2012 For The Faint Of Heart...

Hi everybody!

First off, I'd like to introduce myself. My name is Robert and my "handle" is
dontwannadie. Now, I'd like to extend that user name to: don't want to die in anything referred to as an "event" or "disaster."
I'm not afraid of death, but would prefer to go quietly and peacefully. Like many human beings walking the planet, I have fears and phobias. That said, I realize that the people who are logging in to this site are attracted to outlandish theories and off shoot ideas. As thrilling as all of this may be at times, there is a risk involved... anxiety. Like children who love a good horror flick, we get a similar effect by scaring ourselves with doomsday scenarios. It's great fun.
I'm with you! I love the thrill of heated debates or coffee fueled rhetoric between fellow conspiracy buffs. We are attracted to the bold statements...
the facts are, usually, significantly less alluring.
There are answers, my friends. There are reasonable explanations for just about everything on this crazy planet. What I'd like to offer this site is a bit of an easy way out for those who are seeking to settle their anxiety.

For those of you who are dreading 2012... even in the deep, seemingly sleepy subconscious... here's a few reassuring statements from sources that know exactly what they're talking about:

On the POLAR SHIFT from NASA... you know how giant tidal waves could cover the earth? The world stops turning? Our DNA is altered? Earthquakes scatter us all into a terrorized frenzy? NO WAY! Not even close...

Recently researchers announced that a storm is coming--the most intense solar maximum in fifty years. (fifty years!!!!)
The prediction comes from a team led by Mausumi Dikpati of the National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR).
"The next sunspot cycle will be 30% to 50% stronger than the previous one," she says. If correct, the years ahead could produce a burst of solar activity second only to the historic Solar Max of 1958.
"Old magnetic fields swept up then should re-appear as big sunspots in 2010-2011." Dikpati's forecast puts Solar Max at 2012.

What does this mean??? Nothing. What did it mean in 1958?
Northern Lights were sighted three times in Mexico.
This is the worst case scenario. No worries.

But that's the polar shift of the sun, not the earth. What happens then?

Dr. David P. Stern, author of The Great magnet, The Earth, who's Main interests are mapping and physics of the global magnetosphere, also science education and history of science (headed AGU Committee on the History of Geophysics 1981-88, Eos history editor 1999-2001) says...

"Some people worry that during magnetic reversals the Earth would receive a higher dosage of high-energy ions and electrons ("radiation" in common terms), which might affect us and any living creatures on Earth. This is not so. Even today, the magnetic shield is not effective near the magnetic poles, yet the radiation received there on the ground is only slightly higher than anywhere else.

No one knows when the next field reversal will occur: in the past, they have occurred on the average about once in 500,000 years. The change, whenever it occurs, will be gradual and the field will not drop to zero in between--doing so would mean that the magnetic energy of the Earth was somehow converted or dissipated, and all processes we know for this tend to run on scales of thousands of year, if not more.

Right now the main (dipole) field is getting weaker at a rate of about 7% per century, and if you draw a straight line through the points you find it reversing between 1000 and 2000 years from now. It might happen, though the trend may also change before then. But as explained elsewhere, even if a reversal occurs, the field does not disappear during the time of polarity change, it just gets more complex and weaker.

The polar field of the Sun seems to reverse every 11 years or so, taking about a year or more. "

So, that's that. Next... some basic info on the Mayans.

More on the Pole Shift from Dr. David P. Stern...

The magnetic field of the Earth changes all the time, and yes, magnetic charts have to be redrawn from time to time (this was first found in 1641, by an Englishman named Gellibrand). And yes, in the century and a half since the first careful mapping of the Earth's field, the dipole has become weaker by about 8% (the rate may have speeded up in 1970). If you draw a straight line through the points, you will find that perhaps 1200 years from now, the line goes through zero.

