Asked about Two-Thirds of Americans Opposition to War, Cheney says 'So?'

Originally posted by heliosprime

Originally posted by scrapple

A high-ranking military officer reveals how Defense Department extremists suppressed information and twisted the truth to drive the country to war.

Heck, pick a war, such a statement can be made on any war..........

I couldn’t agree more with you.

Below is an excerpt from the article - (ex) LT. Colonel Kwiatkowski has been fairly consistent in her comments since the start of the Iraq (II) war.

From May 2002 until February 2003, I observed firsthand the formation of the Pentagon's Office of Special Plans and watched the latter stages of the neoconservative capture of the policy-intelligence nexus in the run-up to the invasion of Iraq. This seizure of the reins of U.S. Middle East policy was directly visible to many of us working in the Near East South Asia policy office, and yet there seemed to be little any of us could do about it.

I saw a narrow and deeply flawed policy favored by some executive appointees in the Pentagon used to manipulate and pressurize the traditional relationship between policymakers in the Pentagon and U.S. intelligence agencies.

-best
scrap

reply to post by TheColdDragon

Originally posted by TheColdDragon

Having responded thus far to your comments, I feel the power of Christ Compelling me (Though he needs more Cowbell) that your argument, like JSObecky's, is a scattershot effort to obfuscate the ACTUAL TOPIC at hand; The Dick's uncaring callousness and personal gluttony for power and wealth.

"The Dick"? Why do you pretend to be a Christian and then use such puerile language?

Does it make you feel powerful when you call our VP by his first name?

Originally posted by TheColdDragon
I don't care if you disagree with me or not, make a compelling argument. Don't divert the argument into meaningless distractions meant to subvert it into an entirely different topic.

Why? You haven't been able to follow the simplest arguments yet.

Originally posted by TheColdDragon

Unless you mean to tell me that Dick Cheney has not demonstrated on countless occasions that he is a callous, selfish individual who's only interests extend to his pocketbook and what power he has.

"Prove he is not guilty", you say. See, this is where your logic fails you. You can't ask someone to prove a negative.

You're the one making allegations; it's your responsibility to prove it is the way it is.

Innocent until proven guilty. See how that works?

The Inquisition ended long ago.

Originally posted by TheColdDragon
No... evidence? Profiteering, Deception and Power games? Seriously, are we talking about the SAME Dick Cheney or have you not been paying attention for the past Eight Years?

Yes, that's what I said. No evidence. Your emotions don't count as evidence, btw.

Rattling off a litany of rhetoric and left-wing talking points doesn't count as evidence either.

He's innocent until proven guilty.

So, TheColdDragon, it seems you have no case. Unless you can list Cheney's specific sins and produce solid evidence.

Otherwise, once the layers of your hate and bias are peeled away, you have no argumentat all.

Originally posted by jsobecky
He's innocent until proven guilty.

There's at least 953 - and counting - items entered into public evidence advancing his guilt and complicity.

Cheney has been charged with high crimes and treason in the court of public opinion, it's now up to his defense to prove his innocence.

You may begin...

This whole thread has become most disgusting.

It makes me shake my head when I think that an elected official can come on national television and tell you, the American public, to your face and under no uncertain terms that he COULD CARE LESS what you think.

And still people come out of the wood works to defend this gargoyle. Can't you people see? Bush and Cheney are evil manipulators and it is their greed and greed alone that drives them. They do not care about you or your families!!!

Dick Cheney would send your twelve year old to fight in Iraq if he could. He would see us all shackled and imprisoned if it were to better serve his agenda. He has no issues with stripping your rights away, he has no trouble with the fact that this war will put us all in the poor house, he has no issue with repeatedly violating human rights laws, the Geneva Convention, the rules of the Constitution and he definately has no problem telling lies to the American people.

He just flat out told you under no uncertain terms that he could give a damn what you as an American tax payer might think about his illegal and un-constitutional activities. So?

It never fails to amaze me that for every two bit tyrant who emerges through out history, there will always be boot lickers who will stand by them no matter what. People who will close their eyes and ears and blindly attack those who dare question their leaders greatness. It reminds me of battered woman syndrome, where the victim denies the bruises and where they came from, denies the destruction that has taken place, denies the cruelty of their abuser and in most instances will defend the abuser until their last breath.

To still be able to sit with a straight face in March of 2008, after all of the truth that has emerged, after all of the awful things that have been revealed, to be able to still defend the actions of a heathen like Dick Cheney is deplorable and in many cases downright teasonous. The words DEMOCRAT AND REPUBLICAN MEAN JACK ****.

