Are Atheists Air Brushing History?

Originally posted by Howie47
By the way, it is not about keeping religion out of schools or science.
It is about keeping truth and competing Ideas in science. No religious ideology needs be taught; when implying things where intelligently created. Yet Darwinist want evolution to be taught as a religious dogma; that NO one can challenge. That dear friend; is what this movie is all about. Now run and hide. If you must.

Intelligent design is as competitive as a two-legged ass in a donkey derby.

'Darwinists' are doing what they want. They are teaching the science of evolution in science classes. And we will keep doing so. No need to hide, we're not the ones hiding creationism in a flea-bitten tuxedo.

Cheers

Originally posted by Gigatronix


Sorry, none of that proves anything. It's funny how people will just take the words of other people as truth. Anyone can find something that somebody else said that supports what they want supported.

Hey gig how ya doin today,, I guess with the glut of information out there anyone can do just that. I think anyone that knows Dawkins, even many of his colleagues see him trying to advance Atheism. They have said that is all he is about at work too. If Martin Luther King used the same tactics to advance his civil rights for blacks by mocking, or ridiculing whites, he may have not been shot.

If you are so bent on blaming atheism for things that should obviously be blamed on the weakness of humanity, then you are no better than the atheists that wnat to blame religion for the weakness of humanity.

Damn Guy that is what I've been saying for a long time and so has wraoth

Stop being so blinded by your prejudice, and realize it's not religion or the lack therof thats to blame for the ills of the world, it's the greed, ignorance, and fear of men who have power.

So can we expect to see you telling atheists the same thing when they tell us raising our kids to believe life is wonderful and with it comes responsibilty. That their are laws in our society and with those laws comes punishment. That inspite of what Mel says or Sam Harris, MOST Christians are not rasing their kids like the mother in the movie Carrie.

That unless you are going to try to get as many people to think we are their is no reason to be saying it is child abuse. That when you get as many people to agree after making a so called case to substantiate a meme backed by science, they are just doing it merely to express their freedom of speech. That after many years of many more singing the same song that when a bill goes to congress to make it against the law that is just an exhibition of our constitution at work. That unless I watch the pressures working the mechanism for where the natural selection moves the legislation until a new species of law is un-created It is just the evolution of society.

That when they take my kids away I can just say

I couldn't help it,, it was,,

the meme

- Con







[edit on 22-3-2008 by Conspiriology]

Originally posted by idle_rocker
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

 

Yes just as you lump Catholic, Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, Mormon, Church of God, and every other form of Christianity into the "Organized Religion" category.

...no, i don't
i might lump every form of christianity into the "general christianity" category
and maybe into the "abrahamic religions" category, but i tend to only do so only when it applies.

but i distinguish it quite a bit from hinduism, sikhism, certain forms of buddhism, islam, and shintoism.

We all have small differences in our religions.

and often times it's entirely superficial...
but the difference between an atheist and a spiritual anarchist is the difference between evangelical baptism and zen buddhism.

But let's call religion what it is...because any form of faith is religion in and of itself.

...um...faith without evidence maybe.

You may not worship a higher being, but if you see God in yourself, your faith is in yourself, so that is self-worship and is a religion. Or if you don't worship anything, you still have faith in your own belief, whatever it is. If you don't have faith in it, you don't believe it and are a non-believer in anything.

...no, see, you're confusing "faith" and "faith"
one being belief without evidence and the other being trusting in a situation based on evidence
i have faith in my ability to stand...that's in no way the same as believing in a pantheon of deities atop mount olympus.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

ok, for the last time
were Stalin and Mao killing in the name of atheism?
no
no they weren't
they were killing because of power and politics

I can agree with this.

To use the name Atheism in these contexts, would justify the title of the OP.

Read what I said in previous responses everyone.

This is a stereotype senerio by all concepts.

We must be careful in the words that we choose.