Extending straight lines too far beyond the present, however, is risky business, as noted by no less a scientific authority than Mark Twain. In "Life on the Mississippi" Twain noted that the Mississippi river was getting progressively shorter (mainly by floods--and by people--creating shortcuts through bends in the river) and he wrote:

"Now, if I wanted to be one of those scientific people, and "let on" to prove what had occured in the remote past by what had occured in a given time in the recent past, or what will occur in the far future by what has occured in late years, what an opportunity is here! ... Please observe:

In the space of one hundred and seventy six years the lower Mississippi has shortened itself two hundred and forty-two miles. That is an average over a mile and a third per year. Therefore, any calm person, who is not blind or idiotic, can see that in the lower Oolitic Silurian Period, just a million years ago next November, the lower Mississippi was upward of one million three hundred thousand miles long, and stuck out over the Gulf of Mexico like a fishing rod. And by the same token any person can see that seven hundred and forty years from now the lower Mississippi will be only a mile and three quarters long, and Cairo and New Orleans will have joined their streets together, and will be plodding comfortably along under a single mayor... There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment in fact."

It is not impossible that the magnetic field will go through zero 1200 years from now, but (judging by the past record of reversals) not likely. In any case, the field is not going away: a "flux preservation theorem" suggests this is not happening (at least not on the relatively fast time scale of observed variations of the field; see here). In agreement with that theorem, one finds that while the dipole field is getting weaker, the complicated parts are getting stronger. That's why I wrote "yes and no." During a reversal the two-pole (dipole) component of the field (which now dominates it) may go through zero, but the complex parts of the field will be relatively high, and because of them, while the overall field will be weaker, it won't vanish.

I don't know about migrating animals (they may have magnetic organs, sort of built-in compasses), but there seem to exist no magnetic effects on DNA, resistance to antibiotics and so on; those changes seem more related to chemistry.

Finally, be cautious with compass readings in your house. Houses do contain electric currents and machinery, and these may affect the readings of a magnetic compass. On NASA's satellites the magnetic sensor usually sits at the end of a long boom, to keep it away from interfering electric currents in the satellite's circuits.

Keep up your interest in science!
David

A brief introduction to the Mayas...

The Maya are probably the best-known of the classical civilizations of Mesoamerica. Originating in the Yucatán around 2600 B.C., they rose to prominence around A.D. 250 in present-day southern Mexico, Guatemala, northern Belize and western Honduras. Building on the inherited inventions and ideas of earlier civilizations such as the Olmec, the Maya developed astronomy, calendrical systems and hieroglyphic writing. The Maya were noted as well for elaborate and highly decorated ceremonial architecture, including temple-pyramids, palaces and observatories, all built without metal tools. They were also skilled farmers, clearing large sections of tropical rain forest and, where groundwater was scarce, building sizeable underground reservoirs for the storage of rainwater. The Maya were equally skilled as weavers and potters, and cleared routes through jungles and swamps to foster extensive trade networks with distant peoples.

Around 300 B.C., the Maya adopted a hierarchical system of government with rule by nobles and kings. This civilization developed into highly structured kingdoms during the Classic period, A.D. 200-900. Their society consisted of many independent states, each with a rural farming community and large urban sites built around ceremonial centres. It started to decline around A.D. 900 when - for reasons which are still largely a mystery - the southern Maya abandoned their cities. When the northern Maya were integrated into the Toltec society by A.D. 1200, the Maya dynasty finally came to a close, although some peripheral centres continued to thrive until the Spanish Conquest in the early sixteenth century.

Maya history can be characterized as cycles of rise and fall: city-states rose in prominence and fell into decline, only to be replaced by others. It could also be described as one of continuity and change, guided by a religion that remains the foundation of their culture. For those who follow the ancient Maya traditions, the belief in the influence of the cosmos on human lives and the necessity of paying homage to the gods through rituals continues to find expression in a modern hybrid Christian-Maya faith.

Today descendents of the old Maya, or the Indigenous as the are locally referred to, account for more than 50% of the Guatemalan population. Their present culture is vibrant and thriving, best shown by the many traditionally dressed woman and children seen along the streets in the entire country. Weaving is one of the outstanding Maya craft, an ancient art that has survived uninterrupted for centuries and is now becoming famous all over the world. The Maya also make baskets, pottery and wood carved of animals, saints and brightly-painted toys and chests.

The doomsday calendar...

The Classic Maya civilization of southern Mexico, Guatemala and Belize flourished in the fourth through tenth century AD. They were accomplished astronomers and crafted a fascinating calendar system. They used a vigesimal (base-20) number system including the concept of zero long before Europeans expunged the Roman numerology. The Maya system uses only three symbols for zero (a shell-shaped glyph), one (a dot) and five (a bar) to represent units from zero through 19. For instance, the number 13 was represented as three dots and two bars. A positional notation was used in which each viget position represents the days in increasing powers of 20, except for the second position (months), where the radix is 18 instead of 20. This system was used to represent both absolute dates of prominent events, such as conquests, ascendancies and so forth, and relative dates.

