Is the "War on Drugs" worth it?

reply to post by tgreen2103


Thanks for the Barry Cooper link. Quite entertaining and the Never Get Busted videos are cool. Gonna check out more of his stuff.

I think any civilized or educated person realizes that a war on a common habit or ideology is pointless and a waste of money.

Obviously there is a political demographic of people who believe every law is just, and there are those who believe plenty of laws are bogus. I'm not a political fence-rider, I don't use the term 'conservative' or 'liberal' but I am certain the war on drugs is only real to conservatives who believed Reagan... Bush was a cokehead for God's sake.

reply to post by NewWorldOver


Why, when the War on Drugs has caused a plummet in drug abuse?

War on drugs? What war on drugs...If there really was a war on drugs then your president would have let off those 2 border guards that shot the drug smuggler in the back. There is no war on drugs, well thats not true there is a war on low petty drug dealers but not the big traffickers.

· Operation Snow Cone - Parent Central American drug smuggling operation. Various operations under Operation Snow Cone include:
· Operation Watch Tower - Operation Watch Tower consists of secret radio beacons stationed at remote locations between Columbia and Panama. The beacons help CIA drug pilots fly from Central America to Panama at near-sea-level without being detected by high flying U.S. drug interdiction aircraft. Pilots of the drug flights home in on the low frequency signals emitted by the beacons to reach their destination at Albrook Army Airfield in Panama.

· Operation Toilet Seat - The CIA uses Boeing 727 and C-130 aircraft to haul drugs from Central and South America. The drugs are dumped out the rear ramps of the aircraft into waters offshore of the U.S. in waterproof containers. There the drugs are retrieved by boat and brought into the U.S.
Source

Yup seems like a war on drugs...maybe not. For more information look for CIA drug operations.

Originally posted by chromatico
Why, when the War on Drugs has caused a plummet in drug abuse?

Drug use only plummets in areas where a major connection is broken. This does happen. Sometimes the DEA really does break links.

Never the less the major operations always continue, sometimes with CIA operatives pushing it along. This has been uncovered more than once.

Drug use in this country has never at any point dropped... not even a little bit. The prices have simply gone up and the topic of drug abuse has just faded away... millions of everyday Americans continue to smoke pot on a regular basis.

Originally posted by chromatico
reply to post by sc2099

 

So people should just wasted out of their minds on all kinds of vile substances, neglect their kids, drive intoxicated out of their minds, and go insane? And all this should be legal?

It is entirely leagal to get wasted out of your minds, neglect your kids, and go insane. Legal substances like alcohol and certain prescription medications can do this.

Originally posted by chromatico
reply to post by tgreen2103

 

Well, with the tone you're taking it's obvious you're going to stick to your position no matter what, but I think we need to have something more than an intellectual echo chamber in here, so here goes.

The War on Drugs IS working...drug abuse is plummeting. Check my link below.

www.law.harvard.edu...

The lower "drug abuse" numbers come at a price. It is not worth paying billions of dollars incarcerating people just so a few less people out there are smoking weed or snorting coke.

reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint


A few? We're talking about millions! Do you have any idea how many lives drugs have ruined?

If someone already noted this, I apologize... but the war on drugs is working as 'they' want. More people in prison, prices on illegal drugs remain high as long as they remain illegal, and the corrupt sections of Gov't. that bring most of it in also make most of the money off of it. It's pretty cut and dry.

Should 'street drugs' be illegal? Still up for debate on some drugs, but marijuana is a no-brainer. It should be legal "all day" -- problem is big business... running our government... no way in hell they allow this extremely versatile product to get into the market and take $$ from their pockets.

BTW -- name me one other so-called 'drug' that does not need processed to enjoy (or "use", for you closed minded folks)... and produces seeds (not spores 'shroomheads ;-)... just name one...

... can't, eh? Then why is MJ classified as a drug with all the rest? Rightfully, it should be classified as a flower.

[edit on 3/18/2008 by RabbitChaser]

reply to post by chromatico


Do you realize how many lives alcohol has ruined?

Do you realize how many lives this War on Terror has ruined? Innocent lives, like innocent Middle Easterners who still have no power and hundreds of thousands that have died as collateral damage, those poor innocent families we are trying to help by instating our will on them and our ideals of how a nation should run (though Saddam was a piece of trash we put in power that did atrocious things). Unfortunate American families who have lost loved ones serving. More Unfortunate American families and soldiers who are on extended trips because our military is overextended and haven't seen their family much. Think about children 5 years old that have only seen their father for a couple weeks a year. A lot of soldiers signed up to defend this country, not kill people overseas in a war that violates the constitution by violating a signed treaty.

Do you realize how many lives are ruined of people who did not commit any act of violence or theft, who did not do anything but do something they enjoyed in their own home, but are now serving time in a jail system, with a ruined record, because some people think they know everything?

Do you know how many famous artists and writers did things that you think destroy lives whose work has enlightened and inspired the world?

Do you realize the only reason it is destroying so many lives is because it is illegal?


Get real. Are you out trying to reinstate alcohol prohibition? Are you trying to ban caffeine? How about all OTC medicines? What about pharma that contains drugs like coc aine? Are cigarettes on your no-no list? What about non-lean cuts of meat? Those are quite unhealthy and can kill by heartattacks? What about things like concentrated sugars used for candy and soda? Those are bad, give people a sugar-buzz, and are addictive.

So, where is the line? What can one do that is acceptable to you?

Apparently this discussion is personal for you. You know somebody that didn't have self control and abused something. I feel empathy for you. It is a sad affair. I have known people to abuse things too. But, just as a gun doesn't kill anyone, the drug is neither at fault.