~Ducky~

reply to post by Conspiriology
Yes you can expect to see me calling out Atheists and religious types alike. While I am a Atheist, that doesn't mean I give radical/extreme/ignorant atheists a free pass. I'm not here to debate Hawkins or communism or Marxism or whatever, I'm here to tell people to geta grip on reality and realize that if you're a Christian, Atheists aren't your enemy. If you are an Atheist, religion is not your enemy. Greedy,ignorant, evil men are our common enemy, and instead of fighting each other we should be fighting them. I will gladly fight extreme atheists with the same gusto I'd fight extreme religious zealots. It has nothing to do with the belief system they subscribe to, and everything to do with their selfish misguided agendas.

As "The Answer" to big original question "Are Atheists Air Brushing History?" I would say: No!

I, as atheist, admit everything where there is good solid evidence, thought it would hurt my feelings.

But if evidence is not or it's feeble, I deny.

Originally posted by zephyrs
To sit and argue whether religion or the lack thereof is the greater evil is a pointless because neither a unified world religion nor the complete absence of religion would make this world a better place.

So,, where is this planet where you can make such an absolute assertion?

Just wondering

- Con

reply to post by Gigatronix


*claps*


Welcome to the club.

Honestly.

Oh yea and look forward to LOADS of frustration.

[edit on 22-3-2008 by WraothAscendant]

Originally posted by HoHoFoo
As "The Answer" to big original question "Are Atheists Air Brushing History?" I would say: No!

I, as atheist, admit everything where there is good solid evidence, thought it would hurt my feelings.

But if evidence is not or it's feeble, I deny.

Gee an atheist saying atheism had nothing absolutley nothing, notta zip, zilch, zero a thing to do with anything, not a thing, not zilch, not zip, not a damn thing to do with anything. I guess it is true we can always blame the common denominator for it, that they were all humans.


so that brings us back to doe

doe a deer a female deer,,

- Con

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


Once again Madness you need to learn to weigh the things you don't like by the same standard you weigh the things you do.

Otherwise you wear your bias on your sleeve for all to see.

Case in point the Crusades.
Remember that little conversation?
Or need I rehash?
Remember how you say it was ALL about religion and I pointed out the fact it was probly more about the rich trade routes that went through the Middle East? With the thinly veiled excuse of that silly concept we call religion?

Your doing the EXACT opposite HERE.
Because its about Atheists and it SHOWS.

Must be nice to your have own internal spin doctor.
You get to feel righteous.


[edit on 22-3-2008 by WraothAscendant]

Originally posted by Gigatronix
reply to post by Conspiriology

 

Yes you can expect to see me calling out Atheists and religious types alike. While I am a Atheist, that doesn't mean I give radical/extreme/ignorant atheists a free pass. I'm not here to debate Hawkins or communism or Marxism or whatever, I'm here to tell people to geta grip on reality and realize that if you're a Christian, Atheists aren't your enemy. If you are an Atheist, religion is not your enemy. Greedy,ignorant, evil men are our common enemy, and instead of fighting each other we should be fighting them. I will gladly fight extreme atheists with the same gusto I'd fight extreme religious zealots. It has nothing to do with the belief system they subscribe to, and everything to do with their selfish misguided agendas.

Gig,, you got me misty here lol I don't know what to say lol

ha ha ha but I like ya

- Con

Originally posted by Conspiriology
That inspite of what Mel says or Sam Harris, MOST Christians are not rasing their kids like the mother in the movie Carrie.

Don't think I said they were.

Heh, they don't need to be stark raving crazy to do such things. I actually know that not all christians put the fear of god into children. But looks like whammy has no issue with it, for one.

reply to post by Bigwhammy


Hmmm...never in ATS history (I'm surmising) have so many words been posted with so liitle attention paid to accuracy, factual relevancy, historical authority, or even inherent logical fluidity. Congratulations BW! You've really outdone yourself this time

I wouldn't want to second guess you here - but I'll give it a shot anyhow...

I'm guessing your idea of heaven on earth would be a Taliban-like theocracy in the US (with a christian slant of course...) where you and your sandal-wearing fellow fanatics can rule the roost and feel really important? Just think - mandatory church every morning for all citizens - and the chance to attend the occasional stoning of sinners on the weekends. Oh joy, oh bliss!!