The Maya actually used two calendars, a sacred year of 260 days and a vague year of 365 days. Along with other Mesoamerican peoples, the Maya use the sacred year for religious purposes and to name children, for example. The vague year is used for such things as planting crops. The least common multiple of the two calendars, called the calendar round, has 18,980 days or 73 sacred years or 52 vague years. A Maya month or uinal consists of 20 solar days or kins. The 260-day sacred year or tzolkin consists of 13 months of 20 days, while the 365-day vague year or haab, consists of 18 months of 20 days followed by an intercalary "month" of five days called the haab.

Longer cycles can be incorporated in the Maya calendar. A katun consists of 20 tun (about 19.7 years), a baktun of 20 katuns (about 394 years), a pictun of 20 baktuns (about 7.9 centuries), a calabtun of 20 pictuns (about 158 centuries), and a kinchiltun of 20 calabtuns (about 3.1 million years). There is evidence to suggest the Maya were aware that the vague year differed slightly from the actual solar year, but no evidence they actually did something about it.

The Maya year has a basic unit called Kin, a word that means day, Sun, etc. The Tzolkin calendar has a cycle of 20 day names conbined with a cycle of 13 day numbers. Each of these 20 names has a glyph to represent it.

The Maya year is divided in 19 months, they are designated Uinal, each has a name and a corresponding glyph. Of these months, the first eighteen have twenty days and the last one, called Uayeb, has only five. The days within a month are numbered from 0 to 19 with the exception of Uayeb which is numbered from 0 to 4.

To write their dates the Maya used both the glyph corresponding to the different time periods and a number for each of them. The Maya developed a unique mathematical system that uses dots for units and bars for five units. The numbers can be written vertically or horizontally. They discovered and used the zero as well as a vigesimal positioning system, similar to the decimal positioning system used today.

The Maya set a fixed date to initiate their calendric calculations. This date is 4 Ahau 8 Kumku which in the Gregorian calendar used today corresponds to August 13, 3114 BC As we do today, to write any specific date they would consider the time elapsed since the beginning of their calendar. In order to do this the days were grouped into units like today's years and centuries. Each of these units had a specific symbol (glyph).

This is boring... when are we gonna die???!!!

Is there something significant we should know about the Winter Solstice date of December 21, 2012? Yes. On this day a rare astronomical and Mayan mythical event occurs. In astronomic terms, the Sun conjuncts the intersection of the Milky Way and the plane of the ecliptic. The Milky Way, as most of us know, extends in a general north-south direction in the night sky. The plane of the ecliptic is the track the Sun, Moon, planets and stars appear to travel in the sky, from east to west. It intersects the Milky Way at a 60 degree angle near the constellation Sagittarius.

The cosmic cross formed by the intersecting Milky Way and plane of the ecliptic was called the Sacred Tree by the Maya. The trunk of the tree, the Axis Mundi, is the Milky Way, and the main branch intersecting the tree is the plane of the ecliptic. Mythically, at sunrise on December 21, 2012, the Sun - our Father - rises to conjoin the center of the Sacred Tree, the World Tree, the Tree of Life..

Due to a phenomenon called the precession of the equinoxes, caused by the Earth's wobble that lasts almost 26,000 years, the apparent location of the Winter Solstice sunrise has been ever so slowly moving toward the Galactic Center. Precession may be understood by watching a spinning top. Over many revolutions the top will rise and dip on its axis, not unlike how the Earth does over an extremely long period of time. One complete rise and dip constitutes the cycle of precession.

The Mayans may have noticed the relative slippage of the positions of stars in the night sky over long periods of observation, indicative of precession, and foretold this great coming attraction. By using an invention called the Long Count, the Mayans fast-forwarded to anchor December 21, 2012 as the end of their Great Cycle and then counted backwards to decide where the calendar would begin. Thus the Great Cycle we are currently in began on August 11, 3114 B.C.

