Thickest Oldest Arctic Ice Melting

Thickest Oldest Arctic Ice Melting

news.yahoo.com

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The thickest, oldest and toughest sea ice around the North Pole is melting, a bad sign for the future of the Arctic ice cap, NASA satellite data showed on Tuesday.

"Thickness is an indicator of long-term health of sea ice, and that's not looking good at the moment," Walt Meier of the National Snow and Ice Data Center told reporters in a telephone briefing.

(visit the link for the full news article)

These stories are coming out more often it seems.

"It's like looking at a Hollywood set," Meier said of an Arctic largely covered with younger ice. "It may look OK but if you could see behind you'd see ... it's just empty. And what we're seeing with the ice cover is it's becoming more and more empty underneath the ice cover."

I would really like to hear the ramifications of this continual melting. I realize that this kind may not effect the sea levels, but that water has to go somewhere.

I wonder how bad this will get?

Is the whole solar system really warming?

Or it could just be Americans denial.


AAC

news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 18-3-2008 by AnAbsoluteCreation]

It occurred to me that it may be that the solar system is heating up because we are approaching the magnetic "equilibrium" in the solar system...

I mean, do we know what effects that will have on the bodies that pass through? Have we looked at past strata to see if there's any clue?

It occurred to me that the Earth is heating up 'cos we are spewing crap into the air and cutting down all the trees.

I mean, do we know what effects that will have on the bodies that pass through life? Have we looked at pasta strata to see if there's any clue? Are some people not seeing the obvious? See my sig.

[edit on 18-3-2008 by rizla]

Since humanity is disinclined to do anything other than ravage the earth. It does not matter why the earth is warming. It only matters that it is warming.

If our leaders were to decide that the earth was warming because of us. Then they can only be expected to react the only sane and predictable way possible. Kill the rest of us off.

Let us pray that they are as stupid as we believe they are, and are not as disdaneful of the rest of us as we know they are.

Originally posted by rizla
It occurred to me that the Earth is heating up 'cos we are spewing crap into the air and cutting down all the trees.

I mean, do we know what effects that will have on the bodies that pass through life? Have we looked at pasta strata to see if there's any clue? Are some people not seeing the obvious? See my sig.

[edit on 18-3-2008 by rizla]

Oh, now don't get me wrong. I didn't mean to imply that we are guiltless, and in fact, if the solar system is experiencing a heat-up... Well, then. We're doubly screwed.

Thing is, a lot of the info given about the solar system heating up was out of NASA...and I have enough evidence to believe it is wise to at least give their stuff a grain or two of salt.

I'm unsure whether the info I was reading about there regarding the solar system heating up overall came from a reliable source. NASA, suspect, but what of the other few? Well, if that is true, that the solar system overall is heating up, then I was just wondering if it might be related to the position of the solar system relative to the "equilibrium."

Originally posted by Cyberbian
Since humanity is disinclined to do anything other than ravage the earth. It does not matter why the earth is warming. It only matters that it is warming.

If our leaders were to decide that the earth was warming because of us. Then they can only be expected to react the only sane and predictable way possible. Kill the rest of us off.

Let us pray that they are as stupid as we believe they are, and are not as disdaneful of the rest of us as we know they are.

It's not humanity. Poll the average individual and you will find that they are doing what they can do on a daily basis to help the environment. Thing is, if we stop what we are doing on a daily basis, we would starve eventually, and what we are doing is dependent on releasing carbon, directly or indirectly, about 80% of the time.

From the car you drove in to work, to the corn-saturated diet that you eat (which is highly dependent on burning carbon in its growth, transport and processing phases), to the carbon that was burned to construct your desk at work - and at home, if you have one, to the carbon that is burning to light up your screen....

If we stopped dead (as it were) where we are and refused to burn any more carbon, we would accomplish exactly what they want of us. We would die off.

So... We are entrained as a society. And the Big Petro-Oil guys get rich.

But I will tell you what, when I heard that free energy was available, I did some experimentation with some of Wilhelm Reich's work and I'm convinced that there is enough evidence to at least give it the benefit of the doubt. I'm willing to keep trying to get a workable thing going as I am blessed with resources. Because if we can draw the Dark Energy into use, we will not have to release carbon.

So besides the fact that with free energy and the point at which our technological development stand mean that we could create an Elite standard of living for every soul that cared to partake, it is also vital for the health of our planet.

So any of you motivated to see that future, I recommend you read and experiment with what you find about Wilhelm Reich, Nikola Tesla, Royal Rife, Viktor Scauberger. Give it the benefit of the doubt, because if we get it working...it WILL be worth it.

It is pretty much a non story. Northern hemisphere sea ice is back up to 14 million square km. It represents an increase of 11 million square km over the summer which is the single biggest jump since satellite records began. Sea ice is up 1 million square km over last year.

Polar ice looks good as well. Looking at this map the polar ice looks healthier than it did in 1980 with much better coverage at the pole.

igloo.atmos.uiuc.edu...

