Evidence for Ocean Found at Saturn's Moon Titan

An ocean seasoned with the chemical ingredients of life may lie hidden beneath the icy surface of Saturn's moon Titan.

The evidence? The entire surface of Titan appears to be sliding around, scientists say, like cheese over tomato sauce on a slice of pizza.

Titan is the largest of the more than 50 known moons orbiting Saturn, and is in fact bigger than the planet Mercury. Titan possesses a thick, planet-like atmosphere — the only moon in the solar system known to have one. And the Cassini-Huygens mission to Saturn and its moons revealed a surface at Titan covered with icy mountains, oily lakes and seas and what might be "cryovolcanoes" that spew plumes of water and ammonia.

Scientists had long suspected that an underground ocean might exist on Titan, much as Jupiter's moons Ganymede, Callisto and Europa do.

"Models of heat flow in Titan's interior suggested years ago that Titan would likely have an internal water or water-ammonia ocean," said Ralph Lorenz, a Cassini radar team member at the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Lab in Laurel, Md.




This image shows bodies of liquid near Titan's north pole. It show that many of the features commonly associated with lakes on Earth, such as islands, bays, inlets and channels, are also present on this cold Saturnian moon. Credit: NASA/JPL

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This is really exciting. I hope we send more probes to Titan to see what is lurking there.

Open Water on Titan? That must mean that at the surface the temp will only be 0 C - very warm compared to Titans normal temp of -130 C. If the seas are kept warm by Tidal heating from Saturn then this is a going to be a great place for the human race to settle. I heard the seas on Titan contain all sorts of hydrocarbons and interesting organic matter too.

Maybe this is where we should go to Titan instead of mars?

Titan Surf Report:

FRIDAY- NW solar heated methane windswell picked up a bit more today, adding blowouts as NW groundswell was easing and a touch of Southern Hemi swell also mixed in. Not exactly sick, with many NW exposed breaks only around ankle high, and standout spots hitting knee high sets.

Originally posted by oinkment
Maybe this is where we should go to Titan instead of mars?

Maybe we should just stop destroying the planet we're already on and stop fighting on the planet we're already on rather than taking our pollution, garbage and war to another body in the Solar System?

We're like the trailer trash neighbor in the high class neighborhood. I have doubts that we even have a right to exist on the planet we're on given the way we treat it, much less another planet or moon.

[edit on 3/21/08 by NovusOrdoMundi]

This is incredible news! If Titian also has methane present on the surface, it is a perfect candidate for terraforming.

If it were hypothetically viable to ignite the methane somehow, there would be even more water and carbon dioxide, which could be used to grow plants there.

I hope someone at NASA takes a careful look at this possibility, as we could well have found the first place other than mars which is a suitable match for terraforming.

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi

Originally posted by oinkment
Maybe this is where we should go to Titan instead of mars?

Maybe we should just stop destroying the planet we're already on and stop fighting on the planet we're already on rather than taking our pollution, garbage and war to another body in the Solar System?

We're like the trailer trash neighbor in the high class neighborhood. I have doubts that we even have a right to exist on the planet we're on given the way we treat it, much less another planet or moon.

[edit on 3/21/08 by NovusOrdoMundi]

And in the midst of the trailer park there is inventiveness and genius beyond compare.

What right do we have to go to other planets? Well, its the resurgence of the old "Might is right" argument. If we are capable of it, we deserve it.

Sure we need to clean up our planet, but why not establish from scratch a new outpost in space where we take only that which is desirable from our planet and leave behind what is undesirable?

Migration is not a bad thing... Migration out of Africa produced the civilizations of Europe and Asia and in turn migration out of Europe produced America.

You see, migration is a positive method of selecting only the best. Only those with the drive and vision to move are capable of it. Those who wish to continue living under their squalid rock are doomed to ignominy.

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi


It's nice of you to make a note of our responsibility as a species towards the other species of creature on our planet - if we continue the way we are we're probably going to end up making an awful long list of extinct species of animal that can be poured over in future decades by people who will probably have gotten fed up with their closest ancestors milling about and not really doing much to address the problem.

However, i'm all for the colonisation of space if it means that the human species can continue it's existence.

And who knows?

Perhaps we need a fresh start to try out new technologies in an environment that isn't already suffering the effects of human industry.

I think that in future years we not only have to consider the possibility of the Earth becoming uninhabitable due to the cataclysmic forces of nature unleashed, but also that we need to consider the possibility of the Earth becoming uninhabitable due to the simple problem of over-population.

In which case, the only foreseeable solution to a population issue other than mass genocide is to colonise space.

To be honest in the crudest sense, i'm not even bothered about finding a habitable planet, because the burning issue (i feel) for humans at the moment is our nessecity for more room.

We could potentially address this issue by learning how to use the ocean to provide for us in a way that would make the issue of over-population somewhat obselete, as after all a large proportionate of Earth's surface is made up of water.

So therefore it would only be natural to adapt to an undersea environment before we adapt to that of deep-space.