The Great Cycle, lasting 1,872,000 days and equivalent to 5,125.36 years, is but one fifth of the Great Great Cycle, known scientifically as the Great Year or the Platonic Year - the length of the precession of the equinoxes. To use a metaphor from the modern industrial world, on Winter Solstice A.D. 2012 it is as if the Giant Odometer of Humanity on Earth hits 100,000 miles and all the cycles big and small turn over to begin anew. The present world age will end and a new world age will begin.

Not to mention...

"For the ancient Maya, it was a huge celebration to make it to the end of a whole cycle," says Sandra Noble, executive director of the Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies in Crystal River, Fla. To render Dec. 21, 2012, as a doomsday or moment of cosmic shifting, she says, is "a complete fabrication and a chance for a lot of people to cash in."

Part of the 2012 mystique stems from the stars. On the winter solstice in 2012, the sun will be aligned with the center of the Milky Way for the first time in about 26,000 years. This means that "whatever energy typically streams to Earth from the center of the Milky Way will indeed be disrupted on 12/21/12 at 11:11 p.m. Universal Time," Joseph writes.

But scholars doubt the ancient Maya extrapolated great meaning from anticipating the alignment — if they were even aware of what the configuration would be.

Astronomers generally agree that "it would be impossible the Maya themselves would have known that," says Susan Milbrath, a Maya archaeoastronomer and a curator at the Florida Museum of Natural History. What's more, she says, "we have no record or knowledge that they would think the world would come to an end at that point."

University of Florida anthropologist Susan Gillespie says the 2012 phenomenon comes "from media and from other people making use of the Maya past to fulfill agendas that are really their own."

Oh, snap! Sucks to be a doomsday prophet.
Oh yeah... what about those guys? Next on my list...

Starred your first post in this thread and flagged the thread. The first post was fantastic. It lines up with what I have researched regarding a polar shift. Now to read the others.

"Cool down, the pole shift will not cause a reversion of the Earth's rotation. It also will not happen at 2012. The last one happened about 800,000 years ago, and the next one is not expected within the next 1500 years. - - The direction of the Erath rotation will not be affected. It did not change since the Earth exists, even the impact with a planet about the size of Mars, that was the origin of our Moon, could influence the direction of the Earth rotation. All higher life forms have a biological 25 hour cycle, that normally is triggered by the daylight, however starts when the individual is seperated from this input. This shows that in the early ages of Earth, the rotation took 25 hours to complete, so actually the Earth rotation is accelerating as in opposite to the opinion expressed above"

survive2012.com...

reply to post by chromatico


That, on the other hand, was a horribly ignorant web page that was linked in that post. It shows no understanding of the science of past magnetic fields. The cycles were not regular. In my mind that link was spam intended to goad me into buying a book through instilling fear for my life from one persons madeup nightmare.

I agree... survive 2012 is not worth a moments thought. Some of the comments are pretty funny though. The outraged ones were lol hilarious.
America is, as the late H.S. Thompson put it, a "Kingdom of Fear."
There really is no need to add any more paranoia. After all, isn't that a better job for Fox news anyway? I mean, those people are professional panic button pushers.

Thank you both for your comments!

Best,
R

Look the way i see it....lets not worry about 2012 and worry about the second you're living. You got 5 years from that date to have fun, live and etc. Whatever comes come....fate will have control on who lives and who doesn't...

life is great

Originally posted by adkchamp
Look the way i see it....lets not worry about 2012 and worry about the second you're living. You got 5 years from that date to have fun, live and etc. Whatever comes come....fate will have control on who lives and who doesn't...

life is great

I agree 100%, live in the present don't act on the future. It is pointless and waste of energy. There is no end to life, just enjoy what is given to you.

This was probably one of the best posts I've read on ats. Informative, well thought out and backed up by fact. A star and a flag for you sir

I'm kind of new to all this 2012 stuff. One thing did occur to me though regarding current events. As I see it 2012 will also have another milestone that may or may not have been discussed in other threads. If it has I appologize if I am being redundant but 2012 will have already arrived if I sit down and try to read through all the threads on this topic.

Anyway, here it is.....2012 will also mark the end of the first term of whom ever gets elected president here in the US. Now for those of you who believe this to be an New World Order event as opposed to a global or celestial event, this election may carry additional significance.