An alcoholic needs counseling ... that doesn't mean the person who drinks responsibly should be prohibited. Just because a small percentage of dummies get behind the wheel intoxicated doesn't mean that alcohol should be illegal.

If you say, it creates violence, well so does poverty.

Transportation is related to more deaths and injuries than just about anything else worldwide. Should we ban all forms of transportation since it has ruined countless lives over the past 100 years? People steal and kill for vehicles, so they must be bad. They also steal and kill for diamonds, diamonds therefore must be illegal.



We cannot make laws based on the few who make bad decisions. We cannot let ourselves be controlled by corporate money and have laws passed that benefit the few, not the many ... that is a fascist dictatorship ... one that tells you what you are allowed to do and what you can and can't buy.

Research a bit, and you will find truth. A friend I have that died from an overdose of a 'cocktail' does not mean a responsible user should be prohibited. I know people who abuse their own prescribed medicines. I know people who take the prescriptions correctly and are still near zombies. I know people who have half a wine cooler and get wasted as well as people who can down a bottle of hard liquor and walk a straight line.

We cannot pass judgment because some people are irresponsible. That is not freedom and liberty for all. Those people need to be helped.

For all the money in the 'war on drugs', it would be much better spent by having accurate education on each chemical, accurate information on the pros and cons, rehabilitation and prevention centers for those who don't want to do it anymore or need a place to go before temptation gets the best of them, and other supportive methods to reduce addiction and abuse, instead of imprisonment which ends up making people worse, repeat offenders, and loss of respect for the system if they got in trouble doing a victimless crime in their home.

DWI/DUI is a crime, regardless if it is an OTC product, prescribed product, legal product, or illegal product. If you are intoxicated, you should not be behind the wheel.

But where does anyone get off thinking they have the right to tell someone what they can or can't do in their house as long as it isn't physical/sexual abuse upon another (without their consent, some people have a secret naughty side).

I don't drink, so should I have the right to tell you, you cannot drink in your house, in your yard? I have seen it destroy lives. I have tried to help people who didn't want help and end up doing regrettable things, or losing loved ones because of alcohol abuse ... does that mean the person who has a single glass of wine with dinner ever day should be banned from this? It is not different at all. Alcohol is harmful, can lead to violence, destroy organs, kill from overdose, and loads of other things if done irresponsibly. But educate and people learn to be more responsible with it.

I have seen a lot of people's lives get ruined by going to jail while doing something, and these people would have never harmed anyone, they went to work on time everyday, even volunteered for overtime regularly, and were model citizens with a private secret. How in the world could anyone justify ruining the life of a hard working citizen that pays their bills on time and has an impeccable attendance record at their job?

It is all fair unless it is your rights are being taken away, or it is someone you know that has been negatively affected by a corrupt law.

We all know what kind of criminals 80 year old cancer patients can be trying to soothe their pain, or that person serving your hamburger for 12 grand a year doesn't need an escape at the end of the day to keep going through the struggle and serve you with a smile.

Boy, that Mary Ann from Giligan's Island was really hurting so many people. Willie Nelson is such a troublemaker by having a bio-diesel plant to try and lessen America's dependence on foreign oil, supporting our troops, raising money for farmers, helping animals ...


What a croc this anti-drug crap is.

I am clean, sober, and I can see the hypocrisy of it all. You really want to get me wound up, ban white chocolate, then you have a real fight on your hands!!!



The only reason they are illegal is because alphabets and pharma make loads of money that way. It doesn't benefit society. There are places these things are legal, and people are responsible with it. The tourists not-so-much, but the tourists would go away if it wasn't such a rare policy to have it not be a crime.


The propaganda machine has been in the schools for a long time, I don't expect a lot of people to change their minds from decades of repeated lies. I also can respectfully disagree with someone who had a personal life negative experience that cannot separate the unique situation from the general population. If Joe Schmo chokes on a pecan, that doesn't mean pecans are evil, it means he needs to pace himself better or if allergic, stay away from it and read labels.

Some great posts.

To answer the original OP. No, the war on drugs is not worth it.

Unless of course you own a company which contracts to states to run prisons. Prison contracters make a killing

My sister was a drug addict; coc aine. She got busted, she went to jail. She used again, got busted again and went to prison for three years. For being a drug addict. After prison she was deported from the US for having a felony. Her three years in prison didn't do a damn thing to help her beat the addiction and when she got to Switzerland she was still an addict and soon began to use again.
Switzerland however didn't send her to jail, instead she went to rehab in the mountains for a year, was supported when she got out with intensive counselling, was helped to get on her feet financially and is now a productive, employed member of society. When her addiction was finally treated as the disease that it is she got better.

The war should be against the disease of addiction not the use of drugs. Of course if you begin to view and treat addicition as a disease and act accordingly, you'd have to address the addiction to alcohol and tobacco as well. Since those industires have well paid lobbyists in DC the root of the problem will never be addressed ( In the USA anyway).

Since mankind first started living in communities, farming and experimenting they have used mind altering substances in one form or another, for different reasons; recreational, spiritual, medicinal etc.
It is nothing new and has occured in nearly every single society / culture in one form or another throughout history in every part of the world.

And one thing has certainly been consistent; prohibition has never worked.

Why we would expect the current "war on drugs" to be a success is beyond me.

Perhaps we should ask:
"Who benefit's from the current war on drug's?"
"What practical purpose does it serve?"
"On what moral ground is current drug policy based on?".

I do not advocate the use of illicit substances.
I do not detail any illegal acts or practices etc.

I just question the moral and legal validity of prohibition within a "free" society.
I also question the benefits of prohibition in today's society.
I also question the benefits to opponents of our society which prohibiion is funding.

reply to post by FreeThinkerIdealist


Great post FreeThinkerIdealist, one of the best I've ever read on the topic


Goodonya

Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

stopthedrugwar