People like Dawkins want to stop fanatics like you in your tracks - which is why I applaud him - and you fear him so.

J.

Originally posted by Gigatronix
reply to post by Howie47

 

Sorry, none of that proves anything. It's funny how people will just take the words of other people as truth. Anyone can find something that somebody else said that supports what they want supported.

If you are so bent on blaming atheism for things that should obviously be blamed on the weakness of humanity, then you are no better than the atheists that wnat to blame religion for the weakness of humanity.

Stop being so blinded by your prejudice, and realize it's not religion or the lack therof thats to blame for the ills of the world, it's the greed, ignorance, and fear of men who have power.

If no statistics can be accepted. Then no one should ask for statical
proof.
I made an earlier post. Stating as what you have said.
Atheism is only a tool of the despots. Not that all atheist are despots.
When atheism and Darwinism no longer serve the purpose of justifying,
their behavior. They will return to using religion.


[edit on 22-3-2008 by Howie47]

Originally posted by Howie47

Originally posted by Gigatronix
reply to post by Howie47

 

Sorry, none of that proves anything. It's funny how people will just take the words of other people as truth. Anyone can find something that somebody else said that supports what they want supported.

If you are so bent on blaming atheism for things that should obviously be blamed on the weakness of humanity, then you are no better than the atheists that wnat to blame religion for the weakness of humanity.

Stop being so blinded by your prejudice, and realize it's not religion or the lack therof thats to blame for the ills of the world, it's the greed, ignorance, and fear of men who have power.

If no statistics can be accepted. Then no one should ask for statical
proof.
I made an earlier post. Stating as what you have said.
Atheism is only a tool of the despots. Not that all atheist are despots.
When atheism and Darwinism no longer serve the purpose of justifying,
their behavior. They will return to using religion.


[edit on 22-3-2008 by Howie47]

Ermm..yeah - right. Perhaps it should read 'If no evidence can be accepted...' - which would be a far more accurate statement really.

Religion is NOT the tool of despots??? Puuleeze! Ever hear of the Taliban? No? How about the Catholic Church? No? Hmm... The Church Of England? What about The Jewish religion in your sacred rag The Bible? That book is crammed to overflowing with tales of genocide, mass murder and the pillaging of other peoples who did not share the jewish obsession with burning bushes and stone tablets.

Good try though...

J.

Originally posted by jimbo999
reply to post by Bigwhammy

 

I wouldn't want to second guess you here - but I'll give it a shot anyhow...

I'm guessing your idea of heaven on earth would be a Taliban-like theocracy in the US (with a christian slant of course...) where you and your sandal-wearing fellow fanatics can rule the roost and feel really important? Just think - mandatory church every morning for all citizens - and the chance to attend the occasional stoning of sinners on the weekends. Oh joy, oh bliss!!

People like Dawkins want to stop fanatics like you in your tracks - which is why I applaud him - and you fear him so.

J.

Actually nothing could be further from the truth. We want to be allowed to raise our children as we see fit without a secularist, atheistic government (that seems to be wanted by some) telling us we can't use the Bible and it's stories to teach our children. I didn't raise my children to fear God and neither do I fear God. I wasn't afraid of dying or hell before I became a Christian. The only fear I have is government stepping in telling me how I have to raise my children and that I can't teach them an alternative to evolution if that's what I want to do.

No one is advocating a Talibanist-theocratic type government here. We just don't want our freedoms replaced with atheistic (what you call freedom) dogma. Actually, I don't care what you believe of why you believe it. That's your choice. But my choice is mine and I don't want my freedom of choice taken away any more than you do.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul




um...faith without evidence maybe.

You don't believe in God so you don't believe in the evidence., you don't believe in the evidence because you don't believe in God

...no, see, you're confusing "faith" and "faith"

Faith is like I have the sun is going to rise in the morning but if you knew God and you don't, if you understood and you most certainly dont and never will because why??

one being belief without evidence and the other being trusting in a situation based on evidence

Chorus and SING!!

