Is it a Conspiracy or a Discussion on Faith?

Originally posted by yahn goodey

 

you got started with: 1. greed 2. lust 3.?
scripture wise what i find is 7 abominations Yahvah hates: 1.haughty eyes 2.a lying tongue 3.hands that shed innocent blood 4. feet that run rapidly to evil 5. a heart that devises wicked plans 6. a false witness who utters lies 7. 1 who spreads strife among brothers.(proverbs 6:16-19)
so are these the 7 you/ats defines meaning religious conspiracy?

Remarkably, a close scrutiny of the Terms and Conditions of this website could find a few of those sins, but they are not part of those rules. ATS is NOT a Christian religion, after all.

Listed in the same order used by both Pope Gregory the Great in the 6th Century AD, and later by Dante Alighieri in his epic poem The Divine Comedy, the seven deadly sins are as follows: Luxuria (extravagance, later lust), Gula (gluttony), Avaritia (greed), Acedia (sloth), Ira (wrath), Invidia (envy), and Superbia (pride). Each of the seven deadly sins has an opposite among the corresponding seven holy virtues (sometimes also referred to as the contrary virtues). In parallel order to the sins they oppose, the seven holy virtues are chastity, abstinence, temperance, diligence, patience, kindness, and humility.

en.wikipedia.org...

To apply the sins as a method to scry conspiracies is quite apt, I believe, since the pure Golden Rule must be broken by the conspirators in order to benefit from their crimes. The sins are the product of mankind's nasty cunning nature while the purity of the Golden Rule, or God's will, stands above it all.

A great discussion point!

Now, if we were able to name the religious conspirators and identify their plotting and the reason for it, you would find most of those reasons listed among the Seven Deadly Sins and have a true religious conspiracy.



www.deadlysins.com...




[edit on 22/3/08 by masqua]

Originally posted by masqua

So, religion HAS a purpose and it IS a positive influence.

For people with similar beliefs but for others it meant slavery, murder, discrimination, control it's best accomplishment has been to divide and keep the human race divided.

Can you show me a example of a Christian society that is or was Good?

And just what purpose does religion serve? Other than the above mentioned things?

It never has united us, it has never brought peace, it never has brought love to the world, perhaps in the individual it has and the ones that have the same view or belief.

You quote above, and the belief in it is a conspiracy. Because that statement is Very debatable.

reply to post by LDragonFire



[I stated: "So, religion HAS a purpose and it IS a positive influence"]

For people with similar beliefs but for others it meant slavery, murder, discrimination, control it's best accomplishment has been to divide and keep the human race divided.

The usurping of religion by greedy individuals is not the domain of God, but rather the failings of mankind.

Can you show me a example of a Christian society that is or was Good?

Probably not within the past 2000 years. As an agnostic, I do not believe in any organized religion; none, zip, zero. However, I do believe that a Creator exists within the hearts of all of us.

It is that very organization of religion which speaks to me of manipulation by mankind in the effort to control and enslave.

Yet, I believe in the tendency for good in all of us. That, to me, is THE clue to our Creator.

If I we're to choose a 'Christian' religion, it would be one which may or may not have had Jesus participate... but yet something organized.

I would choose the one which I believe Jesus studied and aligned himself with, not as written in the New Testament, but as found in the Qumran scrolls.

Perhaps the Essenes were pure of heart, perhaps not. 2000 years after their purge by the Romans does not leave us much to know about them except for the words in the scrolls themselves.

And just what purpose does religion serve? Other than the above mentioned things?

To evoke kindness and fellowship among each other through following the Golden Rule.

It never has united us, it has never brought peace, it never has brought love to the world, perhaps in the individual it has and the ones that have the same view or belief.

That is due to our own failings as we deceive and scheme to break the Golden Rule.

You quote above, and the belief in it is a conspiracy. Because that statement is Very debatable.

It isn't the belief in, or adherance to, the Golden Rule, but rather the failings of mankind; by stooping to those abovementioned Seven Deadly Sins which lead us into conspiring to defraud.

reply to post by masqua


thanks for the conspiracy angle list of the 7 deadly sins and its opposite the golden rule.

now hopefully i can use your info to not get involved in a religious conspiracy thread in an illegal manner.

I can appreciate this thread in that I have been drawn in to many a debate about Religion. But I think where the problem lies is that the Religious debate is in the BTS forum. I don't know for sure, but that "seems" to make it a lesser debate than what is on ATS and I think most debaters prefer to stay at ATS.

I could be wrong of course and haven't been a member long enough to know for sure, but that is my take on it.

Masqua you know my beliefs and I know yours and we respect each other. It's hard to build that respect in a Religion forum because they get so heated. I don't really know what the answer is, but I suspect it might be that there be a religious forum allowed at ATS. Perhaps the Religion forum itself could be divided into different mini-forums to keep the subjects more on track. I dunno, just food for thought.

Originally posted by masqua

Thank you, heliosprime, for providing, in this topic alone, a wealth of conspiracy related material.

Great thanks...........NOW.......how is this different (templars) from the similar story of "st Patrick" converting the entire Isle of Ireland in only 30 years when there is much evidence that he and others destroyed pre-existing christian faiths dating back the Joseph of aramathia(sp?). They may have even killed pre-existing preists in favor of the "catholic" faith. Dogma or discussion of a grand conspiracy?

Originally posted by heliosprime
st Patrick" converting the entire Isle of Ireland in only 30 years when there is much evidence that he and others destroyed pre-existing christian faiths dating back the Joseph of aramathia(sp?). They may have even killed pre-existing preists in favor of the "catholic" faith. Dogma or discussion of a grand conspiracy?