Hell, we don't even need to colonise planets, all we need is their metals - the actual livelihood of humanity in the future might revolve around space travel to the point of which we don't even land on uninhabitable planets, instead just using complex robotics to mine (and potentially terraform, if the planet was in a good location as a trading hub perhaps).

This would be the important difference to mention between the colonisation of space, and the colonisation of other planets.

Still, we aren't anywhere near that level of technology yet, but it would be a good idea for someone to start work on it sometime soon.

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi


My sentiments exactly.We as humans can't even grasp control of our own problems and emotions on earth. We could always use Titan as an alternative to decontaminate earth and send all the criminals and trash there.

I think it's time to give earth back to those who deserve it.The animals because we as humans have shown that thrrough the spread of knowledge and education mankind has learned little in the art of self control and less in living with one another.As a matter of fact the smarter we become the more selfish and stupid are actions become.

Or you could just send me there. I would rather sit there for a few seconds of peace then implode rather than live on this selfish planet.A few second of peace!!!!!!

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi


apologies,I accidentally double posted

[edit on 22-3-2008 by 19DCW71]

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi

Originally posted by oinkment
Maybe this is where we should go to Titan instead of mars?

Maybe we should just stop destroying the planet we're already on and stop fighting on the planet we're already on rather than taking our pollution, garbage and war to another body in the Solar System?

We're like the trailer trash neighbor in the high class neighborhood. I have doubts that we even have a right to exist on the planet we're on given the way we treat it, much less another planet or moon.

[edit on 3/21/08 by NovusOrdoMundi]

haha, well said, you get a star. It's very true.

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
Sure we need to clean up our planet, but why not establish from scratch a new outpost in space where we take only that which is desirable from our planet and leave behind what is undesirable?

The problem is, those with the power to take us there are the ones who wish to abuse what is there, and abuse any 'small people' they take with them.

If it was for peaceful purposes, maybe. If we were a curious and scientific species, perhaps.

But we're not. We're a war and profit driven violent group of psychopaths with only destruction, mining, and stripping of the land around us on our minds.

I guess I'm the "hippie" type because I am upset with, and feel ashamed with, how we treat this planet, so I feel even more against spreading our garbage to another body anywhere in the Universe.

Originally posted by Throbber
However, i'm all for the colonisation of space if it means that the human species can continue it's existence.

I beg to differ. I feel like if we are intended to be wiped out, then that's how it has to be, and anything different is just an arrogant attempt by us to change the inevitable and change our fate. It's out of our hands and should remain that way.

Given the way humans are, if we give ourselves control over our own fate...damn, if you're not in a position of power, look the hell out.

Maybe our existence isn't meant to continue. We wouldn't be here if the dinosaurs existence was meant to continue, so what if we put off another species to come after us? Or maybe even something greater than just a species?

I'm not religious, but I believe in fate (to an extent). I think we need to leave that alone.

If we are so hell bent on preserving our existence, then maybe we just need to stop destroying our surroundings that support our existence.

Maybe we should just stop destroying the planet we're already on and stop fighting on the planet we're already on rather than taking our pollution, garbage and war to another body in the Solar System?

Personally I don't give a damn about the state of this Planet - Maybe you don't like that but its my opinion that its just a cradle and we should be colonising the solar system and thinking about the next star systems too.

People shouldn't be bound to one planet, if we are the only intelligent life then its sensless to have all our eggs in one basket. Surely even you see that my freind???

If Titan has Stuff we can use lets take it! In my mind the Solar System is our resource and we should be using its material to conquer our Galaxy!
So what if we pollute it and strip it of any usefull materials - theres a countless number other star systems out there we can live in instead!

The problem is, those with the power to take us there are the ones who wish to abuse what is there, and abuse any 'small people' they take with them.

If it was for peaceful purposes, maybe. If we were a curious and scientific species, perhaps.

But we're not. We're a war and profit driven violent group of psychopaths with only destruction, mining, and stripping of the land around us on our minds.

I guess I'm the "hippie" type because I am upset with, and feel ashamed with, how we treat this planet, so I feel even more against spreading our garbage to another body anywhere in the Universe.

This is a very funny way of looking at things to me. Why are you ashamed to be Human? Yes we war and fight and strip nature away to make our comfortable homes and high technology - so What we are Hunters and we have fought our way to top of the food chain buddy - what did you expect?
I think this rule is the same across the universe if there is other life out there and if we meet themand we can't trade or communicate with them - yes we will probably fight them, kill them and assimilate them. (Unless of course they are more vicious than us!) I personally think that the great thing about being Human we are Earths winners. You are probably going to go into a long reaotic about how there are starving people, Enviromental problems etc etc. blah blah blah - so what we are at a bottleneck - thats why we have to start spreading about.

Its 2008 - this planet is shagged - lets go to Titan and go surfing - i reckon the swells will be 100Ft with 1/7 gravity wahey!

I beg to differ. I feel like if we are intended to be wiped out, then that's how it has to be, and anything different is just an arrogant attempt by us to change the inevitable and change our fate. It's out of our hands and should remain that way.

