STS-75 Tether Incident - Mystery solved! Breaking News!

First, let me ask and explain to me how this is "Breaking News"? This is not news, it just your opinion based on nothing really. Second, the video footage by NASA, was never out of focus and also there is too many circular objects floating around for it to be a "camera light reflection". As the member cams explained to you, the object are flying with them. Debris doesn't just fly with you, they might fly away from you but not with you. Any case, if you're going to start threads like this to prove something, atleast have something more to proof your theories/opinion.

First of all i wish to thank a few people for clearing things up for me.
WFA
waveguide3
Armap
a big S for ya

Anyways, as always i am letting my self get backsided totally by forgeting which optics they are using in this footage.

Here is a good page describing it.
As i can understand it this camera is seeing both UV and near to the complete spectrum of IR.

As i have been thinking about this and the comment from the astronauts on board, where they seeing these debris as with their own eyes, or were they watching the debris from a screen?
Now this could change alot, if they were seeing the 'debris' with their own eyes, if i were them i would'nt wish to be up there any more.

But if they are seeing this from the optic p.o.v, how do we know that these things in space are within our spectrum that we can percieve with our eyes?

If these are already known things, sorry!

I have never been convinced by this "tether" footage. Yes, some of the circular objects appear to pass behind the tether, but I suspect that it's nothing more than an optical illusion.

Of course, I could be wrong.

reply to post by Mogget


I agree that it is more or less impossible to say wether the objects are passing behind of or in front of the tether but what about the objects slowing, stopping and changing direction?

[edit on 19-3-2008 by Whiterabbit29]

If you were to look at a drop of water under a Microscope you would see something that looks similar to the space video.
www.youtube.com...

Look at 1:11 and 1:46

I say they are life forms of some kind swimming in the oceans of outerspace.

reply to post by Balez


Good morning Balez! Great question. I think I may have an answer for you.

What the camera is seeing (in the experiment on the page you referenced) is every band of the spectrum, all the way from UV to IR. The visible portion of this spectrum (visible to humans that is) lies somewhere in the middle.

As pertains to the NASA Camera, I'd personally LOVE to see a tech-data sheet on the camera itself, including filters, etc. To date I've not found one online. If anyone can find one, I'd really love to check it out.

Knowing firsthand about the equipment used in the footage is key to understanding what we see in the footage. It's curious to me that with so much controversy over this particular mission, that NASA doesn't have an easily findable fact sheet posted on the equipment involved. I'm pretty sure they know that such info is required for a thorough investigation.

I did happen to find this, a quote from the head of Astrochemistry at Goddard (NASA facility in Maryland). But let me say that I really can't endorse the site I found it on (Bad Astronomy Forum, Phil Plait is a complete idiot in my view, but he's not the poster here...). I also haven't studied David Sereda's work in enough depth to understand his arguments. But it looks upon a cursory examination like he's actually conducting tests to prove his arguments, so that at least is a plus in my book.

Anyway, on to what I found, this is from Sereda's reply to Jim Oberg's (very poorly done) 'debunking' of the STS-75 footage:

"Dr. Joseph Nuth, III, Head of Astrochemistry at the Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, MD. He said that the shuttle’s video cameras could see near UV photons in a letter to me dated April 3, 2000: “Although the camera itself may respond to x-rays and gamma rays (usually as noise), the optics do not serve to focus on anything but visible and near-UV photons. I would be amazed if the optics were not quartz so that the UV cut-off wavelength would be ~ 180 nm. If sapphire the cut-off drops to 160 nm and for CaF2 the cut-off is ~ 135 nm.” UV is divided into near, far and extreme. The near UV is higher in wavelengths frequency than the color violet. It is also invisible to the human eye and spans almost as wide as the visible light spectrum in wavelengths. Many of NASAs video cameras see well into the invisible Infra-red also. Infrared is lower in wavelength frequency than the color red."
Source:
www.bautforum.com...

So my answer to your question in short is, YES, it's possible that the astronauts actually saw these objects, but NO they did not see them as they appear in the footage.

