Truckers ‘going broke’ and threatening to strike

The UK banning truckers strikes is capitalist facism. If the truckers can't strike they have only one option when they don't make enough money, and that is to quit. I don't think it would be a bad thing if the US government tried to play hardball with some of these OPEC countries and threatened to install a whole ton of renewable generating capacity to lower oil demand. I completely support the truckers. Truckers should make near the top of the blue collar income bracket as it's the most essential thing in society besides farming.

Double post.

[edit on 22-3-2008 by Merle8]

In reply to some of the people who were posting about NAFTA and Mexican truckers only being allowed to DC's and to Canada, this may be the case for a little bit, but you better be damned sure eventually they will start giving them a little more, then a tiny bit more then that, till eventually they are working just as much area as the domestic truckers. I hope to god it wont happen, but you better be damned sure that once its completed and in place, that all these businesses with the price of rising fuel costs will look for a way to find cheap workers. Then its just a bit of lobbying the politicians, getting a few bills passed, and it welcome the end of American trucking.

Also, most jobs will be outsourced to Mexico due to free trade as well - so why not just load the trucks up there and have them deliver it, instead of having them pick it up in Mexico, drop it off at an American DC, have a domestic driver pick it up from the DC, then drop it off to the destination? It might work like that for a tiny bit, but it surely is not cost effective, and you know thats exactly what business is all about, cost effectiveness. Mexican labor is the cheapest you can get, and you better be damn sure they are going to get it, eventually.

I worked for a brief time for a trucking company,back in 80's majority of the freight was shipped to custom's house in Mexico,for years majority of the name brand appliances TV's furniture is assembled there.I figured it would be a matter of time before they did deliverys as well,and as far as gas prices rising I think it effects much more then the trucking industry,these times seperate the men from the boy's just like in the 80's,nothing new

“Our federal government is subsidizing railroads, airlines, banks and farmers,” he said. “Meanwhile, we’re being taxed to death.”

www.qctimes.com...

Wall Street could be added to that list. Every time the Fed cuts interests rates it's like giving Wall Street more money to play with.

So the Fed took the extraordinary step of lowering the cost of borrowing to 3%, which placed it a full 2.85% below the official blended inflation rate (and much lower still below what many people believe to be real inflation rates). In effect, what the Fed is saying is:

"Take our money. Please take our money! If free isn't good enough, how about if we pay you to borrow money? In fact, here's what we'll do. If you will borrow $1 million from us, we will let you pay us back with only $941,500, next year. In other words, we'll pay you $58,500, which is the difference between the value of the million dollars you borrow today, and the value of the million dollars with which you will pay us back a year from now (after extrapolating the last 12 months of blended inflation). Now, we will ask you to pay us $30,000 in interest (3% on one million). But that's not all bad! Because we will let you deduct the $30,000 in interest expenses, which could save you $9,000 in taxes (30% combined marginal federal and state). If you take the $58,500 difference in value between what you borrow and what you have to pay back, subtract the $30,000 in interest expense, and then add back the $9,000 in tax savings on the interest expense -- that means that we are paying you a net of $37,500 on an after-inflation and after-tax basis. All you have to do in exchange is to agree to take the use of this million dollars off our hands for a year.

"Won't you please, PLEASE take the money?"

(Yes, 3% is an overnight rate and not an annual rate, but the principles are easier to understand if we annualize. There are many complexities we do not have the room to go into this article intended for the general public, instead we are concentrating on the impact upon investors.)

www.safehaven.com...

...the Federal Reserve needs to cut its benchmark rate to 2 percent, reduce the discount rate to match it, and ``broaden access'' to the discount window where banks get government-subsidized temporary loans, he said. The Fed lowered the benchmark interest rate to 3 percent on Jan. 30, the second cut in nine days.

www.bloomberg.com...

Discount window:

The discount window is an instrument of monetary policy (usually controlled by central banks) that allows eligible institutions to borrow money from the central bank, usually on a short-term basis, to meet temporary shortages of liquidity caused by internal or external disruptions.

en.wikipedia.org...

On September 18, 2007, the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve announced [1] a temporary change to primary credit lending terms. The discount rate was cut by 50 bp — to 5.25% from 5.75% — and the term of loans was extended from overnight to up to thirty days. (The federal funds rate was cut by 50 bp to 4.75% [2])

On March 16, 2008, the Federal Reserve announced [3] significant and temporary changes to primary credit lending terms. The term of loans was extended from up to thirty days, to up to ninety days. In contrast, less than a year ago, the term was only overnight. It also allowed collateralization of such loans by a broad range of investment-grade debt securities.

en.wikipedia.org...-8_.27credit_crunch.27

[1] www.federalreserve.gov...
[2] www.federalreserve.gov...
[3] federalreserve.gov...

