews of ships going through the canal…..

….
In Washington, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said the U.S. was working with Egypt "to understand exactly what happened here and make sure we have good, clear, open communications so you don't have a repeat of these kinds of incidents."
He said he expected Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Egyptian Defense Minister Mohammed Hussein Tantawi to discuss the incident during a private meeting at the State Department on Tuesday. ….

link


Well we have two totally different stories here. Were saying we fired warning shots and no one was killed. They are saying no warning shots was fired and someone was killed.

Good follow up. It'll be a different story tomorrow.

reply to post by Shar


Hard to believe a man died and they continue to claim all they fired were "warning shots."

Apparently, dead men do tell tales.

Arent warning shots supposed to be fired

UP in the air ?

They may have a hard time explaining this one away.

Speaking as a merchant navy officer.....this is a rather awkward case.

Firstly can I just say that SOP for merchant ships is to use any and all means to deny acess to boarders to a ship....or to pay them off.

If anyones interested there are numerous reports of hijackings, kidnappings, killing and dissapearances of ships and thier crew. So frankly if you seen a small boat that tried to board your ship , how would you react? Most merchant ships are unarmed not even with small arms, except maybe the LRAD device on some cruise ships.

On the other hand , this ship killed someone just tryting to sell them something which begs the question...did he have a radio? Did he speak the same language as the crew or was he just an ignorant salesman?

Just a few thoughts to add....

Oh and just to add....a Roll on Roll off ship is most DEFINATLY not a warship by any stretch of the word.....lol...their floating boxes with big lifts and doors.....

Warning shots fired up in the air don't do any good. At any kind of range they don't even know you fired. Warning shots are initially fired IN FRONT OF whatever they are shooting at, in this case the boat. It's entirely possible that the crew didn't even see the man get hit. Visibility from that high up, especially if it was at night or twilight is rather poor to see details such as blood splatter. They may have assumed he dropped to the deck when the warning shots were fired to hide.

Originally posted by devilwasp

Oh and just to add....a Roll on Roll off ship is most DEFINATLY not a warship by any stretch of the word.....lol...their floating boxes with big lifts and doors.....

Ahh this has been burning in my mind! What did the merchant boat/ship look like? How big was it? Do you have any photos of one? Or a photo of a boat/ship that is comparable?

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


Looks like this, umm...actually, it looks just this:



Not a small boat, by any measure.




[edit on 25-3-2008 by goosdawg]

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

Ahh this has been burning in my mind! What did the merchant boat/ship look like? How big was it? Do you have any photos of one? Or a photo of a boat/ship that is comparable?

A RORO? Depending on if its been converted into one or is a purpose built RORO, generally they tend to literally be bricks with rounded fronts with large side doors and a large stern door.

Just google Roll On Roll Off, you'll find a general ship class and pictures of different ships. I dont know about the ship personally I'm just speaking about what the class would be like.

Edit:
Right! I've looked up the ship and she is a converted General Purpose Cargo Carrier....

[edit on 22/11/2007 by devilwasp]

Originally posted by Zaphod58
Warning shots fired up in the air don't do any good. At any kind of range they don't even know you fired. Warning shots are initially fired IN FRONT OF whatever they are shooting at, in this case the boat.

Right, that's how I understood it, and that's the way I think it should be. Makes sense tactically. However...

It's entirely possible that the crew didn't even see the man get hit. Visibility from that high up, especially if it was at night or twilight is rather poor to see details such as blood splatter. They may have assumed he dropped to the deck when the warning shots were fired to hide.

That does not justify anything! Geeze, does anyone else on board still believe in innocence until proven guilty!? Oh wait, this is WAR TIME eh? *drums of war sound*. Never mind, I'll just stop applying Americas virtues and morality and justice to these matters.. it simply doesn't apply in "war times"

Everyone is guilty if they get too close to the US military. Get too close to their secrets, then you die. Get to close to their money, then you die. Get to close to their ships, and you die. If you have a problem with this then they park their nuclear subs in your swimming pool.

[edit on 053131p://25u02 by Lucid Lunacy]

Where the hell did I say it justified anything? Do not put words in my mouth. I was simply ATTEMPTING to explain the difference in the stories. The crew on the ship may not have even KNOWN they hit him, which is why they said no one was killed.

Originally posted by goosdawg
reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

 

Looks like this:

Not a small boat, by any measure.

Ahh, I misread what he was saying..

I was actually wondering what the other boat/ship looked like... from the Egyptian traders.

Thanks for the photo and swift response though

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

That does not justify anything! Geeze, does anyone else on board still believe in innocence until proven guilty!? Oh wait, this is WAR TIME eh? *drums of war sound*. Never mind, I'll just stop applying Americas virtues and morality and justice to these matters.. it simply doesn't apply in "war times"

Everyone is guilty if they get too close to the US military. Get too close to their secrets, then you die. Get to close to their money, then you die. Get to close to their ships, and you die. If you have a problem with this then they park their nuclear subs in your swimming pool.