You are ALL being exploited, and it doesn't matter if you have a picture of an elephant or a donkey on your shirt. Divide and conquer is their goal. If you are an American then it is your duty to stand up and do something about this.

If Cheney were alive in the days of Jefferson and Washington, he would have been cast as an enemy of the people and hanged on a public street corner.


"Sic Semper Tyrannis"

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
I worked in a media-based company, and have since the start of the war. In my day-to-day duties, I watch hours upon hours of news broadcasts. I can tell you from experience it was vastly negative. However, I know this is ancedotal evidence at best, so I don't expect you to take my word for it.

I respect your candor and honesty, and I can certainly concede that my perception may have been under informed, as I don't watch a lot of television news.

On the contrary, I was responding to the idea that a politician who does not follow the whim of public opinion should be impeached. That is all, I was not saying I agreed or disagreed with what Cheney did, or the Iraq War.

Aaah. I by no means suggest we should Impeach Cheney for ignoring public opinion. There's a lot of reasons far better than that. I've merely been commenting that his response displays his loyalties, and they don't belong to the American People.

That is because I am not arguing whether the Iraq War was justified or not, or whether it was benefiting the United States.

Alright. A star for your frank and straightforward response.

Essentially, I am saying that his responses attribute more evidence to the numerous accounts of his nature, which is selfish and greed driven. By no means should you impeach or impugn someone for not following public opinion... but a Representative should CONSIDER public opinion as a factor of decision making, even if the public is easily swayed.

It shouldn't be what they base their decision off of though.

What does calling Cheney by his first name have anything to do with someone being a Christian? I call him by his first name, not often but I do. Richard or 'Dick" for short which is extremely common and if used in the proper context, NOT peurile. Now, I would never put "the" in front of Dick because that implies something totally different and if you do that, THEN I would probably step back and reconsider your spirituality.

Back to the subject.

It's obvious, the current 'power structure' is out of touch with the mainstream will more than It has been in a LONG time and if people can't see that then what else can I say? Fortunately and unfortunately, it's voting time so people can get out and vote the change. The unfortunate part of it being voting time is there is not going to be a candidate I'm going to want to vote for. Sad really.

reply to post by jsobecky


Let's make this very simple, and short. Do you acknowledge that Richard Cheney has directly profited from the war and the manufacturing of war upon the backs of thousands of dead Iraqi's and Americans, and has displayed a callous disregard for fidelity, truth, and obligation to the American people as a Public Servant?

Or are you putting forward that Richard Cheney is guiltless, his hands clean and his record unfettered by greed driven motivations and profiteering from American Blood?

reply to post by goosdawg

Originally posted by goosdawg

Originally posted by jsobecky
He's innocent until proven guilty.

There's at least 953 - and counting - items entered into public evidence advancing his guilt and complicity.

Cheney has been charged with high crimes and treason in the court of public opinion, it's now up to his defense to prove his innocence.

You may begin...

Oh! The court of public opinion! Well hell, man, why didn't you say so?

That changes everything!

reply to post by TheColdDragon

Originally posted by TheColdDragon
reply to post by jsobecky

 

Let's make this very simple, and short. Do you acknowledge that Richard Cheney has directly profited from the war and the manufacturing of war upon the backs of thousands of dead Iraqi's and Americans, and has displayed a callous disregard for fidelity, truth, and obligation to the American people as a Public Servant?

Or are you putting forward that Richard Cheney is guiltless, his hands clean and his record unfettered by greed driven motivations and profiteering from American Blood?

I put forth that he is innocent until proven guilty. And further, that you are conducting a witchhunt.

reply to post by BlackOps719



What's wrong with this picture?

Originally posted by BlackOps719
And still people come out of the wood works to defend this gargoyle. Can't you people see? Bush and Cheney are evil manipulators and it is their greed and greed alone that drives them. They do not care about you or your families!!!

< snip>

You are ALL being exploited, and it doesn't matter if you have a picture of an elephant or a donkey on your shirt. Divide and conquer is their goal. If you are an American then it is your duty to stand up and do something about this.

Don't you see, people? You're being exploited.

You are being told that if you don't hate Cheney and Bush as much as this person does, you are being divisive.

The real truth is, BlackOps719 and others who are gathering with torches and pitchforks are the real dividers.