Well, if this strike happens (which I kinda hope it does) one of two things is gonna likely happen. 1) Gas prices will drop (which is why I would want the strike to happen) 2)Gas prices will stay the same or go up, which will take the legs out from under the industry, nobody delievers, nobody orders, nobody makes money. Not really a good thing I suppose.

The fuel mileage on most trucks is about 6 mpg, and if you figure cost at 4$ a gallon, it comes to 67 cpm.
I only make 33 cpm, so I'm glad my company pays for fuel otherwise I would be running a 34 cpm deficit. Owner operators and independents get paid more but they also buy their own fuel, some of them receive a fuel surcharge, but it's usually only about 20%. There are a lot of other costs for them also such as insurance, truck payments, taxes and registrations.
If they do go on strike I'm debating whether to turn in my keys to show my support . I could use a vacation anyway, it's taxing to be on the road a month at a time, sometimes not having any idea what's going on at home.

I just wanted to stop in and make a post in my show of support to all truckers, and those here on ATS. I really do feel for you guys!
I know working in the food industry I depend on you guys to get my food to my store. And I can say the price of all my stock has gone way up!
Due to high gas prices, less people are going out to eat.. And the cost is going way up!!!
Something is brewing here, and we sertinly need our independent truckers out there!! As this may be a ploy to destory those independents and force them all into the corp. monster that has taken over in all areas of this country.
You have my support, and I will be keeping an eye out, and will come back if I happen to find anything new myself..

Edit- Just to add.. I was laided off my job as a cook, mainly becasue of the high food costs. And not enough people going out to eat. My boss said he mostly blames high gas prices. People that use to drive many miles to come eat, stay in, or dont drive as far. The cost goes up and we all pay the price. Right down the line. Truckers are extreamly important.
I cant stress enough how important they are.
Such as if you see food cost going up, its not becasue of the food is more expensive, but the trucks that have to drive it to and fro, must charge more becasue of the high gas rates.

Lucky for me being a cook its easy to find a new job. I can work anywhere in the world with this trade.. Same with truckers.. You can work anywhere. But its those who are independent who suffer the most.. (besides the corp ones who have to cut back on their fleets due to gas prices.)

I feel for you guys, as Im part of that food chain.. And it goes down the line and many will suffer at the hands of corperate dogs who make money off hard working people like us.. Damn shame really. When this country was noted for being a place where people could make an honest living.
Now if you are not corperated, you have to fight to make ends meat.




[edit on 23-3-2008 by zysin5]

Truckers have my support! (and please drive considerately )

From what I hear trucking in the UK has been decimated by cheaper workers from Eastern Europe.

Gotta take note of the French here: they don't just strike, they blockade. But I'm not sure it would work in the USA. From what a previous poster said, it didn't work in the UK.

We as cultures should be stopping the speculation on oil which is inflating the prices in a manner unconnected to actual cost. We need to legislate. Why aren't we?

[edit on 22-3-2008 by rizla]

reply to post by finnegan

That's about it, my foreman's dad is an owner/operator contracted, and when he goes out he gets $800 advanced, and another $800 advance on the return trip. He's spending about twice that with a 2000 Longnose Pete, under full load. I'm pretty sure he's getting re-imbursement from it, but he still has to take it out if his pocket to make the run.

Also, I'm glad to see so many truckers stepping up and telling how it is, and the support that the readers here are offering. We really need to pull together as a whole and fight to get this situation resolved.

There's no reason for the oil companies to increase prices other than pure greed. When they can post a $36 BILLION profit for one year, it's pretty obvious that it's not about production.

All I can say is HELL YEAH!! Truckers and farmers and all working people have to realize we have power and won't let the rug be pulled out from under us anymore.

Those wall street snots have the nerve to undermine the very people who see to it that they are fed and clothed !! That is unacceptable, and so perverse when you think about it.

High five to all truckers; and great thread!

Peace.

This last week I was just laid off from my job at a freight truck repair shop. We usually serviced corporate freight liners like FedEx and USF Holland, but we aslo fixed up trucks from the coal terminal and ship yards. It was rare that we fixed an "independent" truck. The price-gouging of diesel isn't only hurting the independents; most of the corporates we worked are cutting back their fleets, meaning less less trucks to repair.