And don't let these stories fool you. The ability to maintain and grow ice is more a product of precipitation than temperature. The north pole averages barely freezing in the summer. It takes more than that to melt off that much ice. The sun however can burn off a great deal of snow and ice even with temperatures far below freezing. A sunny day at 20 degrees can do more harm to snow and ice than 30 degrees and cloudy.

Precipitation and sunlight. Remember that before you buy into the temperature hysteria.

Also keep an eye on the southern hemisphere. Sea ice remained very healthy even through their summer months. Sea ice there looks to be quite a bit above normal.

arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu...

Unless solar activity rebounds and global temperatures recover we may see the same thing happen to the northern hemisphere this summer.

I have a problem with all this.

I can remember when scientists were claiming the world was cooling and the threat of an ice age coming. This was just after the Earth's getting hotter and drier from the droughts of the 50's scare. Now it's global warming, again, with doubts within the science community finally being shown about that.

The age old argument really does still apply. If mankind changes the climate, why did the earth have so radical changes in the past before mankind had the capability to do so. CO2 levels have been tremendously higher than they are now, average temps have been hotter and colder; all without man's help.

The real reason for all this debate is nothing but funding from governmental groups and agencies around the world. Science floats on funding, funding derives from what is popular and the polls show. Private industry spends money on research and development for information about their industry or market. This is a narrow view. The government just shovels money at colleges and universities for whatever they want. This is where the bulk of the climate change information comes from.

As for historical satellite information, this has happened within my lifetime. Logic dictates that I am a source of historical knowledge also.

Originally posted by hinky
The age old argument really does still apply. If mankind changes the climate, why did the earth have so radical changes in the past before mankind had the capability to do so. CO2 levels have been tremendously higher than they are now, average temps have been hotter and colder; all without man's help.

Well... According to some, the CO2 levels haven't been this high for 650,000 years... Who to believe, who to believe...?

Originally posted by Indy
Also keep an eye on the southern hemisphere. Sea ice remained very healthy even through their summer months. Sea ice there looks to be quite a bit above normal.

arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu...

Unless solar activity rebounds and global temperatures recover we may see the same thing happen to the northern hemisphere this summer.

Not to pick nits...but the chart you linked to was a one year chart. Without a number of years' charts to compare, this chart is meaningless. The question is not, "What did it do last year?" It is, "What does it look like compared to previous annual cycles."

Originally posted by Indy
Polar ice looks good as well. Looking at this map the polar ice looks healthier than it did in 1980 with much better coverage at the pole.

igloo.atmos.uiuc.edu...

It's weird... I looked at these charts and am very confused. First, white does not seem to be a color in the key. Second, I looked at 1980 - the opening comparison offering. Then I looked at 1985. As far as I could tell, they were the same pic. I checked out 1990, same thing. I kept going up to 2004. All looked like the same pic. No white to speak of at all.

Then 2005 - there was "no data." And then in 2006 - lo and behold, a whole lot of white appears. It looks like the same pic as 2008. 2006, 2007, both look like the 2008 pic.

So I'm inclined to think something is very wrong with the data offered at this site.

What is the white supposed to represent, since the key is a rainbow, and white isn't a part of it.

And why did it suddenly appear in tremendous quantity (with no sign of it prior to 2005, and then a year of no data, and then 2006 - BAM! There is ALL this white?

I'm placing the probability of this being a propaganda piece with false data at a very high point (94% probability), and would then ask why the BS data?

Well... According to some, the CO2 levels haven't been this high for 650,000 years... Who to believe, who to believe...?

I believe that claim. The problem is, they were that high 650,000 years ago (as I deduce from that statement) and much higher at other, earlier periods. Yet we don't find fossils of roasted dinos, or, for that matter, any indication that the biosphere was harmed in any way.

reply to post by Amaterasu


CO2 levels rise and fall at a rate humans have difficulty acknowledging. The Earth has alternated between liquid poles and global ice ages for many millions of years. That much is perfectly normal. There are some that say we force an unnaturally early change with our pollution. Pollution stinks but Salt is a more potent agent in climate change. You know what it does to freezing temperatures.

www.seed.slb.com...

The above link has a lot of great information on global temperatures over the last 425,000 years. There is a great chart that shows a very regular cycle of temps during that time period. the last very warm period (warmer than now) was about 120,000 years ago, before that about 240,000 years ago, before that about 330,000 years ago, and 410,000 years ago.
The current warming is right within the time when you would expect another warmer period to occur.
It certainly looks like the earth is right on schedule.
The chart also shows that over that time period, the earth spends considerable more time in cold periods, than it does in warm periods.
Another thing that is obvious is how quickly the earth reverts to ice age status after a brief warming spell.
So, from that chart, my advice is:
ENJOY THE WARMING PERIOD. IT PROBABLY WON'T LAST VERY LONG.