Dolphin rescues stranded whales

Originally posted by TimeTracker

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
reply to post by Silenceisall

 

I think adaptation on that scale would take centuries if not longer.

If they evolved to walk the earth, I think the human race would be in trouble. They'd probably be smart enough to see us as the threat we are...

Actually it's been proven that dolphins and whales evolved from wolf like creatures and eventually went into the water and developed fins.
So in terms of evolution they've been there done that.
Maybe manipulating (things) with your hands is not such a big deal as far as intelligence....hmmmmm?

This is the thing i have always found strange, they came out of the water....took a look around, and thought...no way am i staying here in this mess....so went home.
if we are so smart why didn`t we do that?

Flipper taking Mommy and child out to open ocean waters is good enough for me. It is doubtful we will have much more on this thread. I imagine if you google dolphin intelligence you may get some more extended data.

Maybe people will start realising the truth about what people on this planet call whales and dolphins.

I believe the word is sentience ?

Here's another little tidbit:

Dolphins' brains have evolved so the right and left sides take turns sleeping, presumably to watch out for predators. So they're always awake and sometimes partially asleep. Pretty adaptive, if you ask me. But why stop there? I'm sure dolphins dream as well. And if dreaming and being awake is indistinguishable to the brain, then essentially they can exist in two states of consciousness at once. Two states that we know of, anyway.

Dolphins' brains are just as large as our own, but there's really no reason for them to be given their environment and the complexity of their lives compared to ours. So the question is, what are they using all those brains for?

Originally posted by DeadAlready
Dolphins' brains have evolved so the right and left sides take turns sleeping, presumably to watch out for predators. So they're always awake and sometimes partially asleep. Pretty adaptive, if you ask me. But why stop there? I'm sure dolphins dream as well. And if dreaming and being awake is indistinguishable to the brain, then essentially they can exist in two states of consciousness at once.

wow really? That's amazing! Dreaming at the same time as being 'awake'. That's a mind-expanding idea. I can only imagine with my puny human mind what that might be like! Thanks for adding that, that's really interesting

And what do we do ???
we will kill them all eventually ...


Stop eating MEAT and killing other beeings

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

Originally posted by Beachcoma
reply to post by Silenceisall

 

the third most intelligent creature on the planet had no success earlier

Wales are the third?

Where do primates and elephants fall in?

Depends on how you measure. (from various sources)

By number of neurons (approximate)
Name ............Neurons
Human............10e11
Octopus..........10e8
Rat...........2.1x10e7
Frog..........1.6x10e7
Roach.............10e6
Fruit fly............10e5
Ant.................10e4
Sea slug..........10e3
nematode........10e2
Trichoplax.........0 (*)

(*) Interesting 'creature', essentially a blob of protoplasm

By average brain weight (in grams)
sperm whale..............7800
killer whale................5620
elephant...................4783
humpback whale.........4675
gray whale................4317
bowhead whale.........2738
pilot whale................2670
dolphin.....................1600

Human......................1400
# early Man 850-1000

camel
giraffe
leopard seal
soccer fans
horse
polar bear
cow
chimpanzee
orangutan
sea lion
newborn human
lion
tiger
pig
sheep
rhesus monkey
aardvark
dog
shark (C.Car)
cat
squirrel monkey
rabbit
hamster
platypus
alligator
opossum
anteater


[edit on 13-3-2008 by Badge01]

reply to post by Badge01

Good post, lot of data.Particulary liked this one:

soccer fans

I wonder how their brains were weighted? Any soccer fan dissapered lately?
And since not only dolphins,but even camel has a bigger ratio in this list, i think that we got the evolution theory wrong. After all, camel appeared before soccer fan species....

reply to post by Badge01


nice post! Do you have neuron-data on whales/dolphins at hand?

Also: In comparison to body size the dolphin would then rank brainier than the human, wouldnt it?

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by Badge01

 

nice post! Do you have neuron-data on whales/dolphins at hand?

Also: In comparison to body size the dolphin would then rank brainier than the human, wouldnt it?