The road has to be plowed, so to speak. So my question to the true believers of the NWO/2012 connection, whom do you believe is going to set things into motion? It's not going to happen over night the precusor might just very well be the here and now! November 2008! Granted, you will probably say that things have already been put into motion a long time ago. Fine, but for the grand final event wouldn't you think that the powers behind the scenes could find a better selection than the three who stand before us? I see nothing remotely intriguing about the McCain/Obama/Clinton cadre. Nothing at all!

So, will the next President of the US be the great father/mother of a new world? Or a patsy who finally hands over the keys to the vault and ultimately becomes the court jester?

Originally posted by GeneralLee
I'm kind of new to all this 2012 stuff. One thing did occur to me though regarding current events. As I see it 2012 will also have another milestone that may or may not have been discussed in other threads. If it has I appologize if I am being redundant but 2012 will have already arrived if I sit down and try to read through all the threads on this topic.

Anyway, here it is.....2012 will also mark the end of the first term of whom ever gets elected president here in the US. Now for those of you who believe this to be an New World Order event as opposed to a global or celestial event, this election may carry additional significance.

The road has to be plowed, so to speak. So my question to the true believers of the NWO/2012 connection, whom do you believe is going to set things into motion? It's not going to happen over night the precusor might just very well be the here and now! November 2008! Granted, you will probably say that things have already been put into motion a long time ago. Fine, but for the grand final event wouldn't you think that the powers behind the scenes could find a better selection than the three who stand before us? I see nothing remotely intriguing about the McCain/Obama/Clinton cadre. Nothing at all!

So, will the next President of the US be the great father/mother of a new world? Or a patsy who finally hands over the keys to the vault and ultimately becomes the court jester?

Finally a voice of reason in an unreasonable world. Science has not been a friend lately in light of 9/11 theories and scientific explanation. In fact I will go so far as to say many high level scientists have added to the near complete deception and corruption plaguing the world today.

Simply speaking well versed in science with added history of pole-shifts and Mayan history does not make someone suddenly credible- or to go without question thereby giving a complete and total belief in science as truth. The rampant disinformation and dishonesty is coming from both camps and all sides and there is nothing which will get my full attention and belief simply because it is well written.

Some of the most credible scientists have backed up ridiculous theories which have little or no basis in reality and are the explanation for an event as having occurred for the first in history.

Sorry but no one gets my vote that fast- eloquent or not.

Now because major scientists have not come out with facts- either because they are scared or not- it makes them suspect like everyone else.

Science has not solved the worlds problems and created better government. It has given the evil powers that be greater efficiency in killing people, polluting the planet and a host of nefarious things which scientists could control if they so chose.

Don't be so quick to trust a silver tongue.

I am not so quick as to believe 2012 will be the end of the world either- especially just because the Mayan calender stops on that date. There could be numerous explanations as to why this is.

What I do know is the level of deception is the greatest it has ever been and my instincts have served me better than scientific solution for quite some time now.

I am not saying the creator of this thread is not smart and well meaning. But I am not willing to blindly trust him either.

dk3000 right on! It brings to mind another perplexing thought.

Logic would make one think that when the Mayans created the calendar it was with the thought in mind that the Mayan civilization would still be around when the so-called great event occured?

This is a conundrum to me. Are we to surmise that such a great civilization who could apparently predict such "earth changing" events could not in turn save themselves from total extinction?

It makes for great reading and I suppose it gives a few something to look forward to and speculate on in the years leading up to 2012. All I see is a great big "catch basin" for every conspiracy theory there is. UFO's/Alien disclosure, Planet X, Global warming, Armaggedon, Pole shifting, NWO taking over....or whatever!

Sigh, I suppose if you throw enough against the wall.....well you know the rest!

reply to post by dk3000


Hello! First off, thank you for the acknowledgment.

In all fairness, I'm not really seeking anyone's trust. Please don't take that statement the wrong way. This thread is simply for people who have a difficult time sorting through so much of the doomsday rhetoric (including NWO) in order to find any ray of hope, or even a loose understanding of the factors that come into play. I'm most certainly not attempting to pass off this information as fact, but I'm not about to call someone who has studied the earths magnetic properties for over 40 years a liar. I'm interested in those who have done the research more than those who have a "bad feeling about this one."
Edgar Cayce, whom I adore, saw the US covered by water. Nebraska was the new coast line for Pete's sake! Sounds pretty grim.
I am not a believer in any apocalyptic prediction. We're sitting on this spinning planet, going about our business, and making the best of it. That said, a giant comet could crash into us and end our civilization. Maybe, one day, that will happen. There are people who are paid to monitor the activity within our known universe. There were a couple of objects, discovered a month or so ago, traveling (alarmingly) in line on a collision course with earth. For a minute, the hired geeks held their breath while they deliberated in their government funded observatory. This is a true story. They actually thought that we were, possibly, in big trouble. But, they realized that both comets would miss. One of those comets was expected to arrive in 2040. I can't remember the date of the other.

