FLIGHT 11, 175 Did not hit the WTCs.

Are you serious? Do you really have to ask what liberties have been taken from us?
Are you for real?
If you dont know by now whats happening to this country and the world because of one GEORGE W. BUSH there's something wrong here.

Well, you are the reason that George is still in office. :shk:

You're entitled.

reply to post by CaptainObvious


Hey CO, which parallel universe are you living in?

Here's a good list drawn up by the NY Times editorial board; however, it's so damned long I can't quote it here.

Consider it a eulogy for the Bill of Rights. Note also it's almost two years old and the list is even longer now. Here are the bullet points; each has its own paragraph of woe:

Restore Habeas Corpus
Ban Torture, Really
Close the C.I.A. Prisons
Account for ‘Ghost Prisoners’
Ban Extraordinary Rendition
Tighten the Definition of Combatant
Screen Prisoners Fairly and Effectively
Ban Tainted Evidence
Ban Secret Evidence
Better Define ‘Classified’ Evidence
Respect the Right to Counsel

So, in your opinion, which of these is your favorite for improving America?

Aren't they all just swell?

Let's bake an apple pie now, shall we?

[fix link]


[edit on 24-3-2008 by gottago]

Originally posted by gottago
A goodly portion of the Bill of Rights, to start. Maybe you're comfortable with that.

Here are the Bill Of Rights... I am personally going to see what "goodly portion" has been taken from me.....

* First Amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Well...Tom Cruise still studies a religion where an Alien is his messiah (and coverted Will "men in black" Smith).
Just this afternoon I heard a news report on the radio blasting Bush and the war.
Alex Jones is still on the air.

* Second Amendment: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

NRA is still around. Although I don't own a gun or would even consider having one in my home. If i change my mind in the future...I know I will be able to purchase one. (abiding by the laws of my commonwealth)

* Third Amendment: No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

I think this one speaks for itself.

* Fourth Amendment: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

No one has searched my house...taken any of my belongings...etc .etc..

* Fifth Amendment: No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Only been arrested once... but I was too drunk to remember if my miranda rights were read to me.

* Sixth Amendment: In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

Only been taken to small claims court. I won that case.

* Seventh Amendment: In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.
* Eighth Amendment: Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
* Ninth Amendment: The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
* Tenth Amendment: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Not going to go on and on... you get the point I am making.

Does anyone have a list of people that since the Patriot Act was established...American citizens that have had their rights taken away?

Mind you, I am quite certain there are some. I am only curious as to how often this happens.

Originally posted by CaptainObvious

Here are the Bill Of Rights... I am personally going to see what "goodly portion" has been taken from me.....

How silly of me Cap'n, I didn't realize it was only written for you and yours. Let's keep it small bore and banal, I catch your drift. Joe Blow has nothing to worry about if all those Constitutional niceties and fancy Latin phrases just up and disappear, he'll never need 'em out there in Nowheresville USA, as long as he has cable, will he? We have all the rights we need, so long as we never need them, about sums it up, no?

Does anyone have a list of people that since the Patriot Act was established...American citizens that have had their rights taken away?

Mind you, I am quite certain there are some. I am only curious as to how often this happens.

You can indeed be sure there are some, and that someone has a list, and that we'll never see it. And if it happens once, that is too often. It could be you. Yes, even you.

[edit on 24-3-2008 by gottago]

Originally posted by gottago


How silly of me Cap'n, I didn't realize it was only written for you and yours. Let's keep it small bore and banal, I catch your drift. Joe Blow has nothing to worry about if all those Constitutional niceties and fancy Latin phrases just up and disappear, he'll never need 'em out there in Nowheresville USA, as long as he has cable, will he? We have all the rights we need, so long as we never need them, about sums it up, no?

I was trying to point out the question i presented that you jumped on me about. Now again...please tell me what rights have been taken away from you. What do you fear is or has happened to you.

Im not trying to be difficult here.

You can indeed be sure there are some, and that someone has a list, and that we'll never see it. And if it happens once, that is too often. It could be you. Yes, even you.

What could happen to me?

reply to post by CaptainObvious


You or I or anyone could be tried under the Military Commissions Act and tossed into a gulag without due process.

Marjory Cohenprofessor at Thomas Jefferson School of Law in San Diego and president of the National Lawyers Guild, writing September 30, 2006 for the Legal Television Network, noted in her article, "Military Commissions Act: Unintended Consequences?"

"Because the bill was adopted with lightning speed, barely anyone noticed that it empowers Bush to declare not just aliens, but also U.S. citizens, "unlawful enemy combatants."

She added, "Anyone who donates money to a charity that turns up on Bush's list of "terrorist" organizations, or who speaks out against the government's policies could be declared an "unlawful enemy combatant" and imprisoned indefinitely. That includes American citizens."

But then if you shut up and keep your head down, no problemo. How about another slice of apple pie?

Originally posted by gottago
reply to post by CaptainObvious

 

You or I or anyone could be tried under the Military Commissions Act and tossed into a gulag without due process.

Marjory Cohenprofessor at Thomas Jefferson School of Law in San Diego and president of the National Lawyers Guild, writing September 30, 2006 for the Legal Television Network, noted in her article, "Military Commissions Act: Unintended Consequences?"

"Because the bill was adopted with lightning speed, barely anyone noticed that it empowers Bush to declare not just aliens, but also U.S. citizens, "unlawful enemy combatants."

She added, "Anyone who donates money to a charity that turns up on Bush's list of "terrorist" organizations, or who speaks out against the government's policies could be declared an "unlawful enemy combatant" and imprisoned indefinitely. That includes American citizens."

But then if you shut up and keep your head down, no problemo. How about another slice of apple pie?

Alarmism from a left winger? Imagine that. Using her logic, you can read quite a lot into most laws in the books. Funny she didnt mention the parts of the Act that work to prevent a President from going willy nilly and tossing US citizens in jail without due process.

reply to post by Swampfox46_1999


You know lawyers, all a bunch of pinko radicals, especially the professors and the presidents of the Lawyers' associations. Eggheads! Degrees! Titles! Of course people like this are automatically suspect.

Not a one of 'em would be caught dead on Fox News. Absolutely right. Liars from the get-go. Downright un-American. How stupid of me.

Originally posted by gottago
reply to post by Swampfox46_1999

 

You know lawyers, all a bunch of pinko radicals, especially the professors and the presidents of the Lawyers' associations. Eggheads! Degrees! Titles! Of course people like this are automatically suspect.

Not a one of 'em would be caught dead on Fox News. Absolutely right. Liars from the get-go. Downright un-American. How stupid of me.

Well, I wont argue with your self-assessment......

But I decided I would do some research into her.....the reason why I said she was a left winger.

However, lets discuss your appearant hatred of all lawyers....

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999

Well, I wont argue with your self-assessment......

CO would have, but I guess you're clocking in to work the night shift, so I'll have do make do...

But I decided I would do some research into her.....the reason why I said she was a left winger.

And just how does being a "left winger" (by your entirely subjective and unsubstantiated claim) make this legal scholar's assessment invalid?

Are we back in the USSR already? Since when do you need a GOP party membership to be deemed legit?

And what about the assessment itself? Why don't you go dig up something from the American Enterprise Institute on this so we all know how we should think?

Lets keep this on topic in fairness to Ivan and the issue that was brought up. So far I haven't heard anything meaningful in rebuttal. To the skeptics here, if you want to rebut something here, then do it with some respect. This is a conspiracy forum. You can rebut things with respect and that goes further then name calling and mere assertion.

My own personal theory regarding this, is that there were military planes disguised that hit the Towers. It isn't set in stone, but I lean toward that and I feel that this is an interesting development to open the discussion.

I agree, all the evidence points to the facts that those planes were most like piloted from the ground or another craft using 'project homerun' or other remote technologies used to fly planes.

To those misinformed debunkers who try to say that the technology is not available. Shut up, k?



1940's.

Originally posted by skinnyblaze
reply to post by dampnickers

 

Thanks for the post Ivan.Another drop in the olympic sized swimming pool of questions unanswered and unasked by "skeptic" and the media alike.

For sure, thank you for the reply.

Originally posted by IvanZana
reply to post by CaptainObvious

 

..., this is serious and true.

No it is not serious, it is poor analysis, or no analysis. Where do these false ideas and non-evidence come from? Why do you post false evidence?