My extended answer would postulate that we need to know the specific tech data on the camera involved before we can make any sort of determination as to what these objects would look like in the visible spectrum of light.

Hope that helps Balez, GREAT question!

-WFA

People have to remember the distance at which the Tether Incident was filmed. It was filmed from approximately 75 miles away. For these ice particles to show up with-in the camera frame at that distance, must have been a miracle in itself.

For the particles to be so sharply out-of-focus (and I say this because they maintained a crisp edge - yet, were supposed to be "out-of-focus) they must have been halfway between the tether and Columbia.

Why did the ice particles seem to float with-in the camera's field of view. These particles must have stayed within 1 centimeter of space, floating about freely, to and fro (in that centimeter).

The circumstances that are needed to create these out-of-focus ice particles at that distance would be nearly impossible - in my opinion.

Who knows. Maybe the cosmos aligned in perfect harmony and these ice particles danced about freely, with-in a space of 1 centimeter, 35 miles from Columbia, being blown in different directions by solar winds. I guess crazier things have happened ... like the parting of the Red Sea.

Concerning the direction shifts exhibited by many of the 'particles/debris', I have already suggested the possible effect of the Shuttle's thrusters, but there may be other, less obvious and less understood mechanisms. One thought I have concerns the effects of electrostatic charge. The space environment is quite different from anything we experience, so we should be careful in assuming these 'dust/ice' particles will move as we would expect them to in our more familiar environment. The intense solar as well as cosmic radiation may well impart static charges to small particles sufficient to have effects on their movement. They may exhibit direction changes due to static repulsion or attraction when in proximity of other bodies like the Shuttle. In my opinion, a little understood physical mechanism is more plausible than any suggestion that it's due to some form of intelligent control.

WG3

I'm wondering if that Tether was used for a different purpose. As some kind of satelite or something to go deeper in space, possibly with a camera in it? Maybe even some sort of way to try and communicate with ET life. But anyways I believe it was ET's in their ships passing through, and checking out this tether.

[edit on 19-3-2008 by jca2005]

reply to post by WitnessFromAfar


Thanks for the answer WFA

NASA is bad!
They say that much of the more recent material they have should be online, but heck, i can't even access their movie archive.
I get this short movie on the mission archives but that is like ten secconds or something.

You know, i used to have the full footage of STS-75 it was almost 4gb in size, but the storage i had it on got fried.

So, this hole in the middle could be the 'real' object in itself, and the rest could be an electromagnetic charge, or a controlled plasma of some sort?
Just speculating

reply to post by jca2005


I think that I read that the tether and the attached "satellite" fell to Earth.

Originally posted by waveguide3
The space environment is quite different from anything we experience, so we should be careful in assuming these 'dust/ice' particles will move as we would expect them to in our more familiar environment. The intense solar as well as cosmic radiation may well impart static charges to small particles sufficient to have effects on their movement. They may exhibit direction changes due to static repulsion or attraction when in proximity of other bodies like the Shuttle. In my opinion, a little understood physical mechanism is more plausible than any suggestion that it's due to some form of intelligent control.
WG3

Thanks Waveguide for that thoughtful follow-up!

b309302 and I actually discussed this earlier in the thread, and in case you missed it, I'd like to hear your thoughts on those posts.

b309302 posted a sentiment very close to your own, here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I missed it the first time too (long thread! ), but I noticed when b309302 re-itterated his thoughts here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I replied here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

In brief, my argument was that even in space (especially in space in fact) we are dealing with all four forces, and the electromagnetic forces should be the strongest.

With the tether itself being charged to a high degree (from the experiment) I'd assumed that any ionized (or charged) particles (or debris) should line up along the magnetic field lines of the tether.

I'm pretty sure you know what I mean, but for those who are unfamiliar, I'll reference an example. When pouring small metal filings (tiny pieces of metal) over a magnet, you will see the metal appear to 'jump' into ellipse like lines surrounding the magnetic, lining up with the magnets (invisible to the eye) magnetic field lines.