Actually I made an error. It is just by the weight of the brain, irrespective of the size of the animal:

Corrected:

By average brain weight in grams
sperm whale..............7800
killer whale................5620
elephant...................4783
humpback whale........4675
gray whale................4317
bowhead whale.........2738
pilot whale................2670
dolphin.....................1600

Human......................1400
# early Man ......850-1000

Sorry 'bout that. It's early.





[edit on 13-3-2008 by Badge01]

reply to post by Badge01


Now we´d need a similar list compared to body-size.


(sorry for being so lazy)

[edit on 13-3-2008 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by kosmicjack
I like the story as well because it shows that Human intelligence isn't the only intelligence of merit. Often we are too arrogant to see the value and beauty of other species on this planet.

I disagree, I think it is ignorance, not arrogance.
or at the very least, perhaps arrogance borne from ignorance.

The question of how intelligent dolphins are has always intrigued me. They don't have the correct digits and opposable thumbs to make things, but then again, they have adapted themselves perfectly to their environment. While man has been adapting his environment to him, the dolphin has been adapting to his environment.

Dolphins means of communication is for example could well be more effective than ours, they can talk to each other while much further away than we can. We can't understand what dolphins are saying when they communicate with each other, for all we know they could be sending large amounts of information in short bursts of sound.

Either way, dolphins seem to be happy to help other species for nothing in return, while we kill them and keep them captive for our amusement.

Originally posted by mrmanuva
Dolphins means of communication is for example could well be more effective than ours, they can talk to each other while much further away than we can.

Um.. no they can't.
telephones, internet and satellite.

Natural talk maybe, but they live in water.. thats a distinct sound based advantage.

Apples and oranges.

Originally posted by mrmanuva
We can't understand what dolphins are saying when they communicate with each other, for all we know they could be sending large amounts of information in short bursts of sound.

You mean like we do? (besides, thats pretty much a given)

There is no need to speculate, we know volumes about what dolphins are "saying". You should look up some recent dolphin research, you'd be surprised what we "know", you seem to be lacking in that area.

No offense, but if you are that interested, read up on it.

Originally posted by mrmanuva
Either way, dolphins seem to be happy to help other species for nothing in return

Listen, I love dolphins too, but don't sell humanity short so fast.
There are millions of people who do selfless acts for others for nothing in return.

It always seems that anytime anyone starts postulating their opinions about humanity all they ever attribute to humans is the "bad". Give dolphins 4 fingers and a thumb, give then finite resources in specific areas and I am sure that in a few thousand years they'd figure out how to make a club.

Originally posted by mrmanuva
we kill them and keep them captive for our amusement.

"We" don't kill them, a select group does.

"I" don't have a dolphin in my pool, but having a few at Seaworld does WONDERS for bringing attention to the need to protect them.
The "captive" part is misleading...


I know about 2 people who are real wastes of human tissue, I also know about 200 others who are just really awesome.
We should leave the 'woe is earth' and 'people suck' comments in the correct threads, comparing peole to dolphins isn't valid.


Yes, dolphins are majestic and magnificent.. for aquatic mammals.

reply to post by gormly


For a start, we don't convey huge amounts in a short burst of sound. What I was getting at is the whistles that only last a few seconds that dolphins send out. A few seconds is enough to say a few words for us, which is not remotely what I would call a lot of information. I have researched plenty about this, so yes offence is taken, seeing as you made assumptions based on extremely limited information. Another one of mans great traits. There are studies but none are conclusive enough, it would obviously take decades of study on a large scale to really know what is going on.

You can bring in phones etc if you want, but im talking about natural ability. If someone is kicking you on the floor, your only hope is to shout. Someone attacking you doesnt generally give you the oppurtunity to call someone and then wait for them to arrive. Dolphins however can call for help or whatever to dolphins far further away with their natural communication ability.

Put joe public with no tools in any remotely harsh environment and hes in serious trouble. Humans are slow, weak, have poor stamina, have no natural means of camouflage, poor natural communication range etc. The point being, dolphins have adapted so well to their environment, would they even have any use for all the crap we do. There are plenty of people who say we are far more intelligent than dolphins, but they base this purely on the things man has achieved, this may be true, but it may also not be.

