A Severe Problem With the "Breaking News" Threads

Greetings.

I have noticed lately some real problems with the "Breaking News" section of this site. It seems that some people are blatantly ignoring the rules about posting a thread there. That forum exists to inform other members about breaking news, NOT to put your political spin on it or sensationalize it to get more views.

* Copy the exact headline of the story into the headline field, don't make one up or sensationalise it. Submissions with inaccurate, biased or otherwise deceptive headlines may be moved, closed or deleted. Obviously, some editorial latitude will be allowed if the original headline is too long (gets truncated) or too obscure.

Its not hard. There is no need to "sensationalize" the headline or add your spin to it. One of the most despicable things a newspaper does is to sensationalize their headlines and we don't need to stoop to that on ATS.

A few quick examples;

Reported Headline- "Iran Caught Red-Handed"
Actual Headline- "New Documents Show Iran Still Working on Nukes"

They were not caught "red-handed" doing anything. there is some documents that suggest it, thats all.

Reported Headline- "Barack Obama calls pastors remarks "inflammatory and appalling."
Actual Headline- "On My Faith and My Church"
And it was written by Obama, breaking another rule about sourcing blogs. While I feel that this would have been a fine regular thread if it was posted anywhere else, it does not belong in the "Breaking News" forum.

Reported Headline- "Students attempt Citizens Arrest on Rove!"
Actual Headline- "Rove taunted at University of Iowa"

Reported Headline- "Could we really run out of Food?"
Actual Headline- ??????????????

I dont know the actual headline because it was from a temporary link, breaking yet another rule about posting in the "breaking News" forum.

Reported Headine- "Knock Knock, Who's there? It's the police."
Actual Headline- "D.C. offers amnesty to people who let police search their homes for guns, drugs"

These are just a few of the many many examples. Don;t be in such a hurry to get those points, take your time and follow the rules. It makes your posts better when you do not need to change the title to convey your point.

i just Ignore topics like that
dont reply to them.

worst topics are those that dont have any input from the org posters

example

www.abovetopsecret.com...

just copy and paste nothing at all from the OP

and thats how alot of topics are turning out to be
since the old system was taken down

ATSN Rules need to be reinforced.

I don't know if it's a severe problem,

but I have noticed it. Yes.

The breaking news is being used as sort of a bull-horn right now. Lots of good topics are being brought forward but it's obvious that certain threads are made to call attention to things that are not really breaking news...

I would assume the only thing we can do about this is have the mods exercise judgement on what constitutes real breaking NEWS for ATS. If it doesn't fit, move it to BTS or something. Or just delete it.

We've got some really good stories slipping through our fingers because 3 or 4 un-needed articles push them out of the way.

reply to post by Lotiki


I agree,
this is my favourite forum, and it seems that a sort of tabloid sensationalism has come into it - I don't know if this is just a tactic to get a thread noticed, but I am not keen on it.
It's misleading and puts me off posting, as do the threads with "BREAKING" or "MUST READ" inserted before the headline.

I understand that people sometimes feel strongly about a news issue - but there are many batter ways to get the thread noticed.
Writing a thought provoking opinion on the news item itself is the best way IMO.

That said, this is exactly the type of thing that the complaint/suggestion function is for - BUT still a very good and valid point.



[edit on 15/3/2008 by budski]

reply to post by Lotiki


On at least a couple of the threads you mentioned, early on, I considered using the alert button to protest the "creative" titles.

But I shirked my duty with the thought that surely the mods would catch the problem.

But they didn't.

And the threads went multi-page, full of chest-beating tripe and nonsense.

In the future, I'll be a little quicker to click and raise the issue.

With the intention of assisting the mods to be better informed and to help lighten the load of a tough, sometimes thankless responsibility.

I hadn't yet really noticed what you wrote about. But I am somewhat anoyed at old news still in this section. I feel that these should be date sensitive. I would prefer posts have OP dates attached anyway. There's always room for improvements all around. Is there also a training video?

reply to post by aleon1018


That's a good point you've made there.

It's generally accepted that the Breaking news forum is for news no more than 48 hours old (correct me if I'm wrong on that - it's from memory).

So any 'news' found on the net that is 'out of date' should go to the 'other news' forum.

Why not move all inactive breaking news threads over a weak old to a separate area.
Would clean that forum up a bit and help to keep on top of what's being posted there seeing as it appears to be one of the fastest moving forums.

Along with the sensational thread titles, more attention should be paid to the actual topics being posted in BAN. Many of the threads there belong in other forums.