Every one of us is entitled to our own opinion, and we should be allowed to express it without having to choose "them or us".

Originally posted by BlackOps719
To still be able to sit with a straight face in March of 2008, after all of the truth that has emerged, after all of the awful things that have been revealed, to be able to still defend the actions of a heathen like Dick Cheney is deplorable and in many cases downright teasonous. The words DEMOCRAT AND REPUBLICAN MEAN JACK ****.

Defend Cheney's actions? What about defending Cheney's rights?

In the hate that is being spilled here, it is easy to ignore the fact that all Americans have rights, and your duty and responsibility is to uphold and defend those rights, regardless if you like the person or not, no to exhibit violent reaction when you are reminded of the fact that we all have rights, much like a child throwing a tantrum.

I've seen the same hate and ignorance being spilled in threads about Rove, Gonzales, Bush, and others.

Ignorant mob rule that wants to condemn someone and hang them in a kangaroo court.

The Founding Fathers would have looked upon you as a traitor, BlackOps.

Originally posted by jsobecky
The Founding Fathers would have looked upon you as a traitor, BlackOps.

Hah!

BlackOps would have been hailed as a true patriot and defender of the Constitution.

And the Founding Fathers, after having found Cheney and his cohorts guilty of high crimes and treason - pursuant to a fair and just trial - would have promptly had them publicly hung by their necks until dead.





Edit to correct muddled grammar

[edit on 22-3-2008 by goosdawg]

reply to post by jsobecky



I respect your opinion Jsobecky and you are entitled to believe and feel any way that works for you

Im not in the business of convincing anyone of anything, and at times Im sure I could keep my opinion to myself.

But you have to understand that I love my country more than you can know, and I am just so incredibly frustrated and angered by what is being made of it. This once great nation is still great, only it is being dragged into a downward spiral by the poor leadership of a group of men who only serve to line their own pockets.

All while jeopardizing all of our futures, our childrens futures. They are digging a ditch that we can never possibly climb out of financially. These people have ransacked our national treasury, they have basically ignored the constitution and the dissident voices of the American people. And the worst part is that some just seem all too willing to sit still and allow it to happen

I fear for this country and I am genuinely afraid of what is to come. Look around you, take a good hard look at what is happening in this land that your forefathers built. It is a disgrace.

But in reality, I don't know any more than you do about how to change any of it. Average Americans are nothing more than brainwashed tax mules, a wage slave for the dark empire. We work for scraps so that we can finance the whims of our power crazed, imperialist leaders. We have no say in anything. Sure we can vote but who are we kidding here? In this game, there is no winning hand, there is no magic ticket. We are all screwed. Unless.

Unless people start to think for themselves.


And it may sound corny and it may seem cliche, but the truth is that He who stands for nothing, will fall for anything.

Best of luck

reply to post by BlackOps719

I couln't agree more. This country and the events are nothing more than a business venture gone wrong or is it actually strategically planned?.The management has turned this country into nothing more than a cesspool.

I feel as helpless as you do. The fact is they keep "We The People" from uprising by one simple fact. We aren't all American and all of us don't fight for the American heritage we believe in and on how this country was built.They keep us divided by race and religion wars. A well thought out plan from the beginning.

They keep flooding this country with groups of people crying for special rights for their own kind and our government appeases them. I live in Queens which I now call little India.We are flooded with so many races and religions which makes for too many indifferences and none of us agree.

Illegal immigrants, Muslims,Blacks,Indians and everyone else thinking they deserve special privelages while us Americans lose our Constitutional rights and way of life.Its aModern day crusade and Civil war all in one.I'm disgraced to call myself an American. This land is beautiful but the management sucks.

They keep us weak by Division. A house divived cannot stand.

TextDeclaration of Independence: That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness

Originally posted by 19DCW71
reply to post by BlackOps719

 

I feel as helpless as you do. The fact is they keep "We The People" from uprising by one simple fact. We aren't all American and all of us don't fight for the American heritage we believe in and on how this country was built.They keep us divided by race and religion wars. A well thought out plan from the beginning.

You know, hating Dick Cheney and citing examples of his contempt toward his country isn't going to fix what has already been done. Chances are, that current trends will make it very likely that this dinosaur of a man will be taken down with charges of indictment.

There is a lot more to the puppetry of the George W Bush administration than anybody really knows. Take John McCain for instance. Has anybody ever wondered how his campaign acquired so many delegates in such a short time span, when late last year he was nearly written off for gone? George Bush has something to do with that.