I won't even get into the whole not giving man enough credit and only a select few rubbish. That is the escape route for the 99% of the populous who are happy to sit around consuming and never do anything to stop anything that they know is bad. Humans can barely even be bothered to stand up for themselves, let alone other humans or animals.

[edit on 13-3-2008 by mrmanuva]

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by Badge01

 

Now we´d need a similar list compared to body-size.

Can't, size among the species is too variable. Humans range from 120lbs to 800lbs, skewing the ratio.

Might be worth measuring the comparative percentage of the brain that's devoted to the cerebellum (attention and the processing of language, music,); and the cerebral functions in the cerebrum.

Here's a few thoughts on what animal intelligence is based upon:

AI

Example percentage comparison:
Cerebral Cortex - proportion by Volume (%)
Rat 31
Human 77

What a great news story! These are such beautiful, intelligent creatures.

Originally posted by jojoKnowsBest

I’ve heard sonar can screw with cetaceans navigation abilities and could be a possible explanation for the beaching.

I've heard this too. It can be easy to forget that the oceanic habitat is actually 2/3 of the earth's surface: we land-dwellers are a minority!

If they evolve fingers and legs they might end up the dominant species.

Whales used to be land mammals: they have a vestigal pelvis, and you don't have a pelvis unless you have legs. They evolved out of the ocean, came up on land, and then decided they liked the water better after all. I believe their closest relatives on land are the hippos.

The oldest fossil whales are often grouped together, largely for convenience, in a taxon known as the archaeocetes. Archaeocetes show several features that modern whales lack. Their teeth, like those of most land mammals, still show differentiation into several types. (Modern whales either lack teeth, or have teeth that are all virtually identical in shape and size). Archaeocetes also had nostrils near the tip of the nose, like land mammals, rather than a blowhole on the top of the head. Some retained substantial hind limbs that would have been visible outside the animal's body; in the earliest archaeocetes, these limbs and the pelvis were attached to the vertebrae by a sacral joint, but in later ones the limbs and pelvis were not attached to the rest of the skeleton.

source: www.ucmp.berkeley.edu...

Originally posted by DimensionalDetective
What, beautiful, fascinating creatures they are. I don't think it's a stretch at all to call them as smart or smarter than humans.

As it turns out, whales and dolphins have certain brain structures such as "spindle neurons" that were previously thought to be exclusively characteristic of humans and great apes.

A new study published online November 27, 2006 in The Anatomical Record, the official journal of the American Association of Anatomists, compared a humpback whale brain with brains from several other cetacean species and found the presence of a certain type of neuron cell that is also found in humans. This suggests that certain cetaceans and hominids may have evolved side by side.

source: www.sciencedaily.com...



reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi


right on.


[edit on 13-3-2008 by America Jones]

whales are beaching theselves because of the earth's natural magnetic shift which is happening right now if you research it the whales and dolphins were the highest intelligence on this planet untill we got here

Nice.

Dolphins.

I saw a documentary about 4 years ago about dolphins. It followed a group of young male dolphins who corraled females and raped them and killed the young.

Needless to say, my impression of them has been tainted somewhat.

Apologies as I can't remember the name of the documentary but there is a bit here.

I still like the buggers but sleep with one eye open folks

edit: spelling: dicumentary = documentary. I can't ever recall watching a dicumentary!

[edit on 13/3/2008 by skibtz]

There's an evolutionary theory that suggests that at a major point in human development, humans evolved as aquatic creatures (the famous Aquatic Ape theory). And, during this time, human brains developed greatly from the omega-3 fatty acids gained by eating fish and other aquatic creatures. This is also where we supposedly developed the hairless bodies that we're sporting now.

And it is supposed that during this evolutionary period, we thrived because of the cohabitation with dolphins. They served as protectors of early humans from aquatic predators. I'm not sure what the benefit was for the dolphins, if any, but it seems to me that they want to keep cohabitating.

Anyway, I believe that if it weren't for dolphins, humans would be a thing of the past.