My point is...
If someone were to ask me if there was a comet on its way toward earth, I would say no. Not because I don't believe in comets. Not because I don't believe that the world will eventually come to a screeching halt (after all, the sun IS a star, and stars burn out). I would dismiss the worry of a comet based on what we, human beings inhabiting earth, are able to witness with our own two eyes. Based on the information at hand, that I have no reason to doubt (due to the motives of the researchers), I would rule it out.

If you ask a UFO enthusiast, who firmly believes that aliens regularly visit our planet and abduct human beings for weird experiments, this person may tell you that cattle mutilations are absolute proof of Alien activity.
Ask a zoologist and they'll tell you that a cow carcass swells in the desert climate. The eyes and reproductive organs of the animal have been plucked out by carnivorous birds that immediately eat the tender spots on the dead cow (due to easy access). There is no question in the zoologist's mind because they have a perfect understanding of the circumstances. They've simply seen it time and time again. It's familiar territory; not alien activity.

So, indulge the conspiracy theorist all you want...
but so many facts are at hand.

The way we observe the Maya civilization can be seen from different perspectives as well. They sacrificed human beings to invisible gods!
Ya know? Were they more in touch with the planet than we are? Maybe.
They didn't have much of a choice in the matter... they had yet to invent indoor plumbing.

It's just too easy to say that ancient civilizations must have known something that we don't. We have yet to invent the time machine that can take us back there and really figure out what they were up to. We're pretty sure that they didn't have a Hubble telescope. That's a fact. With that in mind, common sense would suggest that doomsday would seem a bit more vague to the Mayas than it would to us.

The NWO is a crazy one. I've read the books and have had seemingly endless hours of conversation with people who are thorough believers.
What's the advantage? Money? World domination? Really??
We've only got 80 years each. Why go through the trouble?

Originally posted by GeneralLee
dk3000 right on! It brings to mind another perplexing thought.

Logic would make one think that when the Mayans created the calendar it was with the thought in mind that the Mayan civilization would still be around when the so-called great event occured?

This is a conundrum to me. Are we to surmise that such a great civilization who could apparently predict such "earth changing" events could not in turn save themselves from total extinction?

It makes for great reading and I suppose it gives a few something to look forward to and speculate on in the years leading up to 2012. All I see is a great big "catch basin" for every conspiracy theory there is. UFO's/Alien disclosure, Planet X, Global warming, Armaggedon, Pole shifting, NWO taking over....or whatever!

Sigh, I suppose if you throw enough against the wall.....well you know the rest!

I certainly do!

Well, when the Mayans encountered Cortez and his Christian missionaries- it is no secret the missionaries destroyed much of the Mayan records because they were deemed to be devil-worshipers and evil in general.

Mel Gibson- to his credit- came up with Apocalypto based solely on remaining Mayan hieroglyphs which he used to tell the basic storyline- the rest was dramatic interpretation, speculation and historical thrown in for spice and drama.

The real truth is, like so many civilizations which encounter "new" peoples- suffer new plagues with which they are not prepared to fend off. Then add the destruction of their "heretical" histories leaves current "scientists" with only one option- to reverse engineer what did manage to survive- such as the calendar.

The fact remains that the real reason/explanation for 2012 being the last calendar day will never be known because is has been forever lost in destruction.

The same can be said for Paganism, Christianity and every culture- much was destroyed which may have and likely did reveal the information we are looking for- but now can never verify!

Here is a truly interesting read for you: www.gladwell.com...

You may just find out why you are as brilliant as any scientists and more so- without all their education and fancy worded theories at your disposal!

reply to post by dontwannadie



Why go through the trouble? I do not know. Why did scientists create the atom bomb if its only purpose is destruction? Oh wait... it could be used as a deterrent for war... well that didn't happen and they followed it up with a hydrogen bomb after knowing the history of the A-bomb. Why go through that trouble?