That the followers of Jesus (the true Christianity as carried on by His brother James) were pursued and killed wherever found is a story that I have read about, including their eventual retreat all the way to Ireland.

However, I can't immediately find a reference book in my library which discusses it. Could you please supply a title and author(s)?

That they were systematically harrassed is true, though. We can look to Paul for that effort prior to (and, imo, secretly thereafter) in order to satisfy his Roman masters.

Yes, it IS a conspiracy in regard to the suppression of the early true Christians, but on St. Patrick, I have little to present other than Robert Graves' strange book; The White Goddess, which really is a difficult read.

Originally posted by idle_rocker
But I think where the problem lies is that the Religious debate is in the BTS forum. I don't know for sure, but that "seems" to make it a lesser debate than what is on ATS and I think most debaters prefer to stay at ATS.

And here lies the nub of the problem. There is a tendency, imo, of members to see BTS as a place not worthy of their time or effort. why is that? ATS is, pretty much, a board commited to conspiracy theories while BTS is not. I believe there is also a tendency by the membership to avoid AP in all things political.

If the membership wants to avoid these alternative boards, how can we concentrate on conspiracy at the ATS board?

I could be wrong of course and haven't been a member long enough to know for sure, but that is my take on it.

I've suspected the same so I'm glad you brought it up.

Masqua you know my beliefs and I know yours and we respect each other. It's hard to build that respect in a Religion forum because they get so heated. I don't really know what the answer is, but I suspect it might be that there be a religious forum allowed at ATS. Perhaps the Religion forum itself could be divided into different mini-forums to keep the subjects more on track. I dunno, just food for thought.

A divided religion forum on ATS is an alternative, but there will still be the need to keep theology and conpiracy debates seperated, complete with staff 'thread moves'. We'd be no further ahead by bringing them closer together, imo. Good suggestion, though... and such ideas are exactly what is needed in this thread so that we can work things out to benefit the membership and the site as a whole.

[off-topic]BTW... love your new avvy [/off-topic]

Originally posted by masqua

I believe there is also a tendency by the membership to avoid AP in all things political.

The very mindset of the conspiracy-theorist says that politics is only a show orchestrated for the sheep. Thats the simple explanation why AP is not that popular. Its people with this type of mindset that come here.

reply to post by Skyfloating


But, then WHY do we have BTS and PTS other than to seperate conspiracies from pure politics and religious debate?

It seems senseless that those boards should languish.

On the other hand, the Faith, Spirituality and Theology forum on BTS is absolutely hopping, while US Politics in PTS is also strong, but to a slightly lesser degree.

I know the Canadian Politics forum is deader than a bar on Sunday morning.

Originally posted by masqua
Yes, it IS a conspiracy in regard to the suppression of the early true Christians, but on St. Patrick, I have little to present other than Robert Graves' strange book; The White Goddess, which really is a difficult read.

Hope this helps..........

"traditionally… Saint Patrick has been credited with converting the entire Irish race from paganism in the very short period between 432 and 461… however, we have to admit that there were certainly Christians in Ireland before Patrick arrived… and that the saint worked as an evangelist only in part of the island [the north]" (Walsh and Bradley, p. 1)

snip....

Irish writer Liam de Paor wrote that "Ireland was not converted by one man [Patrick]… it may be that Christianity reached the west country [of Britain] and the southern Irish sea virtually independent of the Roman system, at a very early date… centuries before Patrick" (Paor, pp. 21, 23). There are traditions that the Apostle James preached the gospel in Ireland before returning to Jerusalem, where he was martyred (see MacManus, The Story of the Irish Race, p. 103).

www.tomorrowsworld.org...

This article has tons of historical references........see 'Facts N fables" paragraph

reply to post by heliosprime




Thanks for that lovely bit of information. I have read of this before, like I said previously, but couldn't remember exactly where.

James as the bringer of the true Christianity to Ireland would make a great thread in the Conspiracy in Religions forum. With the added bonus of the St. Patrick Catholic influence coupled with the recent 'troubles', plus the rise of the Templars since their roots have an Irish angle as well, there certainly is lots of meat for conspiracy theories.

Here's another one to research... who stood to gain by torching the library at Alexandria?

Hey Masqua, I have another question. Why do we have to log in again when changing from ATS to BTS? It just seems odd to me that I'm logged in at ATS but I have to log in again to go to BTS? Maybe I'm doing something wrong? And maybe this isn't the place to ask this question, but I did it anyway

reply to post by idle_rocker



I have to log into each board seperately as well, I_R.

We can blame Bill Gates, since it's a problem prone to Windows.

Oh...MY BAD? I just knew it was a conspiracy to make us log into the BTS thread...hee hee...you know I'm kidding you.

reply to post by idle_rocker


log in to bts: use your (my ats) and add faith, spirituality & theology to your favourite forums.this alleviates the problem of re loggin if you use your (my ats)

reply to post by masqua

years ago while searching in a library for books that might help me find where the church/assembly/congregation that Messiah said He would build,might be found i came across,the encyclopedia of american religions, 2nd edition.
i photo copied just a few pages .this book gives you their understanding of what each church they had found teaches and lists other books where they got their doctrins from.

one book they list is written by j.h.allen in 1902 called judah's sceptre and joseph's birthright.

i haven't been able to obtain it but i have read in other books that it tells us where the 10 "lost" tribes of israel can be located----england/ commonwealth,usa and north western european countries.

on pages 228/229 of allen's book he says that in 585 bce a patriarch/saint came to ulster ,also a jewish princess and in their company was a simon brach -------biblically baruch(jeremiah 36:4) was the prophet jeremiah's assistant.