When the truckers have to cut corners, repair shops must do the same.
When repair shops start hurting, so do the parts suppliers.
If parts suppliers lose business, I imagine the manufacturers shall, also.

I lost my job because the shop was no longer profitable and I was the most junior technician. I can't imagine what sort of ripple effects are being felt in agriculture.

First off let me say as a former trucker i feel for you guys that are out there right now. I loved ridin up and down the highway taking in the sights from all over the US.

So the truckers might go on strike for a week. What impact will that have on fuel prices? absolutely nothing. lets face it, the only drivers that can strike are union drivers.( fedex, ups etc.) company drivers can't strike. if they refuse to take a load most companies will fire them in a heartbeat! owner operators can strike if they belong to a union. But i don't think many owner ops belong to a union. they can't afford the union dues on top of fuel, insurance, and maintenace costs. So what happens if an owner op stops his truck in protest? more than likely he'll go out of buisness and have to sell his truck, and look for another job, more than likely as a company driver.

in away the most of the owner ops brought on there financial situation themselves, with poor business management, and financial restraint. when your spending thousands of dollars to add chrome to every inch of your truck that you can put chrome to hundreds of lights on your truck. What does all that eye candy do to add productivity to your truck? Nothing! it just takes money out of your pocket that you should have invested somewhere else.

Now fuel is $4 a gallon on average and going up every day with no end in sight. they've spent all their money to turn a truck that gets the job done with nothing really fancy to a "chicken truck" ( drivers will know what that means)

the only owner operators that are surviving right now are the ones that had their heads on straight and done some planning, but even with that planning they are barely breaking even. and now trucks are being mandated to use fuel that is proven to get less mpg making the trucks to be less productive. there has been a driver shortage for years, and there won't be a flood of foriegn drivers imported in to take up domestic slack. if the government was going to allow that it would have happened years ago.

If the owner ops wanted to improve their profit margin they would have traded in there long nose pete's and KW's for something more streamlined that gets better mpg. yeah that look like %^&* but hey they do get better mpg. also if the ones that drive 100 mph slowed down a little bit they wouldn't use as much fuel.

To my fellow drivers, keep the shinny side up and the greasy side down, and if you do strike while i might not agree with you, you have my support! because without you everything we buy in the store would not be there.

My support goes out to all you truckers!!

Here is a bit of info that I've been following in the last 6 months....

Why Warren Buffett is buying railroads

...Warren Buffett has been loading up on shares of Burlington Northern Santa Fe and was buying in January at prices only 13% below current levels...

...Railroads are far more energy-efficient than their competition. Locomotives today get 80% more mileage from a gallon of diesel than they did in 1980. As a result, trains consume far less fuel than trucks do to move the same amount of freight.

That not only saves on costs, it reduces emissions of greenhouse gases. In fact, the Environmental Protection Agency calculates that for distances of more than 1,000 miles, using trains rather than trucks alone reduces fuel consumption and greenhouse gas emissions by 65%...

money.cnn.com...

The article goes on to say about the fuel efficiency of the new locomotives and even mentions how NAFTA will play a role.

This man is a very astute investor or ...maybe he has inside knowledge...

I vote for the latter. He understand where this increase in the price of gas is heading and he will be very well positioned to "own" the USA. That is, if he doesn't already.

IMO, it's all about control and the more centralized the distribution and less players in the field...well you know the rest.

A few more:
www.usatoday.com...
www.businessweek.com...

[edit on 23-3-2008 by brownflyer]

>Congress has spent hundreds of billions and you have a mess in Iraq, a mess in Afghanistan, truckers that are going on strike, many house fore closers, lots of job layoffs, spiraling school systems, a huge Mexican drug cartel on the Texas border, high gas prices.........I can keep on going. Your congress and president are honestly not working out too well for your country. If this keeps on going the country will turn into chaos.

>If your country continues on this route you will have farmers that can't deliver goods to stores because truckers are on strike, poverty through the roof, many drop-outs, lots of street crimes, groceries costing you an arm and a leg, bigger corrupt law makers getting paid by drug lords and the who knows what else can happen.

>USA was called the land of opportunities, it should be kept that way! It got hijacked by congress and the presidency.

BTW all you truckers have my support all the way from Canada. My uncle is a trucker from Texas.