Are you a mod? No. Have you been here long? No. [...] Why don't you contribute to the community before you come hear and try to change it. Our threads have supporting facts that back up our headlines and thats why they are still up. Just because we make the headline better does not mean that they should be taken down. Why don't you complain about the threads like the one where the guy was saying that U.S. troops kill innocent civilians in Iraq and then the guy post a video of terrorist pointing a RPG at a helicopter? If you are going to complain at least find the real culprits. The mods try to do a good job here as it is their job not yours and thats a good thing.



edited personal attack.

The ball, not the player, please.

[edit on 16/3/08 by masqua]

reply to post by Sky watcher

* Copy the exact headline of the story into the headline field, don't make one up or sensationalise it. Submissions with inaccurate, biased or otherwise deceptive headlines may be moved, closed or deleted. Obviously, some editorial latitude will be allowed if the original headline is too long (gets truncated) or too obscure.

What part of the above don't you get?

Just because your thread wasn't "moved, closed or deleted" does it mean you're above the rules?

I've had a BAN thread moved precisely because I followed the TACs concerning thread naming conventions, and a certain staff member (who shall go unnamed) took issue with the word "NeoCon."

You got your points for that thread, in fact you got one post out of me.

And you might have received more input from certain parties if you hadn't played fast and easy with the TACs.

Sheesh, you want some cheese to go with your whine?

Edit to add:

Don't the *volunteer* staff members have enough to do without having to tidy up after members who fabricate BAN titles to fish for more points?





[edit on 16-3-2008 by goosdawg]

Originally posted by Sky watcher
Are you a mod? No.

Did I pretend to be? No. I am a member who has noticed that some people think its ok to blatently break the T&C over and over again.

Have you been here long? No.

Actually, friend, I have been here longer than you. When I moved, I lost my cookies and could not remember my old login password or e-mail and had to start a new account. Heres my old Profile, registered over a year before yours.....

Are you a cry baby? Apparently.

From the T&C

2) Behavior: You will not behave in an abusive, hateful and/or racist manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone.

Calling me a "Cry-Baby" for expecting people to obey the T&C that they AGREED TO is abusive harassment and hateful.

Why don't you contribute to the community before you come hear and try to change it.

Again, I have contributed way more than you will ever know.

Our threads have supporting facts that back up our headlines and thats why they are still up. Just because we make the headline better does not mean that they should be taken down.

Your thread wasw the first on my list. Your headline was "Iran Caught Red-Handed", witch implies they were actually caught making nukes.
The actual story says that a group that is opposed to the government and that is known to have released fake documents before, released some documents that show Iran might possibly still be working on nukes.

HUGE DIFFERENCE.

You agreed to the following when you signed up and when you post in that forum;

Copy the exact headline of the story into the headline field, don't make one up or sensationalise it. Submissions with inaccurate, biased or otherwise deceptive headlines may be moved, closed or deleted. Obviously, some editorial latitude will be allowed if the original headline is too long (gets truncated) or too obscure.

Saying its ok to not do what you agreed to do makes you a liar, pure and simple. Defending your dishonesty is well,dishonest.

Why don't you complain about the threads like the one where the guy was saying that U.S. troops kill innocent civilians in Iraq and then the guy post a video of terrorist pointing a RPG at a helicopter? If you are going to complain at least find the real culprits. The mods try to do a good job here as it is their job not yours and thats a good thing.

[...]
I have posted in that very thread you are speaking about. If you are going to attack me on my posting habits, at least make an attempt to look at my posts.


[edit on 16-3-2008 by Lotiki]


removed persanal attack

two wrongs don't make a right

[edit on 16-3-2008 by Lotiki]

[edit on 16/3/08 by masqua]

Jeez guys,
is there really any need for hostility?

The OP makes a very good and valid point - it's not personal, just an observation about the T&C.

If you feel the need to defend a position, why not be civil about it, rather than becoming defensive and hostile - at the end of the day, it's just news stories and there's no need to get riled about it.

How exactly do I make a formal complaint about another member?

I have received a UTU from a certain someone that contains multiple insults and will post it as soon as I have permission.

Maybe we need to ask why this member feels the need to attack other members instead of backing up his actions.......

Usually, people resort to childish name-calling and insults when they have no argument.

[edit on 16-3-2008 by Lotiki]

Send a u2u to the mods outlining exactly what the complaint is - don't post the u2u that you received from another member, it's against the rules and is likely to land you in hot water.

You can use the complaint function in the member centre to u2u the mods.

I'd then suggest leaving them to it, and not getting involved in any arguments or recriminations with the member you wish to complain about - it's not worth the hassle

Hope this helps.


[edit on 16/3/2008 by budski]

reply to post by Lotiki


Just to let you know we are very aware of these problems and try to fix them as they come up.

Is the breaking of the T&C having any adverse effect? (Thats not rhetorical, im actually asking for your opinion!).

Seems to me if its not lowering the quality of posts then why bother enforcing a rule which wont make an improvement?

