Luke 19 verse 27 my favourite verse!

Luke 19 verse 27 my favourite verse in the entire bible this is Jesus speaking, he says “but bring those enemies of mine who didn't want me to reign over them here, and kill them before me.'" This is Jesus the prince of peace which is meant to bring peace on earth and good will toward man commanding that anyone who doesn’t believe in him or doesn’t want him to rule over them should be killed.

That’s right, Jesus the son of god demanding that all none Christians should be slain. The standard response is that isn’t Jesus speaking as Jesus, this is Jesus speaking as the noblemen – it’s part of a parable. The reason I love this scripture is because it really doesn’t matter if it’s parable or not, you see every single interpretation I have ever read – the parable of talents or the parable of the pounds are basically the same story says that the nobleman represents god.

So you either have Jesus speaking as Jesus outside of the parable telling you to slay all none believers or you have Jesus speaking as god through the parable telling you to slay all none believers – it doesn’t matter if it’s a parable or not this is Jesus telling you to kill everybody who doesn’t believe in him.

Now Christians aren’t out there currently slitting the throats of atheists and agnostics thank goodness so they must think it means something else, if Jesus doesn’t literally mean go out and kill anyone who wont let him rain over them then what does he mean?

[edit on 12-3-2008 by andre18]

This is a scary mentality indeed.
I was just in a chat room where a Jewish lady said that by law she had the right to stone gentiles. - Just aint so.

She spoke out of desperation and fear at how she feels Jews are typically attacked.
It seems Christians and others do the same.

If this type of mentality prevails we wont have to worry about which religion is right...Jews, Muslims, & Christians will kill each other off as the only part they seem to grasp from their religion is the heresy part of it which is not even true.

Oh well, to each there own - I dont want any part of it.

Peace

dAlen

Fear not, us "Christians" have no intention of killing anyone regardless of your belief systems.

I would however delight in bringing you before the cross of Christ and observing your "death" (to sin) so that you may be born again in Christ - Get it?

[edit on 12-3-2008 by KMFNWO]

Actually it's a line from a parable Jesus is telling as he enters Jericho. It's not Jesus demanding slaughter, but instead the words of a tyrant king in the story being told, who is demanding the people who did not want him to rule be put to death.

Unfortunately I'm unable to see what the point of this parable is at all.

Originally posted by andre18
That’s right, Jesus the son of god demanding that all none Christians should be slain...

...So you either have Jesus speaking as Jesus outside of the parable telling you to slay all none believers or you have Jesus speaking as god through the parable telling you to slay all none believers

Um... Context?

At least you understood it was a parable. Jesus is using a parable to describe this age. In other words, it was showing how Jesus was not going to 'set up the kingdom' right then and there like the Jews thought but that we would all be assigned tasks and assignments throughout our lives during this age. When He eventually returns, then all will be judged.

The faithful/believer and unfaithful/unbeliever will then be separated and judged accordingly. The goats and sheep judgment? The wheat and tare judgment? Ring a bell? All the same thing. No one is supposed to go around killing anyone for we are not 'the king' but the 'servant' as the parable clearly states. Furthermore, this happens at 'the end of the age' and not during 'the king's' absence.

This is why I get so stumped sometimes. People mock the faith and then haven't a clue as to what they are talking about.

You don't know how to decipher the bible man. When he says bring them and kill them, he meant kill them with my teachings and love. it's not literal.

And let's add this for a quick study in hermeneutics:

If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town.

Matthew 10:14
Mark 6:11

You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you...

Matthew 5:43-44

Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

Luke 6:37

This coupled with my above explanation of the parable should leave no doubt (but why do I see arguments ahead nonetheless?).

Originally posted by andre18
Look 19 verse 27 my favourite verse in the entire bible this is Jesus speaking, he says “but bring those enemies of mine who didn't want me to reign over them here, and kill them before me.'" This is Jesus the prince of peace which is meant to bring peace on earth and good will toward man commanding that anyone who doesn’t believe in him or doesn’t want him to rule over them should be killed.

That’s right, Jesus the son of god demanding that all none Christians should be slain. The standard response is that isn’t Jesus speaking as Jesus, this is Jesus speaking as the noblemen – it’s part of a parable. The reason I love this scripture is because it really doesn’t matter if it’s parable or not, you see every single interpretation I have ever read – the parable of talents or the parable of the pounds are basically the same story says that the nobleman represents god.

So you either have Jesus speaking as Jesus outside of the parable telling you to slay all none believers or you have Jesus speaking as god through the parable telling you to slay all none believers – it doesn’t matter if it’s a parable or not this is Jesus telling you to kill everybody who doesn’t believe in him.