You don't believe in God so you don't believe in the evidence., you don't believe in the evidence because you don't believe in God

i have faith in my ability to stand...that's in no way the same as believing in a pantheon of deities atop mount olympus.

That's just it,, it doesn't for us either. So what is the difference? The way to the evidence you don't seek and don't want to is WHY you keep MISSING THE POINT

Chorus and sing!

C'mon everyone! Join in!

You kill me maddness ha ha ha

- Con

[edit on 22-3-2008 by Conspiriology]

Originally posted by idle_rocker

Originally posted by jimbo999
reply to post by Bigwhammy

 

I wouldn't want to second guess you here - but I'll give it a shot anyhow...

I'm guessing your idea of heaven on earth would be a Taliban-like theocracy in the US (with a christian slant of course...) where you and your sandal-wearing fellow fanatics can rule the roost and feel really important? Just think - mandatory church every morning for all citizens - and the chance to attend the occasional stoning of sinners on the weekends. Oh joy, oh bliss!!

People like Dawkins want to stop fanatics like you in your tracks - which is why I applaud him - and you fear him so.

J.

Actually nothing could be further from the truth. We want to be allowed to raise our children as we see fit without a secularist, atheistic government (that seems to be wanted by some) telling us we can't use the Bible and it's stories to teach our children. I didn't raise my children to fear God and neither do I fear God. I wasn't afraid of dying or hell before I became a Christian. The only fear I have is government stepping in telling me how I have to raise my children and that I can't teach them an alternative to evolution if that's what I want to do.

No one is advocating a Talibanist-theocratic type government here. We just don't want our freedoms replaced with atheistic (what you call freedom) dogma. Actually, I don't care what you believe of why you believe it. That's your choice. But my choice is mine and I don't want my freedom of choice taken away any more than you do.

Nobody is stopping you from teaching your kids whatever you want - or ever has...at home. But equally - we (the majority) equally have the right to ensure that our children are not brain-washed into any type of religious belief in the schools that we pay our taxes towards. Religion should be a personal choice - not something imposed upon from above - wether that be school or government.

I disagree with your assumptions about BW - I've seen his work here on these forums for too long now - and it has all the hallmarks of a religious fanatic....

J.

reply to post by jimbo999

any type of religious belief

Except atheistic religious beliefs you mean.

"God" and religion have NOTHING to do with each other.

Religions use their respective deity and rituals surrounding said deity to turn people away from knowing "God" for themselves.

Any time someone says they are the path to knowing or not knowing "God" they are a liar.

"God" is NOT a deity or being within or outside of the universe. "God" is not "in" everything. "God" IS everything, every last littile bit of anything science could ever imagine they could study.

How stupid do people have to be to not understand that you will NEVER be able to step far enough back from "God" to say you've seen and understand it all.

Only "God", which is infinite, will ever experience itself fully.

There is a selfish attitude about god among the religious that is very self serving. Whenever I hear someone speak about their false deity or lack thereof all I hear is "me this and me that, god's like me and not you or science tells me this therefore god is not real, etc."

There are no deities, those that say the false gods of religion do not exist are correct. There is only "God" of which everything is a part of.

Those that say science will have an answer everything. This may one day happen ( ) but even if it does, science has only been studying "God" the entire time. Those that think "God" is limited to being the universe are mistaken, the universe only describes the area from the Big Bang to its current expansion.

There is no source for the big bang but science like to forget that matter can not be created or destroyed. The religious tell you some deity plopped it into existence, the scientatheists tell you it expands and collpases or whatever other crap theory science pops out with.

Energy transfers forms, it will do so indefinately. Einstein tells us about relativity, your perspective of your surrounding and how you perceive them. We have NO idea what size we actually are or how many fractions of reality "God" can contain. We exist within a certain spectrum of light. Your reality is based on your perception of wavelengths of a certain range. There are beings of all types that span all ranges of frequency. No matter how fantastic any being in any reality may be, it is not "God" and never will be.

Anything in existence is a part of "God", "God" does not exist as a whole within itself.

PS
Atheism is a religion, you buy too many books about false gods not to be.

[edit on 3/22/2008 by Spoodily]