[edit on 23-3-2008 by Equinox99]

I always wanted to truck . . .

I think I will wait until my kids graduate, though

The problem here is that the big companies already want any excuse too start shipping everything by rail. so in the end the strike will just hurt truckers the most. hell the gov could put in many more rail lines at our expense and damn near do away with OTR in a fairly short time. it costs far less too ship by rail, and then ship short trips from there. i feel for the truckers, but in the end I think we will be going back to trains. Eco friendly trains is what we will see next. plus you can run a train on water.......as long as you can make heat.

Trains are great for those products that absolutely have to be there in a week or more. However, there aren't enough of them, they can't get into most areas trucks can, and they're too slow for a LOT of products that trucks haul. Yes they're cheaper, but when you're facing a plant shutdown because that product on the train didn't get there on time, as opposed to bringing it in on a truck, you're gonna pay more for the truck.

Don't forget that trains can't deliver right to the grocery stores, or restaurants or any stores. The best they can do is deliver to a warehouse and form there they would need trucks to deliver the goods.

My 2 cents

Wow, I am truly touched by all the support. Thank you to every one of you. And I am glad top see other truckers are on here as well to back me up. The public really needs to understand what's happening.

I got into trucking after a nervous breakdown in my old career (which I try hard to forget). I went in with no preconceived notions, save the one that truckers were rough, tough, and had hearts of gold, and it was a good thing I did. I learned that was the only thing I was correct about, for the most part. But that is changing, and NwestJagsfan stated the reason very well. A lot of schools do not prepare the students, and the old ways of experienced trainer/trainee are disappearing. This is due to that high Federal subsidy for training drivers and the need for more drivers on the road, not to mention that the trucking industry pay has not even come close with keeping up with other industries pay increase, so a lot of the old trainers are leaving.

For anyone who is interested in being a driver, know what you're in for! It's not a bad job, but it does require a special type of person and does not operate like most people think. Anyone who wants more info, feel free to U2U me. I don't know it all, but I know what I have seen

Don't expect a real strike anytime soon. I have seen drivers get into a serious argument in a truck stop diner over what time it is. You really think they'll agree on a strike? And the company drivers will lose their jobs if they try, unless every driver goes along with it. That is simply not going to happen. As I said before, it's not a strike, but a forced shutdown.

As to the Mexican truck issue, I noticed a few drivers who aren't aware of what's happening with Congress vs. the USDOT. If you have XM, tune to Open Road (ch. 171) every day at 19:00 for OOIDA's Land Line Now. In the last few weeks, I remember one day that this issue didn't come up, and that in itself was mentioned as a story! Have a smoke at the ready, because what is going on will make your blood boil. Of course, you can always check it out on OOIDA's web site too. Mexican trucks are running loose in the US.

Trains have been mentioned. Yes, they require less fuel per ton, but they do not go everywhere (see any train depots around the local grocery store?), so trucks will still be needed. They also take longer. A truck can turn a Georgia-Cal load in two days with a team, 3 1/2 with a good solo driver. The average train for the same run takes two weeks. The rates are cheaper, but not that much cheaper from what I have been told. Then you have the costs to warehouse and reship the goods to the customer on short-haul trucks.

Now add to that equation the fact that there are not nearly enough trains available to replace the trucks. Just an educated guess, we'd need at least ten times the trains we have to do the job. So anyone who's thinking about getting those big clumsy things out of your way, imagine sitting at R/R crossings instead.

A few personal responses:
WorldShadow: Thanks for your inside info. I have seen what some of my dispatchers go through, and it's not pretty. I also know that load planners have a hard time as well, and can make or break a driver just as easily as a dispatcher. For what it's worth, I consider those guys in the office just as vital as we are.

Ahabstar: The Bozo is still there, same as always. He's just on XM now, Open Road (ch. 171) from 16:00 to 19:00. Give him a call sometime, I'm sure he'd be glad to hear from you (and send you down the road a bit Private joke for those who don't know the Bozo.)

Also, I drive for JB Hunt since last November, and for what it's worth they have treated me like a king. Of course, that's in the DCS (dedicated retail) division, don't know about OTR.

jackinthebox: If you're serious, get your CDL now. There are some serious changes that the FMCSA is planning on putting into effect soon, and while I think they're a good idea, they will make it a lot harder to get that pretty little piece of plastic.

rizla: Thanks. I know we are usually on opposite sides of most issues, so your support is especially meaningful.

TheRedneck