[edit on 053131p://25u02 by Lucid Lunacy]

Can I ask you something?

Have you ever read about what has happened to merchant crews when boarders get onboard? Many have simply dissaperaed and thier ships reappared half a world away in different colours and under new names and documents. Once onboard a ship it is VERY easy to gain control of a merchant ship, your talking about 16 crew onboard most ships....

reply to post by deltaboy



Two things:

First that is speculation on my part and I know that there is no evidence to support it. If there was it would't be much of a secret would it.

Second point however is that I bet no one, especially Egytian, has went on board and searched that ship during the 'investigation'.

I still think it is very abnormal for workers on a cargo ship to be firing on other vessels.

Oh, another odd thing about this is that the man who 'didn't' get shot had a name.

An Egyptian security official had told AFP the Global Patriot had opened fire on the barges as they approached the US ship wanting to sell merchandise, killing one person and lightly wounding two.
The official named the dead man as Mohammed Moqtar Afifi.

US Denies Casualties in Suez Canal

And friends and a family.

Dozens of angry mourners buried an Egyptian man Tuesday who they said was killed by shots fired from an American cargo ship contracted to the U.S. Navy as it passed through the Suez Canal.

US ship shoots at boat in Suez Canal


Official denial does not necessarily mean it's the truth. It depends on how much money has exchanged hands and to whom.

Originally posted by devilwasp

Can I ask you something?

That's a big part to why I want to see a photo of the Egyptian traders RORO. I want to see all the clues that might have indicated if there was reasonable, justifiable indications that this "boat on boxes" was one of those instances you are referencing...

Please tell me why the Egyptian authorities are firmly stating a man was shot and killed and others were injured, but the US military, despite earlier articles, are now firmly stating no one was shot?

[edit on 053131p://25u54 by Lucid Lunacy]

Originally posted by Zaphod58
Where the hell did I say it justified anything? Do not put words in my mouth. I was simply ATTEMPTING to explain the difference in the stories. The crew on the ship may not have even KNOWN they hit him, which is why they said no one was killed.

I apologize. I made assumptions as to the direction you might have taken this evidence. I based it on your earlier posts, but it was still presumptions on my part. I would have liked to see you of elaborated your own position in light of those hypotheticals... I am sure I wouldn't have put words in your mouth if you had done so. I did, and I am sorry.

Input from a marksman: It takes a lot of years to get an automatic feel for shooting from extreme angles, when shooting up hill you must aim high to compensate for drop, you also aim high while level with the target, but that is built into the weapon's sights most of the time. Look how high those decks on that example ship is, these shots were fired at an extreme downward angle, when fireing downhill you must aim much lower than usual because of all the arch built into the sights.

Imagine trying to shoot in front of a moveing speedboat at a high downhill angle, not only would you have to aim way low and infront, to compensate for its movement, but also lower still to compensate for downhill, it would be extremeley easy to hit them by mistake.

But noooo it couldn't be a mistake where the 'evil' USA is concerned, everyone knows all people in the US armed forces are all bush's personal armed androids, killing machines fueled by the blood of newborn muslim children right?

No matter what the story is, you'll use it as an example to hate Americans in the name of hateing 'your government'. Yet for all you know the merchant ship was shooting them because they were 'honor' rapeing little girls on board, or chaseing another boat of women and children, or were yelling 'allah akbar' waving ak's and rpg's, while not stopping.

But lets not give any American the benifit of the doubt since we are all evil, baby eating, killer robots, who just do bush's sinister bidding.

Originally posted by devilwasp

Can I ask you something?

Have you ever read about what has happened to merchant crews when boarders get onboard? Many have simply dissaperaed and thier ships reappared half a world away in different colours and under new names and documents. Once onboard a ship it is VERY easy to gain control of a merchant ship, your talking about 16 crew onboard most ships....

I believe according to the article there were probably alot more than 16 crew members aboard the ship..

Source

A U.S. Navy security team aboard the ship fired the shots, said Lt. Nathan Christensen, the 5th Fleet's deputy spokesman.

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy


Please tell me why the Egyptian authorities are firmly stating a man was shot and killed and others were injured, but the US military, despite earlier articles, are now firmly stating no one was shot?

BECAUSE its easier to deny it than to have to even make the effort to make up a lie. They even have Condeleeza Rice going over to that area to discuss the problem. Gee, what problem??

This- is why conspiracies are born. Nobody will tell you the truth.

reply to post by HellHound63S
It could all be settled by telling the people the truth.
What do you want when the story keeps changing? We have a bloody body, two wounded, names, and US.

Somebody please solve the riddle. If it was an accident i can forgive.