Given the way humans are, if we give ourselves control over our own fate...damn, if you're not in a position of power, look the hell out.

Maybe our existence isn't meant to continue. We wouldn't be here if the dinosaurs existence was meant to continue, so what if we put off another species to come after us? Or maybe even something greater than just a species?

I'm not religious, but I believe in fate (to an extent). I think we need to leave that alone.

If we are so hell bent on preserving our existence, then maybe we just need to stop destroying our surroundings that support our existence.

(Snip)

Seriously though i understand you opinion but i think your way off the mark.

(Snip)


Mod Note: Courtesy is Mandatory -- Please Review

[edit on 22-3-2008 by chissler]

Funny how I posted this story about Saurns Moon "Titan" at 10:31am and you posted yours at 10:33am both with different sources.

Whatever the case, there is a lot more water and potentials for life in our solar system than believe in these times; it just goes to show us that maybe much that we have grown up believing is just ignorance.

reply to post by oinkment


Step away from your Star Wars DVD collection and lets focus on science and common sense.

The majority of this planet is not only not colonized, but not even touched by humans. In the parts that are, the majority of it is destroyed, stripped, mined, polluted and abused.

Before we cry "over-population!" and assemble some grand plan to colonize the Universe, how about we simply spread out on the planet we're on? Why must we group together, 10+ million strong, in tightly packed cities when there are untouched lands?

Until we, as humans, evolve and, dare I say, mature, we won't accomplish anything of any importance.

Everything we need is right here on this planet. If we ever do grow the hell up and get past all of the differences in culture, religion and politics, then we can move past these imaginary national borders and truly colonize our planet.

But that comes with a great responsibility. Moving past those differences to meet the full potentials of not only ourselves, but our planet, comes with respecting the planet. We can't strip it, abuse it and pollute it for greed and profit. We need to use it how it was intended to be used - for us to survive.

Putting people on other bodies in the Solar System does not impress me and does not define "human accomplishment."

Completely changing how we are and how we act, and being able to live on the same planet as others without needless wars and without polluting the only home we're ever going to know would impress me and would define "human accomplishment."

It's that human competitive and imperialistic nature that got us in trouble here on Earth. Lets not relive the mistakes and venture outside of our naturally defined boundaries in to a much more hostile atmosphere where, might I add, we have absolutely no experience living in.

As much as i'd hate to deny the truth of the matter, it is vitally important that we as a species settle our differences before we even consider spreading out as a species.

I agree with much of what Novus says, i for one would not want human beings to spread out to other planets if they were just going to use it as an opportunity to wage galactic war on one another.

There is a deep issue of paranoia and social anxiety rooted firmly in the minds of a great many humans, and they aren't even in a position to make choices on a nation's interests.

The kind of Change that Novus speaks of is a grass-roots change, it isn't the kind of thing that can be affected by BGB (big government balls), because that would not only be pointless, but would probably result in teenagers alluding to NWO agendas or something equally as plausible.

Which is why i think the change must start with the individual.

Instead of Competing, Co-operate.

Instead of Succeeding, simply continue the game.



Human beings were not put on this earth purely and simply so we could kill one another and steal each other's crunchy nut cornflakes, because that would defy much of what society has brought to us (Crunchy nut cornflakes, for example).

Still, with all that said, i happen to think the perfect environment to experiment with extra-terrestrial colonisation is under the seas, as many of the problems we will face in space we also face in an underwater environment.

[edit on 23-3-2008 by Throbber]

I beg to differ. I feel like if we are intended to be wiped out, then that's how it has to be, and anything different is just an arrogant attempt by us to change the inevitable and change our fate. It's out of our hands and should remain that way.

sorry but human beings have already stepped outside the rules of natural selection. Thats what makes us special on this planet no other species exists outside those rules.

But it is our darwinian instincts of survival that will drive us to colonize the galaxy.If we dont destroy oursleves first

Originally posted by yeti101
Thats what makes us special on this planet no other species exists outside those rules.

That's not what makes us "special". That's what has led to the destruction of the planet, animal species and ourselves.

When you break those rules there are consequences.

Animals don't destroy the planet. They don't destroy themselves. They don't destroy others.

We do that.

So you have to ask yourself what the difference is. Why do we do it and they don't?

Maybe it just goes back to what you said: "no other species exists outside those rules."

So maybe it's not as great and special as you think it is.

well unless you have a solar powered computer your as guilty as evryone else in the developed world. We have only recently discovered the changes we are making to the earths biosphere. Many poeple & gvts are trying to find solutions.

we cant sustain our civilization with clean energy alone at this point. stop whining you give no realistic alternative solutions.

Originally posted by yeti101
well unless you have a solar powered computer your as guilty as evryone else in the developed world.

Did I say I wasn't guilty?

No. I know I'm guilty, but I'm not contemplating moving to another body in the Solar System.

Think about just how stupid that sounds. "Well we screwed this planet up so lets move somewhere else just because we think we can."

Originally posted by yeti101
stop whining you give no realistic alternative solutions.

Great rebuttal.