Torture---which way is acceptable?

Seeing as how torture has been yet another topic of debate of our current administration, I propose a question. We know that the government is going to torture one way or the other regardless of what we think about it. So I am wondering what people would be more accepting of and why. The use of weapons such as this telepathic ray gun and others like it that are described in the article or more conventional methods such as waterboarding, sensory deprivation, etc. Or better yet, is no form of torture ever acceptable?
Telepathic ray gun, microwave gun, etc.

The U.S. Defense department has tested some spooky weapons, but those involving mind control and telepathic attack may be near the top of the list. A newly declassified 1998 document released under the U.S. Freedom of Information Act (download the pdf here), describes potential weapons for crowd control, such as a microwave gun that could beam words directly into people’s ears, and an electromagnetic pulse that causes epilepsy-like seizures.
The report also discusses a weapon that can heat a victim's body internally, producing an artificial fever. It is unknown whether the fever-inducing technology was actually tested, but the report notes that the equipment needed "is available today" and that the resulting fever would keep a victim incapacitated for "any desired period consistent with safety."

Originally posted by palehorse23
We know that the government is going to torture one way or the other regardless of what we think about it. So I am wondering what people would be more accepting of and why.

Go read the Geneva Convention.

Torture is unacceptable in any form to a civilized man with a code of honor.

There should be no debate.

reply to post by Chakotay


Well that is fine and dandy, but as we both know, society doesn't work that way. It is very unfortunate, but as there is heavy debate about the acceptable methods, I am wondering what people would consider acceptable. War isn't something a civilized man would agree with either, but that still happens and we sure do debate about that. So as you say there should be no debate, it is an appropriate question to ask.

reply to post by Chakotay


What if one person has information that can save thousands of lives and every other way to make him talk has been tried?

reply to post by The Lizard King


That is the key question. What other ways are there when all else fails? A lot of information is time sensitive I would think. So how long do you wait before you take extreme measures?

Acceptable to me is standard imprisonment. Lock them up, feed them once in a while, make sure they don't die... but don't coddle them. The state of confinement and being locked away is torture enough... there is a reason we sentence felons to a small cell and not to the torture chambers. Torture is unnecessary. And for getting information out of someone, it's a completely reckless and in-effective method.

If you ask me, torture isn't even about information anymore. It's about peoples sick desire to 'punish' supposed terrorists. There is a reason people say things like 'Well they are terrorists, we can't give them candy.' Nobody asks them to give them candy... we just ask that they do not torture them. But to the sadist, not-torturing them is like giving them candy. They want to punish them. They want to torture them. It's not about information.

reply to post by palehorse23


My personal twisted view on torture in the event it is ever necessary would be torture by heavy alcohol and drugs exposure. Sneak some crack coc aine into their food (use it as an ingredient), that should make your torture subject lose their mind and they will start talking. You'll have to figure out what is true vs what is a lie and obviously this would only work on people who do not drink or use heavy drugs. Whatever happened to the truth serum thing, is that even real? I've got a bunch of other ideas on how to torture people but maybe I should just shut up about it. We all have a dark twisted side, sometimes it wants to come out and play.

reply to post by NewWorldOver


So would you say the desire for torture is a combo of power trip, personal vendetta, and just a plain old 'sick' mind? We have definitely heard of all types of torture that have been committed throughout history. People have different levels of 'sickness'. When you think about it, murderers tend to have more of a sick mind than someone who would potentially gain something out of torture, such as the government.
I definitely agree with you on the confinement angle. Especially solitary. It is more of a slow and long term punishment that can definitely weigh more on a person's psyche. Physical pain can be overcome a lot easier than slow mental anguish.

reply to post by jitombe


As i read your post, i was thinking about the truth serum thing as well. There has to be some sort of chemical that has that effect. Whether that is considered torture is a debate in itself.
In fact it is real. Sodium Pentothal

Dorlands' Illustrated Medical Dictionary describes truth serum as "ultra-short-acting barbiturate (drug) to produce general anesthesia, … and for narcoanalysis in psychiatric disorders." The proper name for this drug is thiopental sodium; it is also called Sodium Pentothal, because it is actually a trademark of Abbott Laboratories - the drug's manufacturer.

Truth Serum

Funny how Abbott makes it. I buy a lot of reagents and DNA probes from that company for my work.



[edit on 3/21/2008 by palehorse23]

Molten lead enema often does the trick.

Molten lead enema often does the trick.

reply to post by WEOPPOSEDECEPTION


I don't think that would work for getting information. Hard to talk when you are dead.

Originally posted by palehorse23
reply to post by Chakotay

 

War isn't something a civilized man would agree with either...

Incorrect. War is a neccesary function of the State. It can only be waged by civilization, against civilization. Progressive thought is defined as a 'higher moral standard' and that requires a code of honorable conduct. As other posters have pointed out, torture is ineffective. It is immoral. There are superior technical means of extracting information that do not require gratuitous sadism.

An honorable warrior is not a sadistic animal.

Sadistic animals should be rapidly and humanely- executed.