Now Christians aren’t out there currently slitting the throats of atheists and agnostics thank goodness so they must think it means something else, if Jesus doesn’t literally mean go out and kill anyone who wont let him rain over them then what does he mean?


[edit on 12-3-2008 by andre18]

Which bible do you use? What religion are you?

Only reason I ask is because 1 it matters and 2 you mentioned a few things I'm curious about... God, Jesus and Holy spirit are one, do you agree? If so why and if not why too please... Thank you..

An interesting topic and spot on discussion...



[edit on 12-3-2008 by MemoryShock]

reply to post by dAlen


dAlen, I ask that you do not take this the wrong way but I must ask regardless. You have made many comments concerning being a former Christian, heavily involved in the church or ministry (I cannot recall- I don't stalk you. Promise!), and even stated you had studied Christian apologetics. This makes me have to ask how you could not have understood the parable and context?

Previously I recall you citing Ecclesiastes as evidence the Jews did not believe in the afterlife and seemed to be unaware of the context of Solomon's lamentations about the 'meaninglessness' of life. So, I thought I'd ask how you could have agreed with the OP's misrepresentation of this passage.

Which bible do you use? What religion are you?

Only reason I ask is because 1 it matters and 2 you mentioned a few things I'm curious about... God, Jesus and Holy spirit are one, do you agree? If so why and if not why too please... Thank you..

I'm an atheist....does it matter becuase what ever version it is, it will say the same basic thing...agree with what "God, Jesus and Holy spirit" no I don't believe in god.

[edit on 12-3-2008 by andre18]

And just thought I'd ask this since having three out of the ten comments on this thread wasn't nearly enough of a spam fest for me:

What is the conspiracy?

That Christians aren't out killing unbelievers but we should be?

A fascinating thread. I would have thought I would have remembered such a seemingly atypical comment in the scriptures. But with the crusades and JP1 getting taken out with digitoxin (presumably) who knows.
Seems a 180 for any previous teaching.

reply to post by AshleyD


The conspiracy is do to with the fact that the bible advocates the act of murdering people who don’t share the same beliefs as Christians….

But the truth is the New Testament doesn't promote violence. So the real conspiracy is non-believers trying to mis-quote and corrupt the Bible for nefarious reasons.




I will give you the text from Complete Jewish Bible.

Luke 19:1-28

Yeshua entered Yericho and was passing through, when a man named Zakkai appeared who was a chief tax-collector and a wealthy man. He was trying to see who Yeshua was; but, being short, he couldn't, because of the crowd. So he ran on ahead and climbed a fig tree in order to see him, for Yeshua was about to pass that way. When he came to the place, he looked up and said to him, "Zakkai! Hurry! Come down, because I have to stay at your house today!" He climbed down as fast as he could and welcomed Yeshua joyfully. Everyone who saw it began muttering, "He has gone to be the house-guest of a sinner." But Zakkai stood there and said to the Lord, "Here, Lord, I am giving half of all I own to the poor, and if I have cheated anyone, I will pay him back four times as much." Yeshua said to him, "Today salvation has come to this house, inasmuch as this man too is a son of Avraham. For the Son of Man came to seek and save what was lost."

While they were listening to this, Yeshua went on to tell a parable, because he was near Yerushalayim, and the people supposed that the Kingdom of God was about to appear at any moment. Therefore he said, "A nobleman went to the country far away to have himself crowned king and then return. Calling ten of his servants, he gave them ten manim [a maneh is about three months' wages] and said to them, 'Do business with this while I'm away.' But his countrymen hated him, and they sent a delegation after him to say, 'We don't want this man to rule over us.'

"However, he returned, having been made king, and sent for the servants to whom he had given the money, to find out what each one had earned in his business dealings. The first one came in and said, 'Sir, your maneh has earned ten more manim.' 'Excellent!' he said to him. 'You are a good servant. Because you have been trustworthy in a small matter, I am putting you in charge of ten towns.' The second one came and said, 'Sir, your maneh has earned five more manim' and to this one he said, 'You be in charge of five towns.'

Then another one came and said, 'Sir, here is your maneh, I kept it hidden in a piece of cloth, because I was afraid of you -- you take out what you didn't put in, and you harvest what you didn't plant.' To him the master said, 'You wicked servant! I will judge you by your own words! So you knew, did you, that I was a severe man, taking out what I didn't put in and harvesting what I didn't plant? Then why didn't you put my money in the bank? Then, when I returned, I would have gotten it back with interest!' To those standing he said, 'Take the maneh from him and give it to the one with ten manim.' They said to him, 'Sir, he already has ten manim!' But the master answered, 'I tell you, everyone who has something will be given more; but from anyone who has nothing, even what he does have will be taken away. However, as for these enemies of mine who did not want me to be their king, bring them here and execute them in my prescence!'"

