What's happening to this site?

Originally posted by Larry B.
I've been around here for a few months and It seem lately that everyone wants to debunk every thread. There has been a huge increase in the ratio of debunkers. It's almost like a board of skeptics. . . . . . . Maybe it's just me or it could be human nature to discredit the other person.

I quite agree.

Have thought about this issue extensively the last year or so.

Certainly HEALTHY skepticism is wise, even essential on such a board as this.

However, it has become the case that seemingly 80-90% of everyone has to prove . . . their manhood . . . or fierce independence or intellectual stature or . . . how sexy they are or some such

BY DEBUNKING, NAYSAYING, BEING CONTRARIAN KNOW-IT-ALL'S PARADING THEIR ARROGNACE AND HAUGHTINESS.

It's sickening and at least depressing.

I do think the era we live in has a part in it. Certainly human nature has a part in it--one upping the next guy. "Winning" by putting the other guy down so one feels better about one's self. Trashing folks prematurely so one is the FIRST to successfully do so and SCORE!

I think it's become a machine-gun line-up to even imagine posting an experience that doesn't have a long line of at least a dozen Nobel laureates affirming it's "scientifically" "PROVEN" validity.

And pity the poor bloke who's academic writings had to have the assist of several English experts and who also happens to be poor at spelling. Further proof of 2 year old idiocy--no questions asked nor none considered.

I wonder . . . perhaps it would be good to implement a fee scale . . .

1. NAYSAYING/DEBUNKING WITHIN THE FIRST 4 HOURS OF A POST COSTS 500 POINTS.

2. within the first 4-8 hours of a post--250 points.

3. within the first 8-12 hours of a post--150 points.

4. within the first 12-24 hours of a post--100 points

5. within the first 24-48 hours of a post--50 points

And let 10% of the resulting post fines go to the poster being debunked if the debunking appears to have been ill-founded or excessively shrilly, intense . . . after 30 days of reflection by the mods.


Or some such.

It's more than a little annoying--it's GREATLY OFF-PUTTING.

For some probably perverse reason . . . i have an image of ancient Greek athletes running a race in the nude with both jaws and other things flapping 90 miles an hour in the breeze . . . trying to outdo one another in all such respects and mostly managing to look & sound like idiots--or at best--harsh, insensitive, crass, demeaning and derisive boors.

We can do better.

We can do a LOT better.

And we can 'shout down' those given to such obsessive and derisive addictions.

imho, of course.

Originally posted by BO XIAN

BY DEBUNKING, NAYSAYING, BEING CONTRARIAN KNOW-IT-ALL'S PARADING THEIR ARROGNACE AND HAUGHTINESS.

Welcome to the internet

Originally posted by FremenBlueEyes
in the thread ufos over the pentagon in 1949 i invited the owner of the photograph to join the thread and i think he was scared off by naysayers which is very unfortunate.
he joined ats because of an invite from me and he hasn't been on for a while since his last post due to, what i believe, are people telling him that the photo that has been in his family for about 60 years is a stupid photo when he really believes he has something geniune.

That's probably the one thing that upsets me the most. That is, when someone is invited to a thread that is discussing one of their photos, or videos, whatever the case may be, and is kind enough to register and join that thread, they are usually 'ran off' by the 2nd page of posts by some of ATS's least mature members. I started a thread once about a video I saw and early on invited the original youtube poster to join the discussion, which he/she did, only to be ran off. Fortunately, he/she later returned at the request of myself and other (more reasonable) members.

I think that when we do invite a non-member to join a discussion, that we need to make sure to stick with the thread. In many cases they may have never heard of or visited ATS, not expecting what they are about to get themselves into. These threads may be more productive if those who 'cry fake' every time they open a thread would not even bother. That is not to say that I don't appreciate debunkers and what they have to say (I personally like to debunk rods), but I don't appreciate the personal jabs.

My scientific expertise and mathmatical skills are extremely limited, so about all that I can add to a thread is common sense and reasoning, but when one jumps in and the only thing that they can say is "it's fake, go home, thread closed" then they have basically contributed nothing but an extra line to read and you have to wonder why they are here in the first place.