Anyway, Waveguide, I'd love to hear your take on this, and how other forces might prohibit this...

I really like the way you think!

-WFA

This explanation is complete rubbish. If you look at all the other anomylous STS footage, you will see that there are the same artifacts, as there is in this video and that those artifacts cleary change direction and speed. Also, I would like to point out that in one certain STS video, a disk appears from nowhere as if blinking into our reality and then descends toward a thunderstorm on Earth. Now, if you look on the STS-75 footage, you will also cleary see objects appearing OUT OF NOWHERE and you will see them having slight changes of direction and speed as they approach the teather. All you have to do is look and see for yourself. I don't know, maybe it's hard to see if you're a sceptic in the first place. To even consider this explanation as a viable reason all of this is happening is stupidity. And by the way, the video you provided reaches no conclusions until you replicate the same instance in the exact same circumstances. So unless you happen to have a means of getting into orbit and can lay your hands on around $975,000 for some nice optics like the one used in this vid (An Ultra wide-band IR CCD, amongst others) you should put this little theory to rest. Hardly mystery solved IMO!

reply to Balez
post by Balez


LOL OMG my side still hurts both of u OMG funny funny( vacume WOW so so funny dust and all )

[edit on 19-3-2008 by plasmacutter]

Much emphasis has been placed on the apparent movement of the discs 'behind' the tether. In my opinion, this is an illusion caused by the relative brightness of the tether and the particles generating the optical discs. To illustrate the illusion, I made the following video to explain why some satellites appear to move behind the moon when video'd using a typical video camera. While this experiment doesn't replicate the physical tether/particles setup, it does illustrate the principle that creates the effect.

Here, I have a bright light source to simulate the moon. The vertical line is a CCD artefact due to light saturation. The fuzz on the right is a lens reflection of the light source. A thin weighted string is passed back and forth in front of the light, so the camera sees it by reflected light as it approaches or leaves the light disc. When it's located within the disc, it's invisible due to the light saturation. Note the light flicker as the string blots out the bulb filament. The interesting thing is when you apply digital FX like edge detection, the results suggest something quite different from what actually occurs. It appears that the smaller object moves behind the larger, brighter one.

Illumination Experiment
WG3




[edit on 20-3-2008 by waveguide3]

reply to post by waveguide3


I can appreciate your experiment. I thought the same thing when I first viewed the tether incident a few years back, but after careful examination, I couldn't come to the conclusion that it was an optical illusion caused by the illumination by IR.

They just don't resemble the same effect:

I'm sure many of you have, but for those who've never seen the video, check out David Sereda's take on the tether incident:

David Sereda on The Tether Incident

I'll be the first to admit that Sereda can be a little kooky, but he has a decent analysis of the incident in the video provided.

Another factor to consider here is that the tether cable is actually orientated vertically towards the Earth. Few people seem to appreciate that. Comment has been made as to why the disks all appear below/behind the tether. I would also ask for an update on Serada's size estimates. Those passing the lower end of the tether must be considerably larger than the mile or so he suggests. Indeed, they must be tens of miles across. The more you consider it, the dafter David gets.

WG3

reply to post by waveguide3


I am glad to see I am not the only one making experiments to see how things look like.

If everybody that has the capabilities of doing an experiment to test any theory did it I think many theories would be abandon.


reply to post by tyranny22

In my experiment, where I had the light in front of the string, I think the result is more like the tether video. There is even a place where it looks like the string is casting a shadow over the red circle, when in fact the red circle was just a light more than 50cm in front of the string.

Ok, lets say that these 'things' in the tether footage is debris of some sort, from somewhere.

But where are they? Near the camera? Or near the tether itself?

If they are near the camera and this is debris that are around the shuttle, or something from the shuttle itself, what explains the erratical movements?
Thrusters?

If it is close to the tether itself, or even debris from the tether, why erratical movements?
Since these parts of debris seem to be going in all directions, we have something unexplained then, that means that they have to be affected by some kind of force that we are not seeing in this footage.

Just wondering...