After saying this, Yeshua went on and began the ascent to Yerushalayim.

(I own this and typed it out, if you find an online copy, good. I can type out other quotes if people want a comparison, since this was translated from the ancient Greek original by a Messianic Jew - David H. Stern)


Context is everything. Yeshua uses the parable to speak of riches in heaven and those who don't wish to live under Jesus will not share in these riches and shall not live in His grace. For a religious person, to be kept from heaven is eternal death opposed to a life in heaven. To not trust in your King means you cannot live in His Kingdom. It also relates to being rich in spirit, and thus being given more than you could ask for, but those who have nothing but cynicism and disdain in their heart will have nothing, not even the false riches which they erroneously admire.



Though, there is little use to argue past this, since those who wish to believe, will; and those who wish to not believe shall do so.



Rarely will a discussion between a Christian, Muslim, Jewish, atheist, agnostic, pagan, satanist come to one switching sides/beliefs. Usually these are set in stone, and our best hope is for peaceful, intelligent, and respectful discussion with an open mind to each others points and counter-points.

reply to post by andre18


Let me ask you something (and try to answer to yourself as honestly as you can): if these words that you quote were "news", a statement from an event that you were reporting - would you have dared to report them as you did here...? Would you have dared to quote Jesus as you did here?

How do you think any radio or TV station or even the humblest local newspaper would rate the accuracy and veracity of your report?
Do you think you would be safe from a libel suit? ; )

I am assuming this chapter probably hasn't been your "favourite" for a very long time... And if you like the thought that Jesus spoke those words as if it were his, advocating "killing", it's certainly not going to be your favourite for long.

Here's the beginning of the chapter (which apparently has been omitted in your version of the Bible? ; )), providing the framework AKA context - which is considered the bare essentials in any type of story-telling or reporting:


The crowd was still listening to Jesus as he was getting close to Jerusalem. Many of them thought that God's kingdom would soon appear, 12 and Jesus told them this story:

(FOLLOWS THE STORY)


And here's the end of the chapter:


The king replied, “Those who have something will be given more. But everything will be taken away from those who don't have anything. 27 Now bring me the enemies who didn't want me to be their king. Kill them while I watch!”


I am guessing you're not an aspiring reporter, are you?










[edit on 12-3-2008 by Vanitas]

Is there any christian that thinks when Jesus returns he is NOT going to destroy non-believers? Those who do NOT follow him, nor keep the commandments will die in the 2nd death.

for goodness sake, this is taken out of context.

Parable of ten pounds: the kingdom postponed

It is a parable about a 'nobleman' and the nobleman words are recounted. It is what the 'nobleman' states.

For the Son of man came to seek and to save that which was lost. 19:11And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they supposed that the kingdom of God was immediately to appear.

19:12He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country, to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. 19:13And he called ten servants of his, and gave them ten pounds, and said unto them, Trade ye herewith till I come. 19:14But his citizens hated him, and sent an ambassage after him, saying, We will not that this man reign over us. 19:15And it came to pass, when he was come back again, having received the kingdom, that he commanded these servants, unto whom he had given the money, to be called to him, that he might know what they had gained by trading. 19:16And the first came before him, saying, Lord, thy pound hath made ten pounds more. 19:17And he said unto him, Well done, thou good servant: because thou wast found faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities. 19:18And the second came, saying, Thy pound, Lord, hath made five pounds. 19:19And he said unto him also, Be thou also over five cities. 19:20And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I kept laid up in a napkin: 19:21for I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that which thou layedst not down, and reapest that which thou didst not sow. 19:22He saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I am an austere man, taking up that which I laid not down, and reaping that which I did not sow; 19:23then wherefore gavest thou not my money into the bank, and I at my coming should have required it with interest? 19:24And he said unto them that stood by, Take away from him the pound, and give it unto him that hath the ten pounds. 19:25And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds. 19:26I say unto you, that unto every one that hath shall be given; but from him that hath not, even that which he hath shall be taken away from him. 19:27But these mine enemies, that would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me

St Luke 19:9-27

end of parable

This parable relates to the 'people who considered themselves worthy; those people judged Jesus when he was a guest of Zac-chae us (those righteous people considered Zac-chae us to be a sinner and not worthy)

So, this parable tells those with faith not to become too confident especially when judging another.

Originally posted by witnessrevthe
Is there any christian that thinks when Jesus returns he is NOT going to destroy non-believers? Those who do NOT follow him, nor keep the commandments will die in the 2nd death.

Why not? I for one would like him to destroy those non-believers just to get em' off my back. :bash: