Homosexuality...What's wrong with it?

I see nothing wrong with someone being gay/lesbian/bisexual, or even transgender in and of itself, just as there is nothing wrong with someone being straight. I myself am straight, but I have a lot of friends and acquaintances who are gay/lesbian/bisexual/trasngender. I accept them for who they are, and they accept me for who I am. Although I am not a believer in god, I do believe that you should always treat others the same way that you want to be treated. As far as christians or persons of other faiths go, go, I fully support their right to believe as they chose to see fit. I do not judge them either. I only ask them to remember what Jesus is reported to have said in the bible:"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone!"

reply to post by Rasobasi420

The problem I have with this argument is that we get told you are this way naturally, now to stop and actually consider that if this is your natural state then to produce a child you are unable. Now we are not complete and total idots we do understand that for various reasons gay people have produced children this is simply the mechanics of the situation not a condemnation.

Personally I don't care what you do as long as you hold a job and pay taxes like everyone else. As far as how I feel about the morality of it, quite simple if you are having sex for the sake of having sex its wrong otherwise your good to go. And while I dont feel you can call a same sex union a marriage, mostly due to marriage being a religous institution and do not feel anyone should litigate any faith into a doctrine against what they believe, but I do feel the state has an obligation to you to recognize and perform such unions and to ensure that you are given the same opportunities as straight couples.

To me the biggest question that we as a society have to really answer on the issue is how many people are this way naturally and how much of this is a learned behavior?

[edit on 3/26/2008 by Jovi1]

Originally posted by Jovi1
To me the biggest question that we as a society have to really answer on the issue is how many people are this way naturally and how much of this is a learned behavior?

As far as I'm concerned I have absolutely no problem with your opinions on everything you said, though I have a comment to make to the quoted part above. How many people are this way naturally vs learned behavior ? It is interesting, and I honestly don't know the answer. To me its just a question of how far we push that study and at what detriment do our hypotheses affect initial trials on humans when we find a way to "fix" this "learned behavior" that may end up not being learned at all.

I've seen people go to Exodus and the problems that arise after with this "behavior modification" and though it may sound simple, it needs to be remembered that you are screwing with a mind, and that mind can be broken. I don't know, to me it seems like we have enough broken minds running around the world without adding to the mix ones we have created. Especially since we can't seem to effectively help the ones that are already out there.

Originally posted by Jovi1
As far as how I feel about the morality of it, quite simple if you are having sex for the sake of having sex its wrong otherwise your good to go.

OK, I'm not usually one to be shamed by natural behavior. And for that matter, I don't think that a married couple should have a child every time they have sex. And I would never condemn a man who is sterile, or a woman who is infertile to a life of chastity. That's just a one-two punch I'm not willing to give.

And what of homosexuality in nature? Bonobo Chimps are bisexual in nature and regularly have intercourse with the same sex of their species, male and female. That's 100% of the species. If God made them, then why make the entire species sinners?

More info on homosexuality in nature.
www.bidstrup.com...

i think its very clear as to why its wrong, kinda like trying to put two magnetic north poles side by side versus a north and a south.

Looks to me that God created male and female for a purpose, and even if you believe in evolution/natural selection, you will find that there are male and female for a reason.
i dont think there will ever be a point in time where a two organisms of the same gender will be able to produce offspring.
i think this was a design not an accident, but even if you do believe in evolution, history shows that the act of sex is beneficial between a male and a female whereas between same genders is not. it doesnt produce a thing. maybe pleasurable but sex wasnt designed just for pleasure.

It's really interesting how people always hide behind their god to express their own prejudice.

It was used to excuse slavery, and subsequent racism that plagued this country. People use their god to pass the buck and I'm calling you on it. If you're homophobic, stand up and be proud of it. Take responsibility for your own mind.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
It's really interesting how people always hide behind their god to express their own prejudice.

It was used to excuse slavery, and subsequent racism that plagued this country. People use their god to pass the buck and I'm calling you on it. If you're homophobic, stand up and be proud of it. Take responsibility for your own mind.

well that comes with twisting scripture along with people like hitler saying that dark skinned people are of lower races.... lower races meaning inferior to blonde haired blue eyed folk. evolution is what actually preaches racism if you follow it through. the bible says that God made of one blood, all nations of men. meaning the bible does not support racism. people who use God as their excuse for racism are dead wrong. Jesus came and accepted everyone. no matter the skin color or sins.

take a look back in history and you will realize that evolution was also used as an excuse for a lot of bad things. Hitler. Pol pot, Joseph Stallin.
all used this excuse of evolution to speed up the process of natural selection (evolutions version of natural selection)

take responsibility for your philosphy, we dont preach this.

I find it hillarious how intelligent people in this thread said this. "The reason homosexuality is a problem is because they can't reproduce and that means that gay person cannot produce more gays." As if being gay is a genetic trait.
I remember this gay man's quote. "It's not homosexual marriages that produce gay kids. It's the hetero ones."
The reason I think there is something wrong with gay people is this. Kate Beckensale is the hottest creature ever. I know her movies are crap but cmon.
I think male on male homosexuality is dentrimental to the body. Proof enough that it's clearly unnatural. Then again hetero sex has it's risks, but just male on male sex causes the body to oddly react.
Methu there are organisms that reproduce asexualy. Frogs are pretty gay switching their gender around. So yeah.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
It's really interesting how people always hide behind their god to express their own prejudice.

It was used to excuse slavery, and subsequent racism that plagued this country. People use their god to pass the buck and I'm calling you on it. If you're homophobic, stand up and be proud of it. Take responsibility for your own mind.

Rasosabi 420,

I am homophobic...I dont like most humans...period. I especially dont think much of humans who tend to be ignorant enough to define who or what they are by thier sexual orientation. Hetero or Homo. I think this is the very epitome of stupidity and I dont care what is ones education level.

I happen to think that human beings are so much more than sexual orientation. Much much more.

As to your comments about slavery..et al..I too think this is ignorance. and also a very biased view based on what we think is 20/20 vision.

Most religious doctrines throughout the world and history do not disparage slavery and there are records of peoples who have sold themselves into slavery in order to survive and be fed. Slavery still takes place in certain locations in this world.

Our technological progress is the main advent which made slavery obselete and afforded us what we think is the moral high ground here. Nations without such advancements are the nations which have serfdom, indentured servitude, gulags, or even the caste system. All very akin to slavery. I will also remind you that debt is also very enslaving though many of us who are educated might not think so. We are selling ourselves into a type of slavery here. This one just happens to be legitimized.
As a matter of recorded fact..our own government here seems to have the ability to sell us into debt/slavery...unlimited on the national debt. Think long and hard on this one.

My point in all this is ...be carefull what you tend to think is religion. Even the religion of slavery. Religion covers more than what most of us tend to think with our standard issued educations. I ,for one,happen to think that politics is a religion...obviously with a very devout and feverent following.
And it is obvious that politics, improperly handled, can be enslaving.
We dont often think of politics as being a religion or enslaving but it most certainly is. It is often the very selling and trading/bartering of the souls of the people/nation. Thinking peoples know this ...without question.

One other thing of importance about religion and this nonsense of slavery. I dont own any slaves and never have. I never will. The same can be said for most of us out here. WE are not accountable, to you or anyone else,as some kind of automatic default setting on this issue. Nor are our religious beliefs.
You cannot play through unchallanged using such a technique or default setting based on religion. Some of us know enough of both history to challange this.

If you think this is not debatable...just look at the dominantly athiest nations in the 20th century and how they dealt with thier people. It is these dominantly athiest nations...Russia and Mainland China who carried out "Humanist Doctrines" in handling and taking care of thier peoples.
How did this turn out ..historically Rasobasi420?? Is their humanist doctrine..a religious belief system?? Is their Humanist Doctrine related to the atrocities and horrors they have carried out on about half of this world??

I can debate this with you or others all day long. The truth about this knowlege is that most "Believers." are way to ignorant about history ..any history..even Christian History...to know the difference here. There is an abominable ignorance among many of my Christian Bretheren about this topic. They are easily bamboozled by the technique such as you and others are wont to use concerning slavery/racism or any other attempted default setting to play through unchallanged.

It is not so at this location. I can take this further but it is sufficient for the purposes of this thread.

I think Humanist Doctrine is a con job on peoples who do not know much history or even religion.
Also ..much of humanist doctrine has infiltrated churchs such that they no longer know the Word they are supposed to be following verses the way of this world. Hence the ignorance of many believers and their being easily defaulted by techniques such as you and others are wont to use on these threads.

I am Homophobic..and I dont care who knows it.
I am a very private individual and not wont to bother people or be bothered. However I will, at times like this, post my opinions.

Thanks Rasobasi for your posts,
Orangetom



[edit on 1-4-2008 by orangetom1999]

Originally posted by Wally Conley
even transgender =

see this gets back to some obvious brian malfunction that i brought up earlier. these fools swear up and down they're the opposite sex but they just CANNOT come to terms with the fact that they aren't. so they go and become the opposite sex via surgery. i mean...it's like anorexia..they really believe they're fat asses but in reality they're stick figures but they jus't can't see it..

this is what eally disgusts me the most about homosexuality and all the transgender bull it's like sometimes i just wanna get on a megaphone and shout: HEY YOU,YOU PRODUCE TESTOSTORNE. I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU DO WITH YOUR SEX ORGAN, JUST ACT LIKE YOU KNOW YOU PRODUCE TESOSTORONE AND STOP WALKING ALL PRISSY. AND YOU, YOU PRODUCE ESTROGEN, STOP GETTINgHAIRCUTS LIKE GUYS. but they just don't realize that and that's why they act the way they do.

soooooooooooo

that means SOMETHING in their brains just ain't clicking

let the hate begin for this post...

LordInfamous,

One of the things I do when I have time is study aspects of Occult religions and the nations who practiced them.
What you learn is that much of real history is in fact Occult meaning Hidden, Concealed, or Esoteric. Esoteric meaning known by only a few. Occult meaning Hidden. THere are even knowleges within these religions practiced differently by the multitudes and another knowlege practiced by insiders..or royalty.