Over the past seven years, George Bush has left the economy alone and let it take on a life of its own, with absolutely no corrective action to speak of, save for this economic stimulus package. My theory is that the Iraq war is a decoy, taking attention away from homeland issues by which George Bush is totally impotent. Dick Cheney and George Bush early on hedged bets on the success of this war, much like Ronald Reagan spurred an economic boom out of the Iran contra scandal, with Oliver North taking the fall. The Iraq war is a flop, China and India are beneficiaries of outsourcing, and everyone's getting an ulcer after hearing Dick Cheney say "So?" with regards to the wants and needs of the American people.

Now, everybody's intoxicated by the pixie-dust that's got everyone voting Barack Obama. An incumbant, and far less than perfect senator. It may seem cynical, but Dick Cheney is partially right, most American's don't vote for what's good for them, they vote for what is fashionable. There's no point in getting distracted by race or gender, but a good public speaker with a dynamic image doesn't necessarily make a strong leader.

American's are suffering in a bad way, and many people are poised to denounce Hillary Clinton as president. Guess what? You need to take your medicine and let it run its course!

reply to post by Kinesis



I may get flamed for saying so, but I believe we had our chance and wasted it.

For the first time that I can remember we had a presidential candidate step up that had real wisdom and grand ideas, that truly had our best interests in mind. A man who knew and understood what our founding fathers had in mind when they wrote the constitution.

Someone who I honestly believe could have saved this sinking ship and had actual potential to restore this country back to it's place as the great sovereign nation that it once was.

His name was Ron Paul, and nobody bothered to listen.

Enjoy your second coming of Clinton, or you third coming of Bush. Either way, we the people lose once again.

Edit-spelling

[edit on 3/23/08 by BlackOps719]

Originally posted by BlackOps719
reply to post by Kinesis

 

His name was Ron Paul, and nobody bothered to listen.

Enjoy your second coming of Clinton, or you third coming of Bush. Either way, we the people lose once again.

It's usually the little guy who has the fewest hidden agendas, with the least to hide. Realistically though, America doesn't need McCain or Obama. I think it would be fair to say that the negative aspects of Bill Clinton's term won't be repeated by Hillary. The only problem with Hillary is that the white male will be left playing second fiddle to the whims and desires that everyone else in the demographic considers their rights.

Equality isn't about fairness, but rather a pecking order of whose support is taken seriously and who is taken for granted, regardless of the importance or significance of the issue at stake.

We no longer have a Republic; we are no longer THESE United States of America; we are no longer a democratic society. The very moment Florida was allowed to steal the last presidential election, we ALL should have marched on Washington DC and demanded CHANGE. We didn't. We behaved like SHEEPLE. I hate to say it, because it pains me to know that we reaped what we sowed...

Now we have a chance to give America a new face--a face that's not the stereotypical white elitist republican or democrat. We have a chance for fresh thoughts and blended blood--someone who can go a l-o-n-g way towards changing the way America does business, and the ways other countries look at us. Obama may not appeal to everyone, but he's our best hope to change the way we see ourselves, and the ways eveyone else around the globe looks upon us.

I wish he weren't religious--I'd far rather have an atheist as Commander in Chief--but he has an honest, untainted heart, and even though the Senate and the Congress will try to corrupt him, I think he will do far more to remain loyal to his campaign promises than either of the other two.

Call me a cock-eyed optimist, but I still have to believe that being inspired by someone who doesn't necessarily look like me is good for my soul, and may be the best choice for our country.

Originally posted by Tweaked

I wish he weren't religious--I'd far rather have an atheist as Commander in Chief--but he has an honest, untainted heart, and even though the Senate and the Congress will try to corrupt him, I think he will do far more to remain loyal to his campaign promises than either of the other two.

Honest, untainted?? It's just a matter of time until the whole truth surfaces about Obama. You'll learn.

reply to post by Kinesis


It's a bummer our first choice was kept from us; it's amazing what the PTB can do when they control the lame stream media, no?

At least, when compared to our other "choices," BHO appears to have a heart.

After eight years of heartless, greedy, uncaring leadership, do we really need MOTS?

A small change for the better, is better than no change at all...

Do any sane people actually like Dick Cheney, i mean the man may very well be the #in antichrist, he promotes big buisiness and war and obvioussly has little to no regard for the American people or anyone besides him self for that matter. But thats ok cuz ima have a good time when he finally has a good enough heart attack and finally falls dead... it should be a national holiday