If it is lowering the quality of posts, then shouldnt the mods be onto it like flies on honey? The mods do a lot of work though, maybe we need a couple more mods to bump up the amount of moderation. After all, there are only about 50 mods in total for a community of about 16000 active users!

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
Is the breaking of the T&C having any adverse effect? (Thats not rhetorical, im actually asking for your opinion!).

Indeed it is. Lets take a look at my first example to see how.

Reported Headline--Iran Caught Red Handed

This headline implies that Iran was caught building nukes, no holds barred, undeniable, no way to refute it. Iran did it.

Actual Headline---"New Documents Show Iran Still Working on Nukes"

When we read the story, we see that a group that is opposed to the Iranian government and has released fake documents before , released some peices of paper that suggest Iran is still working on it.

In no way , shape or form should that headline be there. It's sole reason is to draw people in to increase the view/post count on the thread, thus increasing the OPs points. Incredibly dis-honest and against the T&C.

As to not posting the correct types of news here, what if someone had an actual piece of good alternative news but it get buried under "The U.S. Marines bombed some Taliban again" becasue people cant understand what "alternative" means.
I think a great idea would be to bring back the "submission" type system where we type up our complete breaking news thread and submit it. It goes to a forum where a mod can approve it, edit it for spelling\grammer\titles (ensureing it fits in the sites T&C) and post it under the authors name.

[edit on 16-3-2008 by Lotiki]

I'm reminded of the line... "Everyone talks about the weather, but no one does anything about it."

From time to time we get a number of threads that complain about the apparent lack of quality in this forum or that forum, and how we (staff) should consider doing something about it. Well, first let me reassure you that there is nothing more important to me than the quality of content that appears on ATS. Also, I've taken note of the points brought up in this thread and will consider some solutions.

However...

There is one thing that comes in very close to "nothing more important than..." and that is our stance of editorial neutrality. We would prefer that our members work out which topics are more important (flags) and which topics deserve discussion (replies) and which posts are inspiring (stars).

While it's unfortunate that we see what many consider to be lesser-quality threads in the Breaking Alternative News forum, can you honestly say the system isn't working on Breaking Alternative News Forum Overview page? While it may be irritating for some to suffer the lesser submissions, I would say the important and relevant threads are indeed being properly recognized and elevated by our member activity. I don't see any topic that doesn't deserve to be on that page.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


And I will post the proper thread titles from now on even if the title of the original story is mis-leading in my opinion. I would have changed it if I was asked to do so. I am glad to see you chime in on this Skeptic and the comments you have made. Now I am off to get some rest because tomorrows Monday and I'm not to happy about that. Goodnight my fellow crazy tin haters.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
I'm reminded of the line... "Everyone talks about the weather, but no one does anything about it."

We cant do anything about it if no-one talks about it though. Just as you cant do anything about the weather without talking about it.

From time to time we get a number of threads that complain about the apparent lack of quality in this forum or that forum, and how we (staff) should consider doing something about it. Well, first let me reassure you that there is nothing more important to me than the quality of content that appears on ATS. Also, I've taken note of the points brought up in this thread and will consider some solutions.

Please understand, I actually thought I was being stupid and started this thread to see if anyone agreed with me. Judging by the overwhelming positive response, it appears that the current system is not working as well as it could. I understand that new things are tried all the time on ATS, and not all of them work as well as we all hope they will. However, you have to try out new things or the main page of this site would still look like this;

There is one thing that comes in very close to "nothing more important than..." and that is our stance of editorial neutrality. We would prefer that our members work out which topics are more important (flags) and which topics deserve discussion (replies) and which posts are inspiring (stars).

"Editorial Neutrality" does not come into effect in this case. The BAN forum exists so that members can inform other members of breaking alt. news. OPs are more than welcome and even required to post their personnel opinion on the story they link to. There is absolutely no reason they would need to drastically change to headline, especially to something that is misleading as to the actual article. Editing these posts by mods would simply ensure that the hard work of other people is accurately portrayed on this forum. I can imagine how upset I would be If I saw my work on another forum but under a different Headline.Since a mod can't simply change the title to anything they want, it would not interfere with your neutrality.

While it's unfortunate that we see what many consider to be lesser-quality threads in the Breaking Alternative News forum, can you honestly say the system isn't working on Breaking Alternative News Forum Overview page? While it may be irritating for some to suffer the lesser submissions, I would say the important and relevant threads are indeed being properly recognized and elevated by our member activity. I don't see any topic that doesn't deserve to be on that page.

You are right, the system is working. And while some may think its "good enough", I and others think it can be made better. That should be the goal of everyone on this site, how to make it better. Or else ATS would still look like the above pic.

[edit on 16-3-2008 by Lotiki]