Homosexuality and Transgendered is not a new phenomonon. It is very ancient and variations of this were practiced by the Pagan nations and their Occult religions.

What intrests me is the rush to bring back this pattern out in to the open as it was in the Pagan nations of years past. Remember now...these pagan nations were in fact the intellectual societys of the day.

I am what in certain circles is called "Sectarian." Thus meaning seperated from.

What the intellectual circles both of yesteryears and today want is "Non Sectarian." Thus meaning not seperated from. All joining into one happy group.

I am not intrested in Non Sectarian..but Sectarian. I am seperated from.

I am aware of these peoples and also the history of it. As far as I am concerned they can just pass on by.

What they want to do is force feed this to others under the guise of Guilt Conditioning. Also to force feed it under the guise of Higher Education on peoples who are not fully or emotionally developed. Peoples still in public schools grades 1 through 12. A captive slave audience who can be seduced for a passing grade. This too is slavery.

Once I determine the nature of a thing I do not respond well to guilt conditioning of any kind. I am sectarian. Seperated from.

I am not intrested in this non sectarian nonsense whether hetero or homo. It doesnt make good nonsense to me. No thanks. I am not intrested in such paganism.

A close read of history will show mostly Non Sectarian history. The Sectarian or seperated from history can be found but one must dig very hard and deeply.

Sectarian peoples have always been a minority in this world...always have and always will be. They tend not to be joiners with the multitudes.

I understand to what you are saying and alluding to in your posts. I merely state so in a different vein and manner.


Thanks,
Orangetom

[edit on 2-4-2008 by orangetom1999]

reply to post by Uniceft17


No one can explain the existence of homosexuality even though it is prevalent in all life forms including plants:

www.youtube.com...

It is not homosexuality that is dangerous it is the violent criticisms and reckless acceptance that causes the fatal controversies surrounding this natural state. Is it nature's way of population control or a punishment of perversion?

Who cares! It exists and if anyone wants to inform themselves of the truth of its existence then they should do the research for themselves until they are satisfied the truth of this reality has it's place within their belief system of truth.

Anyone who runs into the "group think" opinions on either side are lazy idiots who can not process real truth so they have to rely on another opinion and the preferred research which supports that opinion because they are too lazy to go to the library and learn something and they end up like thisRather than this

Thankfully ATS treats thiswhich=thislike thisso the mature members can say this

Did I mis-interperate the meaning of my being an iconoclast again!:w:

[edit on 2-4-2008 by dk3000]

Originally posted by Zealott Then again hetero sex has it's risks, but just male on male sex causes the body to oddly react.

Dare I ask you to elaborate on this? Because I am extremely curious to what that can even possibly mean.

Originally posted by niteboy82

Originally posted by Zealott Then again hetero sex has it's risks, but just male on male sex causes the body to oddly react.

Dare I ask you to elaborate on this? Because I am extremely curious to what that can even possibly mean.

I would venture to guess the "oddly" adjective became poignant due to an experience which had to do with direct investigation- be this the case- I would recommend further study

[edit on 2-4-2008 by dk3000]

I am straight myself, but I have a lot of friends who are gay, bisexual, or lesbian, and I find nothing wrong with it. I do not judge them. I have seen where one person who posted to this thread said that Gays have a large mortality rate. That has nothing to do with it at all, because straight people have a high mortality rate, too. So do Christians and Atheists and everyone in between. So I see no need to single out gays. The reason being is that if you can single out gays and 'get rid' of them, where will it all stop? It won't. The next people to go would be, if you are a Christian, the atheists and Pagans, then the Jews and Muslims, then Christians who didn't believe the way the majority christians believe. History proves this fact over and over again. I myself think it is high time that people just worried about themselves and making sure that they do what they need to do for themselves and stop worrying about those who might be different than them.

Originally posted by Wally Conley
I am straight myself, but I have a lot of friends who are gay, bisexual, or lesbian, and I find nothing wrong with it. I do not judge them. I have seen where one person who posted to this thread said that Gays have a large mortality rate. That has nothing to do with it at all, because straight people have a high mortality rate, too. So do Christians and Atheists and everyone in between. So I see no need to single out gays. The reason being is that if you can single out gays and 'get rid' of them, where will it all stop? It won't. The next people to go would be, if you are a Christian, the atheists and Pagans, then the Jews and Muslims, then Christians who didn't believe the way the majority christians believe. History proves this fact over and over again. I myself think it is high time that people just worried about themselves and making sure that they do what they need to do for themselves and stop worrying about those who might be different than them.

I had to give you a star for your insight! Many people mention BS about not being able to have children as being a defect. Well, there are many heterosexuals who have children but cannot raise them (talk about a DEFECT:shk: and therefore should not have them or give them to homosexuals who want to raise them and can provide a loving environment which a child needs to become an adult. That's the adult I would like to hear from in this conversation!

Many of the folks in here including a friend of mine appear like this to me:bnghd:






[edit on 2-4-2008 by dk3000]