ATS is a great place to be. Let's play nice. I think that we would really regret it if ever we have the truth right in front of us, only to let it slip away because of some member's impatience and ignorance.

[edit on 15-3-2008 by hsur2112]

reply to post by Larry B.


Seeing the title of your post, I couldn't help but be glad at least someone was feeling the same as I.

While ATS is a much less pleasant experience for me, I am grateful for the information I get here and the chance to read the intelligent posts that characterise the majority of serious ATS'ers. There are a couple of posters who seem to get away with murder, but I prefer to think that that is merely my perspective as their opponent rather than editorial policy on the part of ATS.

This thread was originally started in the ufo or alien forum.

Just so you all know the thought topic where the OP originally wanted the conversation started.

reply to post by Larry B.


if you want the to experience real de-bunking, try being a scientist who comes up with a theory, and then is peer-reviewed for what seems like an eternity. then you will understand why most of them are rather conservative, softspoken people. this forum is childs play as far as de-bunking is concerned.

BO XIAN:

BY DEBUNKING, NAYSAYING, BEING CONTRARIAN KNOW-IT-ALL'S PARADING THEIR ARROGNACE AND HAUGHTINESS.

If this was all just some like-mined circle jerk I doubt most people would enjoy it. If your ideas can't stand up to reasonable scrutiny then they probably need revising.

Acidtastic:

Welcome to the internet

Yup. Without a foil this would all grow rather boring rather quickly, imho.

Originally posted by azzllin
And as soon as the debunkers arrive the thread begins to die because people wont take on their argument or defend their own beliefs.

That's not the debunkers fault, that's the believers fault. Wouldn't you say?

Debunking is necessary, rude attitudes and ignorance of the subject followed by anger at defeat instead of more research and working together is what destroys threads and relationships alike. There should never be defeat, only a truth reached, and that should make everyone happy.

[edit on 15-3-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

I would like to take this opportunity to point out something. Debunkers are a good thing, they keep the board clear of two bit hoaxers and stale discoveries on you tube. (Much like buzzards keep the roads clean on our highways. Just kidding guys.) And true believers give hope to the lost and bewildered that wonder in off the internet, so they too have a special place. (Even if some of them do sound like escapees from a place with white coats. Again, kidding.)

Now imagine how hard it is to keep all of you from fighting, all the while trying to encourage new posters, people with stories we really want to hear, to stick around? Imagine them visiting your house, and all they hear is fighting and name calling, I doubt they would want to return.

So think of it the next time you want to tell your long time rival how the cow ate the cabbage. And then do it nicely. Nobody will be scared off, turned off, or silenced, if everyone will lead by example. Speak what you believe, but type with a smile on your face. See the new poster as yourself when you first came to the internet CT neighborhood. Be helpful and not hurtful.

We're all here for the truth.

Sometimes a post's premise is so horrible (even a hoax) you cannot help but debunk it. Deny Ignorance. Uh-Rah!

However, the frustrating thing is the inevitable comments in certain forums. You make a ghost thread and the trolls show up saying everyone in the thread is a dolt because 'Ghosts don't exist.' In the religion forum, the predictable crowd will ask, 'Why all the debate? God doesn't exist.' In the UFO forum, 'This thread is stupid because everyone knows there's no proof of aliens.' Ad nauseam. Being a slow learner, I finally realized it is easier to ignore them. I don't believe in ghosts and such but I'm not going to bust into the discussions saying such nonsense until I achieve omniscience.

However, they're not necessarily debunkers... just trolls.

Originally posted by BO XIAN
I wonder . . . perhaps it would be good to implement a fee scale . . .

1. NAYSAYING/DEBUNKING WITHIN THE FIRST 4 HOURS OF A POST COSTS 500 POINTS.

2. within the first 4-8 hours of a post--250 points.

3. within the first 8-12 hours of a post--150 points.

4. within the first 12-24 hours of a post--100 points

5. within the first 24-48 hours of a post--50 points

Bo, my friend. If this system was implemented, I'd have negative 5 million points by now. It's no secret the CIR and CIC are my favorites. With the plethora of misinformation occurring in those two forums and with new threads posted what seems like every five minutes, one cannot help to be a battle axe o' debunking.