Its like the age old question: What came first the chicken or the egg?

An answer: who cares, lets eat dinner!

Maybe this is why go through the trouble.

So until science incorporates itself with spiritual enlightenment- it is simple another miracle with tremendous and horrible consequences.

General Paranoia and the Absurd...

Regarding the NWO conspiracy:

I may be wrong; you may be right. Let's face it.

We are a young, and sometimes dumb civilization. America's first paved road was laid down, outside of Detroit, in 1908. Rock & Roll is roughly 58 years old. Your great grandfather was most likely hitching a ride on a horse and buggy, and his dad was eating supper by candle light. Let's go further back...

150 years ago Abraham Lincoln, lived in a log cabin, in Kentucky. I know a man who is 92 years old. His father could tell him first hand stories of ole Abe's antics. Slaves were common place. Gulp.

In 1692 the Salem witch trials were in full effect. We thought these women were witches. Sigh. They were hanged, drowned, and burned alive.

In 1790 (100 years later), Parliament passed a bill that put a stop to burning people alive... good for them! Way to be generous with all that power.
Powder heads!

In the 1990's, a number of Korean army generals were executed by being burned alive... um, two steps back? What's going on here fellas?

Let's go waaay back...

Julius Caesar was born somewhere around 100 BC... that's roughly 40 or 50 lifetimes ago. In other words, to grasp this concept, your father and his father shared this planet 25 times from that date. Twenty five dads and grandpas since the birth of Julius Caesar, provided your family doesn't have a history of young heart attacks. The ancient or, in terms of dads and grandads, not so ancient Roman civilization was a pretty barbaric bunch in a sophisticated sort of way. The legendary Roman Colosseum was the main attraction, for nearly 500 years, of public execution or "games." Kind of like a football match but instead of a ball, there was a lion, and instead of a foot, there was a bloody stump from when the footballer tried to kick the "ball" and the "ball" ate him! Brutal!

Where is this going??

In the past hundred years, or so (give or take sixty), we've made gigantic leaps forward. We've invented everything. Jet planes, cell phones, telephones, televisions, automobiles, laser beams, fiber optics, space shuttles, nuclear power, the internet, blah blah blah, and on and on.
Let's just say this... from the light bulb to the internet. Good enough.

We're just really becoming a civilization. We're relatively new at it.
Things we've figured out: We shouldn't enslave human beings. Let's make this sound like commandments... Thou shall not stone women. Thou shall not feed living human beings to wild animals for sport, or otherwise. Thou shall not elect another US president who is clearly an idiot. Notice the use of the word "clearly." With each new generation there is a brighter ray of hope. Young people, contrary to popular belief, are not stupid. The world IS changing. In my opinion, the world isn't just getting warmer, but its inhabitants are also becoming smarter. People want change. The changing of the guard is happening. The NWO conspiracy is, in my opinion, complete rubbish.

It's more fuel for unnecessary paranoia. What's the advantage of the global takeover? Money? Rich people have money. To enslave humanity? Why?
Because "they" hate our freedom? *wink* Sounds familiar.

Tell me about an NWO that involves everybody standing in the welfare line, and I'll agree that it could happen. In fact, I'll even join the club.

The NWO lacks motive. David Icke will tell you that the members of the secret societies are actually lizard people in disguise!!!!! First off, there's no such thing as lizard people. A small child understands this.
Sort of undermines his whole M.O. doesn't it?
There's no bogeyman in the closet either. Dispel the b.s. and you'll be left with a more respectable pursuit... hopefully realizing that the world is actually ours. That we, citizens of earth, are responsible for getting ourselves out of the daily jam.

More on the NWO in just a bit.

Best,
Robert

reply to post by dk3000


Just to respond, quickly, to your comments. The atomic theory was developed to bring us closer with understanding our universe. The atomic bomb was developed to kill people. Human beings kill each other based on ethnicity, territory, and religion. We've acted in this way for thousands of years.
I agree with you, there will have to be a spiritual, or emotional leap in order for mankind to end this behavior. Unless you're a scientist or a catholic priest, you're probably somewhere in the middle... like myself.
The average person could rely more on common sense and general analytical abilities to determine a rough approximation of the "truth."

Q: Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
A: Either the chicken or the amoeba... definitely not the egg.